Quote from: Kate.claire on April 02, 2019, 12:39:55 PM
Right, to be clear, my bones are the same as ever... my hips went from 40.5 to 43, but it's all just a bigger rear really. A lot more cushion... my wife's favorite pillow now when laying on the beach. Starting an exercise program again, so probably going to go back down. Hopefully my hips will look better with a smaller waist anyways.

It's all relative. As long as your shoulders are not drastically larger then your hips you'll be ok.

My shoulders are roughly 40 inches right now. I'm losing weight and literally all the measures are shrinking here and there but my shoulders will never go below 39 inches because that is the bones size. My hips thankfully are currently 44 inches but used to be 40 inches before hrt really kicked in. I'm in the process of losing weight and so far my hips have receded an inch but my waist has receded four inches.

I don't know if I ever had a point of return, because my body started to change by itself more towards the female side.  Most of my life I had a hard time to convince persons that I indeed was a man, and once my breasts started to grow a few years ago, it became even harder.  That point could have been considered as the turning point, but I could not stop it anyway.  I still don't feel any super effects from HRT, and I have to see if changes are happening faster now that I had my orchi  And this orchi, of course, will prevent it for ever that I can be a man again!

Quote from: NatalieRene on April 02, 2019, 01:01:16 PM


My shoulders are roughly 40 inches right now. I'm losing weight and literally all the measures arem shrinking here and there but my shoulders will never go below 39 inches because that is the bones size.

40 inches?!  Like all the way around your shoulders with a tailor's tape?  OMG girl,  you are tiny!  I feel like a beast at 48 inches....my chest band size alone is 38 inches.  Best I can hope for is a slimmer Alice the Goon.🤣

Quote from: Kate.claire on April 03, 2019, 03:07:58 AM
40 inches?!  Like all the way around your shoulders with a tailor's tape?  OMG girl,  you are tiny!  I feel like a beast at 48 inches....my chest band size alone is 38 inches.  Best I can hope for is a slimmer Alice the Goon.🤣

Yeah. I've always felt like my shoulders are too wide but growing I avoided all upper body strength building because I feared bulking up. My chest band right now is 36 and my cup size is a C. I try to count my blessings.

38 isn't bad for a chest band size. You're also fresh on HRT. If you have a lot of upper body muscle your shoulders might shrink down a few inches. You might get down to 46 and maybe 44 inches.

I must have lost an inch or two.  I am down to a little below 43 now, and I may be lucky to loose a little more, which would allow me to fit into L  (size 14) tops!
I am afraid that I am becoming a tiny wee little bit of a girl!   

Quote from: Dietlind on April 03, 2019, 04:57:16 PM
I must have lost an inch or two.  I am down to a little below 43 now, and I may be lucky to loose a little more, which would allow me to fit into L  (size 14) tops!
I am afraid that I am becoming a tiny wee little bit of a girl!   

Fitting clothes is difficult at the moment. upper torso is a size 8 at the moment but lower is closer to a size 14 because of the waist line. So I wear mediums. As I lose weight and the waist shrinks it get back down to my size 8 frame size.

Quote from: NatalieRene on April 03, 2019, 05:40:29 PM
Fitting clothes is difficult at the moment. upper torso is a size 8 at the moment but lower is closer to a size 14 because of the waist line. So I wear mediums. As I lose weight and the waist shrinks it get back down to my size 8 frame size.

I will be able to reach your size, once hell freezes over!  I am pretty sure that I have to settle for something like 14 tops and 12 bottoms!

Quote from: Dietlind on April 03, 2019, 06:30:28 PM
I will be able to reach your size, once hell freezes over!  I am pretty sure that I have to settle for something like 14 tops and 12 bottoms!

Size 12 is not bad.

Quote from: NatalieRene on April 03, 2019, 06:43:25 PM
Size 12 is not bad.

I think that I am currently around a 13 or so, some of 14 stuff fits, some is a little on the large side.  All depends on the manufacturer!
My real problem is the almost full absence of a waist!  I have a pretty good figure/shape for a guy, the problem is that I am not a guy, and I have not tried to be one for quite a while, but I just cannot shed this last bit of male looks on me.  It seems to hang in there and fighting for its dear life!
This forces me to wear waist disguising stuff, and that makes me some times looking fat!

For me the point of no return came fairly quickly.  I started HRT in March of 2015 and I had my name and gender changed in May of 2015.  I was fully out and living full time as myself.  Could I have stopped at that point?  Maybe, but the reason I moved so quickly was because I knew I was trans and I knew it was transition or nothing.  Once I had legally changed my name and gender and had publicly come out to my family, friends and employer I knew that there would be no turning back.  Six month into transition I had FFS and breast augmentation done and that totally sealed the deal.  Where that point of no return is different for each individual.  When you reach that point, you will know.

Quote from: Dietlind on April 03, 2019, 07:34:33 PM
I think that I am currently around a 13 or so, some of 14 stuff fits, some is a little on the large side.  All depends on the manufacturer!
My real problem is the almost full absence of a waist!  I have a pretty good figure/shape for a guy, the problem is that I am not a guy, and I have not tried to be one for quite a while, but I just cannot shed this last bit of male looks on me.  It seems to hang in there and fighting for its dear life!
This forces me to wear waist disguising stuff, and that makes me some times looking fat!

Yeah. I make a habit of checking the sizing charts. Ann Taylor, Bellambia and Sioni are brands I like. I've been starting to browse through the department stores again. I wish I had more money to spend on clothes. I'm smack in the middle of a move paying moving expenses, rent and a mortgage so I'm stuck with stuff from target and the clearance bins.

Quote from: NatalieRene on April 03, 2019, 08:08:02 PM
Yeah. I make a habit of checking the sizing charts. Ann Taylor, Bellambia and Sioni are brands I like. I've been starting to browse through the department stores again. I wish I had more money to spend on clothes. I'm smack in the middle of a move paying moving expenses, rent and a mortgage so I'm stuck with stuff from target and the clearance bins.

Tell me about moving costs!  When I moved from Minnesota to Florida  1 1/2 years ago, The move did set me back about $10,000!  I could have almost paid for half of my bottom surgery with that money!  But hurricane Irma came into my path, the closure for the house was set back, and I had to keep my stuff in very expensive climatized storage!

Quote from: Dietlind on April 03, 2019, 08:14:56 PM
Tell me about moving costs!  When I moved from Minnesota to Florida  1 1/2 years ago, The move did set me back about $10,000!  I could have almost paid for half of my bottom surgery with that money!  But hurricane Irma came into my path, the closure for the house was set back, and I had to keep my stuff in very expensive climatized storage!

Thankfully it won't be anything that bad. The pod company is going to cost about $3000 for the move to Texas and we'll pack it and unpack it while they ship it. The house I just want to get sold even if I don't make a bunch of money. I owe about $40,000 less then it's worth so I should walk away with something. Then I'm just going to rent a place in the area for a while before I commit to a house for the long term. I want to know I'll like the city first.

I had two points of no return. One coming out at work then expressing 2 work days later ( clothing was on order). The second point of no return was when the ordered clothing arrived at home and my wife (now ex) asked if I was going to come out at work. I said I had already and she said I will contact a divorce lawyer tomorrow.

My ex and I had an agreement on what she could tolerate. She changed the agreement to zero tolerance. I was not able to put Rachel back in the box. So then I was fee to be me but without her.

Quote from: Rachel on April 06, 2019, 01:10:10 PM
I had two points of no return. One coming out at work then expressing 2 work days later ( clothing was on order). The second point of no return was when the ordered clothing arrived at home and my wife (now ex) asked if I was going to come out at work. I said I had already and she said I will contact a divorce lawyer tomorrow.

My ex and I had an agreement on what she could tolerate. She changed the agreement to zero tolerance. I was not able to put Rachel back in the box. So then I was fee to be me but without her.

Thats interesting Rachel. Everytime I dress femme it causes domestic friction. The official line is. " You have got to stop dressing in womens clothes but I know you cant help it."

This means virtually every evening is a problem.

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Kirsten I am not even there yet.  My wife has no idea that I dress in gender (I hate "en femme" because I am not play acting). 

I know I will have a massive confrontation when I do.   I am hoping that my female body will be very obvious in male clothes by then.

Quote from: Kirsteneklund7 on April 06, 2019, 05:35:50 PM
Thats interesting Rachel. Everytime I dress femme it causes domestic friction. The official line is. " You have got to stop dressing in womens clothes but I know you cant help it."

This means virtually every evening is a problem.

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Kirsten - the quote 'but I know you can't help it" concerns me a lot.  I am not commenting on your wife as a person, I assume she is wonderful and you love her.  Also it sounds as though she realizes that you are not doing this as a whim so that's good too.  My concern lies with the "I know you can't help it". 

It's not her fault - she has also been conditioned by society her entire life to think that we are the subject of shame or there is something wrong with us.   I don't know where you see things going but I am going to be bold and suggest that you try educating her 'gently' with both articles and meeting with a transgender specific therapist.

Sorry for your struggle.

Quote from: Emma1017 on April 06, 2019, 07:20:45 PM
Kirsten I am not even there yet.  My wife has no idea that I dress in gender (I hate "en femme" because I am not play acting). 

I know I will have a massive confrontation when I do.   I am hoping that my female body will be very obvious in male clothes by then.

Yeah I hate the phrase 'en femme' also.  I am sure there are those reading that have no problem with it.  For me it reminds me of closeted cross-dressing or venturing out in public occasionally.  No big deal just a personal preference that I don't care for the phrase.  I prefer the phrase 'presenting as female'.  Tomat-oh vs Tom-ah-to.    Let's call the whole thing off - showing my age. 

Regarding your wife Emma that is going to be a real toughie.  Same advice applies to you as Kirsten but I know that is far easier said than done.

I know how difficult it is to walk the line of dysphoria and a significant others that is losing their husband to another woman. In this case the other woman is you.

In retrospect my ex really had no control over my actions. I allowed myself to be controlled and manipulated. When I grew my agency I started to realize she is entitled to the life she wants and I am entitled to the life I want. I had no intention of divorce or to cause a marital hardship. I understand her point of view and the need to be with a guy. I am the one the made a change in the marriage to a point she could not remain married. When I kept adding things that made me less dysphoric and suicidal how could I ever go back. Perhaps the point of no return was when I did my intake in January 2013.

On realization I have had (although it is not fair for me to write this) is that my ex chose being without me because she valued what she thought others would say over me being me. That is what hurt the most. Conversely, I valued Rachel more than I valued my ex's need to be in a Cis hetero marriage.

I had been struggling all my life to cope with being trans when in fact I just needed to let go and be me. There was a lot of pain and blame in my breakup. We ended the marriage with a mediator and the settlement was fare. I still see my ex and we go out to dinner once in a while. I stop over her condo and fix thigs and put together things and hang things.  Truth is I love her as much now as I ever did in the past. Part of me thinks some day we will be together again.

Letting go is scary; growing in a different directions than  my ex could tolerate was scary. Coming out is scary as well as expressing, makeup, surgeries and all the legal hoops. Standing in front of a judge in an open court room was not what I had in mind when coming out. I know these things made me stronger.

In some ways my journey has been harder than many for reasons I have mentioned before but having to cope with a spouse while in transition has to be extremely difficult.  Especially someone that you truly love.

While admittedly I have not lived it - I was divorced 9 years ago ( my crossdressing once in awhile was far down the list of our problems ) but as I was saying before I so rudely interrupted myself 

Although I was divorced before transitioning I am confident that anyone that has strong gender dysphoria and feels an urgent need to transition cannot possibly be part of a happy relationship long term if they continue to suppress who they are.  It just makes logical sense.

In retrospect I think my gender dysphoria indirectly affected me and my marriage.  Make no mistake my ex is truly a mean bitter person but there are two sides to every story.  I was very unhappy and I think a significant reason was my gender issues.  Definitely not the only reason but a major contributor.

Kirsten and Emma - I truly hope you can both stay with your wives and that things work out.  I know some people that have made it work.  Sadly they are the minority.

I do believe that in order to make someone else happy that you have to be happy yourself.  I can speak for myself and I believe many others here.  We will be with you through this when you want us.  I know I will.