Hello all.

While I will put this question forward from the MTF point of view, if you are FTM please feel welcome to chime in.
Something I read by @androgynosticka caught my attention because I had experienced something very similar.
I am still presenting as "male". About 4 months after starting Estradiol, and a month on t-blockers, quite a few cis-women started reacting to me differently in very subtle ways. Double takes, larger smiles, and at times sideways glances with a conspiratorial smile. From people passing me on the street, to coworkers, to service people. This is happening with increasing frequency.

My question is: Has anyone else experienced something like this? Do cis-women have estrogen vision they have kept super secret? Could I be giving nonverbal queues that I am unaware of?

I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences,

Ricki

I'm just a month on E, but the women I work with told me I was 'one of the girls' years ago, so I doubt I will see any difference. They confide personal problems to me, work relationship issues, we laugh and cry together. Actually, my boss said she thought I was the most sensitive person at work. We get together and criticise the two men in our group for their male inadequacies. I am the go to for sewing jobs. I still present as male at work, but with below shoulder length hair, and long nails. Even though I have only recently started HRT, my T has been down to near cis female levels for a decade, so maybe it's absence of T women can sense?

Allie

They're probably responding to the hormones they pick up from you.  It's the way mates attract in the animal world.  We just don't notice them.  Then there are the appearance clues that help.

There is something in this. It took about a year of HRT for it to happen to me,but yes the acknowledging smile. The easy chat & conversation, the sharing of certain personal details. I dont know why it happens but I love it!

Havent had adverse reactions from the men- in fact they are willing to share personal stuff as well.

My guess is I look much more serene and I smile more.

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One example - Just last weekend I was out exercising and a group of 4 people round the corner in front of me by about 25 yards, and I hear "Hi Cynthia" from out of the group, I finally recognize one of the ladies wearing sunglasses and it was my dear neighbor with the friendly geese down the hill from me. She hugs me in front of her man friend / husband, total girl embrace, that would have never happened like that 10 years ago. The other women in the group were chatty as well, the guy just smiled at me and said nothing....

Yes women are far more outgoing with me, even Mom's with small children smile and are friendly in random encounters, I've found it all starts with a smile and being comfortable with yourself, it's like magic...

C -

Thank you all. I am glad to hear about your experiences, and I look forward to this happening more in the future

Ricki

My shortest reply ever     ABSOLUTELY

Quote from: Ricki Wright on April 23, 2019, 07:16:40 AM
Thank you all. I am glad to hear about your experiences, and I look forward to this happening more in the future

Ricki

Before I came out full time, I was still working a job pretty much filled by 100% men. I travel between jobs all day every day so I made a lit of gas station put stops. Once I shaved my beard and was on E people did respond differently. Women do seem to pickup that you are non threatening and more like them.
I was in one gas station walking to the rest room and overheard the two girls working. One said "Did you see that girl?" The other one replied, "you mean that guy?". The first one said very dramatic like "that's a girl!". They were talking not too loud but I was the only other person in the store.
There were also an unusual amount of men holding the door open for me. I really couldn't figure that out at all.
Apperently in the beginning people thought I was FtM or Butch female.
But generally I noticed women would stand closer to me and I never figured out if it was because they were trying to quietly figure me out or if it was some subconscious safety type of thing. Most women are pretty supportive once I was out in the open. I only had a few standoffish ones who needed to get to know me first. Seems like when they see you as a transwoman some expect a flamboyant drag queen act. They need to just see you as another girl, then they relax around you.

Now it's been a while since I've transitioned so this may not be relevant to the thread, feel free to ignore it.

What is most notable lately is that a lot of younger women and teenage girls seem to shelter themselves around me. A friend at work pointed out a few weeks ago at a charity event that her daughter stayed on my hip the whole day, I think she is 17. She was really sweet and smart, was a big help to me all day actually, I never thought about it just assumed she was helping everyone. Since then I have noticed it at least a half a dozen more times. I have no clue what it signifies, if anything, just interesting. It has been going on for a while I think, I had to change my personal space policy because when someone gets too close I used to move, I have had to learn to endure it. Just something new to me that is pretty neat.

I hadn't really thought much about it but women have eased up to me regularly for decades, long before I had any clue to gender disconnects inside of me. It was just something about me that they felt comfortable opening up and feeling safe and trusting with me. They would open dialog and grumble about their guys or what ever, I was commonly just another one of the girls in most women's circles. The guys weren't comfortable with this and one wanted to shoot me but that is another story. Since coming out I have more semi adopted daughters and granddaughters to count. Oh yeh, I do love it!

Tia Anne

Quote from: Ricki Wright on April 23, 2019, 03:29:38 AM
About 4 months after starting Estradiol, and a month on t-blockers, quite a few cis-women started reacting to me differently in very subtle ways. Double takes, larger smiles, and at times sideways glances with a conspiratorial smile.

My question is: Has anyone else experienced something like this? Do cis-women have estrogen vision they have kept super secret? Could I be giving nonverbal queues that I am unaware of?

Hi Ricki, what an interesting topic.  Women definitely treat me nicer as Susan as compared to my male persona but I have not noticed any difference pre-HRT to post-HRT in that male persona.

In a slightly related topic....I have noticed one difference with some cats and dogs while I'm in my male persona pre-HRT and Post-HRT.  Cats and especially dogs are much more friendly and approach me more easily since being on HRT for awhile now.  It's likely a slight change in my pheromones that make me less threatening to them.

Susan R🌷

In a slightly related topic....I have noticed one difference with some cats and dogs while I'm in my male persona pre-HRT and Post-HRT.  Cats and especially dogs are much more friendly and approach me more easily since being on HRT for awhile now.  It's likely a slight change in my pheromones that make me less threatening to them.

Susan R🌷
[/quote]

I work at an Aquarium, and some of our animals, particularly our Cuttlefish, recognise and will go to women, but shy away from men. This definitely means pheromones aren't in the equation, so I guess it is about threatening / non threatening appearance. Most of us mtf soften significantly on HRT, and so others, particularly women who are sensitive to threat, perceive us to be safer. My fishy critters all come to me, but then, I feed them....

Allie

It is rare that this happens to you, it will be because they see you in a masculine way, but more effeminate and they believe that you are gay, you give them tenderness? I don't know lmao.

In my case, some girls are bitches with me and they look at me with envious faces, and I step over them ignoring them, the girls usually look me up and down when they feel inferior to me, and I just laugh at how ridiculous some of them are, usually it always happens to me in the school.

its like a rivalry between womens, and most are fat, and I'm thin, so perhaps that's why some look at me with envy, who knows xD

Yes. I saw changes in both male and female responses of people in proximity to me. My presentation at this point was still male.

Men tended to lean in closer to me in conversation or work.  Their posture at a table shifted to lean more toward me.  They were often more solicitous in behavior.

Women tended to smile at me more.  In conversations with multiple women, the eye movements as women glanced at one another included me, something I had not seen before.  When talking with me, the light touch gestures on hand and forearm between some women were also made with me.

It was an interesting set of changes in behavior.  I'd love to know if my pheromones had shifted at this point.  I know I smelled different.

I never noticed much change in how women treated me when I first started HRT but there was a big difference in the way males treated me. After I was on HRT for about 4 months my brother's friends started acting different towards me. They started being much nicer to me and they also started doing typical male "show off" behavior when I was around them. I found it very strange. I really believe makes, especially young males, can detect high estrogen levels and it affects their behavior. I don't know if it's pheromones or what but I believe they detect it in some way. Another incident was once before I had surgery. I had been working out and was sweaty. A couple of my brother's friends were over and I walked into the living room to get my water bottle and walked out. A few minutes later my brother told me I needed to shower. I asked him if I had BO from working out and he said I didn't have BO, that I smelled like "sweaty pussy". He said his friends had smelled it too. I couldn't smell anything. And also I was only in the living room for a minute. Yet they had all managed to smell this supposed "sweaty pussy" odor. And my dad told me once that he could always tell when I had used his bathroom. I asked him how and he said from the smell of my pee. He said female pee had a distinct odor. I have never smelled any difference between male and female pee. I honestly believe people can detect high levels of estrogen. Especially males.

Chivalry is not dead.

I'm always offered to enter the elevator first.  Doors are constantly being held. Etc...

At restaurants when dining with a female friend we're typically asked "separate checks?"


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Cis women are way more touchy with me these days. Been on HRT for couple years already. Pass.
Even though I'm open about being trans, women still treat me very differently than before I came out. Like as if I'm not dangerous anymore and like they don't have to build up a wall anymore when they are in my neighbourhood.

It totally makes sense now!

It either is or isn't pheromone related, is or isn't body language based, or is or isn't something I am imagining in my head!

Humor aside, thank you all for sharing your experiences, though it appears trans women are not above outright hostility in rare cases.

Ricki

I noticed a definite change when I grew out my hair. It is now well past my shoulders.  Everyone wants to hold the door for me!  Even co-workers who know I'm a short petite guy. I'm not on HRT though I do shave my body hair.

I have absolutely started noticing this just recently and I am at 9 months HRT. Lots of smiles from women out in public and the younger girls  in the 18-25 range are also way more friendly. I am still in male mode but have grown my hair it's almost shoulder length. At first I thought I was imagining this.
Jessica.