Quote from: SadieBlake on March 09, 2019, 07:34:53 AM
I was able to orgasm pre-op right up to the night before my surgery, I needed some Viagra to be able to stay erect for penetrative sex, however orgasm didn't depend on that. My T was close to zero, around 12-18 ng/dl.

But how did you keep your libido going?  I can look at the best porn (or read it, I was always more girly even in that, and preferred written erotica for the pics in my mind), and I feel nothing, I am more interested in the makeup of the girls than in anything else going on.  Porn has become boring to me, P rather watch a film with real action in it!

As long as I don't get that libido back, all the wonderful descriptions of what one can do have no value for me!

Quote from: Dietlind on March 07, 2019, 04:12:28 PM
My endo told me that he plans to adjust my estrogen and testosterone levels to typical female levels.  He said hew wants to do that about 6 weeks after my orchi, to make sure that everything in my body has "normalized".
I know that spiro killed any kind of libido in me.  Now that all the spiro effects have let my body, I think that I can identify ever so little desire to do something with my sexuality.  I have to see how that develops, because i just started to take double amounts of estrogen.  I wonder if high level of estrogen can also be positive for ones libido?

From what I've read and discussed with my Endo everybody has receptors for Estrogen and Testosterone.  Heavy on one and light on the other the male / female thing.   However if you zero out one (or the other) your going to have an abnormal balance.  A goofed up male / female thing.  Its likely to have several different effects but I think the short version is that having low to no Estrogen or Testosterone will make your libido crash.  And this appears to be the same be you CIS Male or Female and of course anyone transgender. 

The problem of low libido being connected to low estrogen in men is the focus of some very interesting medical papers that are 2017, 2018, 2019  So this is somewhat new but worth reading and talking to your doctor about.  I'm sure that CIS Males are just as freaked out about taking ANY estrogen as M2F folks are about having anything other then 0 testosterone.  The levels of Testosterone and Estrogen after an orchiectomy or removal of ovaries is abnormally low.  The addrenal glands just don't produce enough.  Hopefully some post Orchie folks can report real world levels but everything I read says that addrenal glands produce only a small fraction of the hormones you need. 

I can personally report that working for a balance has turned my less then zero sex drive into a pretty good one.  Its a little shocking after years of having none but its great. Truly a part of life you should not discard without a fight.

Your results may vary but its worth checking out.  I think...

Quote from: Dietlind on March 09, 2019, 05:15:07 PM
But how did you keep your libido going?  I can look at the best porn (or read it, I was always more girly even in that, and preferred written erotica for the pics in my mind), and I feel nothing, I am more interested in the makeup of the girls than in anything else going on.  Porn has become boring to me, P rather watch a film with real action in it!

As long as I don't get that libido back, all the wonderful descriptions of what one can do have no value for me!

I had the same reaction to adult material.  Written or video "porn" just seemed at best uninteresting at worst it put me off.  Fiddling with my mix to have a non zero level was like turning on a switch.  There are a lot of porn like topics that put me off but a good read or something tasteful in video can get me very much in the mood!  And its been a huge AH HAH for my Endo and therapist who have heard me complain yearly of zero libido.

Quote from: JanePlain on March 14, 2019, 10:59:07 AM
From what I've read and discussed with my Endo everybody has receptors for Estrogen and Testosterone.  Heavy on one and light on the other the male / female thing.   However if you zero out one (or the other) your going to have an abnormal balance.  A goofed up male / female thing.  Its likely to have several different effects but I think the short version is that having low to no Estrogen or Testosterone will make your libido crash.  And this appears to be the same be you CIS Male or Female and of course anyone transgender. 

The problem of low libido being connected to low estrogen in men is the focus of some very interesting medical papers that are 2017, 2018, 2019  So this is somewhat new but worth reading and talking to your doctor about.  I'm sure that CIS Males are just as freaked out about taking ANY estrogen as M2F folks are about having anything other then 0 testosterone.  The levels of Testosterone and Estrogen after an orchiectomy or removal of ovaries is abnormally low.  The addrenal glands just don't produce enough.  Hopefully some post Orchie folks can report real world levels but everything I read says that addrenal glands produce only a small fraction of the hormones you need. 

I can personally report that working for a balance has turned my less then zero sex drive into a pretty good one.  Its a little shocking after years of having none but its great. Truly a part of life you should not discard without a fight.

Your results may vary but its worth checking out.  I think...

I just had an orchiectomy in January. I was pelleted a week ago and will be having my T and E levels checked in three weeks. I wanted to give at least a month after the orchiectomy for my T level to balance out, but also wanted to see what my max E levels looked like.

I suspect that my E isn't as high as I'd like it to be. My low end E level (at the end of a three month cycle) was 90 pg/mL, which is fine. But I'm thinking that my high end may only be 150-175 pg/mL, and that's not enough for full puberty levels.

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Quote from: JanePlain on March 14, 2019, 10:59:07 AM
I'm sure that CIS Males are just as freaked out about taking ANY estrogen as M2F folks are about having anything other then 0 testosterone. 

I've been on hormones almost 10 years now and I've had to fight the Zero T crowd the whole way - it was mostly the medical professionals who pushed it, due to the screaming of uneducated trans women. I still don't understand how anyone thinks that zero T is a good idea as it's perfectly clear that cis people have a balance, whether they are male or female. I've also learnt that the HRT protocols pushed by most doctors are based on old and bad science. Dropping the antiandrogen from my protocol was the most beneficial thing I've done - the result is an adequate E level that suppresses gonadal T. Now I just have to deal with the legacy of taking it - a meningioma.

And as much as some in the trans community like to complain about the state of medical care, they themselves are part of the problem. "I've been on hormones for 2 weeks and nothing has happened, I demand something to drop my T level!" and similar are things I've heard.. So many trans people claim to understand what HRT will do to/for them, but really have no idea beyond boobs, hips and nicer skin.. There's a whole lot more to it than that.

Hi PurplePelican,

I hope it is benign.

I agree, I supplement with T and am shooting for 36-40 ng/dl as per my doctor. I feel so much better with some T in the system. I have plenty of E in my system and the T is needed.

I was on the 0 T band wagon for a time and it took two MD's and time to convince me I was wrong.

Quote from: Rachel on March 14, 2019, 06:44:44 PM
Hi PurplePelican,

I hope it is benign.

I agree, I supplement with T and am shooting for 36-40 ng/dl as per my doctor. I feel so much better with some T in the system. I have plenty of E in my system and the T is needed.

I was on the 0 T band wagon for a time and it took two MD's and time to convince me I was wrong.

This is pretty great that you have doctors who are tuned in on this.  I think there is a problem with HRT in general terms since that horribly set up test to see if estrogen therapy for women in menopause was safe.  Having the women be all ages (like some in menopause for 20+?? years.  And in addition being given only horse estrogen in fairly large doses.  What did they expect to happen?  I liken it to feeding a Model T ford Nitro Methane dragster fuel and being surprised the engine blows up.

I also find it incredible they didn't have any human (identical) hormones in the test to see if maybe giving people equine hormones was such a great idea. 

I'm ranting now but it does seem rather obvious that basing TS people's hormone levels on what is normally seen in CIS folks should be the norm.  And also of course that having zero libido ought to be seen as a strong indication that something is wrong.  The one thing I think it proves is how important transition is if people are willing to do something that regularly results in zero libido. 

My hormone physician freaked out when my T dropped to 8. She wanted me to skip doses to try and bring it back to cis-female range of 15-75. I was surprised at her reaction due to the fact that she's only once, at the one month mark, ordered blood tests. I've had them done three times from three different doctors offices. I'll have them checked again in a few weeks.

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Hi StacyR:  Yes indeed!  8 (US? levels) is really low.  If this were me I would ask about doing a small amount of a topical like androgel.  Its not great for getting testosterone to high male levels but it ought to be able to get to comfortable female range.  And the change when you have at least something close is in my experience remarkable.

Quote from: JanePlain on March 16, 2019, 03:05:12 AM
Hi StacyR:  Yes indeed!  8 (US? levels) is really low.  If this were me I would ask about doing a small amount of a topical like androgel.  Its not great for getting testosterone to high male levels but it ought to be able to get to comfortable female range.  And the change when you have at least something close is in my experience remarkable.

Yes, 8 ng/dL. I've since had an orchiectomy so I wanted to wait for my T to level off before testing again. I haven't seen my max E level. One doctor tested total E, not E2 when it was max level, so I don't know what it tops out at.

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Quote from: StacyRenee on March 16, 2019, 06:57:28 PM
Yes, 8 ng/dL. I've since had an orchiectomy so I wanted to wait for my T to level off before testing again. I haven't seen my max E level. One doctor tested total E, not E2 when it was max level, so I don't know what it tops out at.

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Congrats on your surgery!  Hopefully your fully recovered? It certainly makes HRT simple and you don't have to deal with the side effects that seem to be common with T Blockers.

I think it's important to remember that while hormones are a large factor in libido, they're not the only determinant.

Yes my libido changed a lot in going from T to E&P, however I've spent time with just E, extremely low T and certainly still had the desire and ability to enjoy sex. Also for me, thus far bumping T from ultra-low up into mid-range female (I was last checked at T 45 ng/dl & E 267 pg/ml) I can't say it's made any huge bump in libido.

Quote from: JanePlain on March 14, 2019, 10:59:07 AM
From what I've read and discussed with my Endo everybody has receptors for Estrogen and Testosterone.  Heavy on one and light on the other the male / female thing.   However if you zero out one (or the other) your going to have an abnormal balance.  A goofed up male / female thing.  Its likely to have several different effects but I think the short version is that having low to no Estrogen or Testosterone will make your libido crash.  And this appears to be the same be you CIS Male or Female and of course anyone transgender. 

The problem of low libido being connected to low estrogen in men is the focus of some very interesting medical papers that are 2017, 2018, 2019  So this is somewhat new but worth reading and talking to your doctor about.  I'm sure that CIS Males are just as freaked out about taking ANY estrogen as M2F folks are about having anything other then 0 testosterone.  The levels of Testosterone and Estrogen after an orchiectomy or removal of ovaries is abnormally low.  The addrenal glands just don't produce enough.  Hopefully some post Orchie folks can report real world levels but everything I read says that addrenal glands produce only a small fraction of the hormones you need. 

I can personally report that working for a balance has turned my less then zero sex drive into a pretty good one.  Its a little shocking after years of having none but its great. Truly a part of life you should not discard without a fight.

Your results may vary but its worth checking out.  I think...

Quote from: JanePlain on March 14, 2019, 10:59:07 AM
From what I've read and discussed with my Endo everybody has receptors for Estrogen and Testosterone.  Heavy on one and light on the other the male / female thing.   However if you zero out one (or the other) your going to have an abnormal balance.  A goofed up male / female thing.  Its likely to have several different effects but I think the short version is that having low to no Estrogen or Testosterone will make your libido crash.  And this appears to be the same be you CIS Male or Female and of course anyone transgender. 

This is actually a very good point regarding the different hormone receptors.  If you think about it, it makes total sense that we would have both.  after all if we only had 1 or the other, than HRT wouldn't work.  The reason HRT does work is because we are blocking the T receptors and activating the E2 receptors.    not only that but if CIS females have T  than it only makes sense that we too should have some t.  one should only seek to eliminate all of something from the body if its presence in the body is not normal.  aside from being a sex hormone T has many essential functions in the body.  it helps to regulate mood and energy for one thing.  and decreasing it can have many bad effects on the body such as depression, and lack of motivation.  this is very dangerous!  so please avoid trying to eliminate all your T.

When my hormones were all one none of the other my libido crashed.  I felt fine that way other then being "bothered" by my SO.  Anyway once my endo oked HRT and I was on a balance that turned my libido on I was sorry I hadn't done this long ago.