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How the idea of "Passing" may be harming you, from a fellow self-conscious trans

Started by Paige Heuer, April 05, 2019, 04:00:40 PM

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Michelle_P

Quote from: steph2.0 on April 12, 2019, 07:13:25 AM
...
Being trans is something imposed on me by some fluke of biology, and I don't find overcoming it something to be proud of. I just want to live quietly as my true self. After a literal half-century of struggling internally, I don't have the strength or will for external struggles.

So yes, passing is extremely important to me. If some believe that my need to be seen as my true self is somehow hurting others, I can live with that

Well said, Stephanie!

I am a woman.  I am a woman physically, anatomically, and psychologically. 

Transgender merely describes the relatively circuitous path I took to reach this point in my life. It is how I got here, not who I am.

There are folks who may disagree with this.  There are folks who see me as less than, a being less worthy because I exist, because I took action to make myself whole.  So be it.   But, when they act on their misguided beliefs to cause harm, I choose to act as well, to protect myself, those I love, and all who are erroneously seen as less worthy because they choose to live.
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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christinej78

Quote from: Michelle_P on April 12, 2019, 10:06:20 AM
Well said, Stephanie!

I am a woman.  I am a woman physically, anatomically, and psychologically. 

Transgender merely describes the relatively circuitous path I took to reach this point in my life. It is how I got here, not who I am.

There are folks who may disagree with this.  There are folks who see me as less than, a being less worthy because I exist, because I took action to make myself whole.  So be it.   But, when they act on their misguided beliefs to cause harm, I choose to act as well, to protect myself, those I love, and all who are erroneously seen as less worthy because they choose to live.

Hi Michelle,                            12 April 2019

Beautifully stated; You do have a wonderful way with language, written and spoken. God Bless and Thank You!

Best Always, Love
Christine
Veteran - US Navy                                       Arborist, rigger, climber, sawyer
Trans Woman 13 Apr 18                               LEO (Cop)
Living as female - 7 years                             Pilot
Start HRT san's AA's 27 March 2018              Mechanic
Borchiday completed Friday 13 Apr 2018        Engineer Multi Discipline
IT Management Consultant                            Programmer
Friend                                                          Bum, Bumett
Semi Retired                                                Still Enjoy Being a Kid, Refuse to Grow UP
Former Writer / Editor                                   Carpenter / Plumber / Electrician
Ex-Biker, Ex-Harley Driver                             Friend of a Coyote
Ex-Smoker 50 years and heading for 100
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steph2.0

Quote from: Michelle_P on April 12, 2019, 10:06:20 AM
I am a woman.  I am a woman physically, anatomically, and psychologically. 

Transgender merely describes the relatively circuitous path I took to reach this point in my life. It is how I got here, not who I am.

I really like that! Transgender should always be an adjective, never a noun.


Assigned male at birth 1958 * Began envying sister 1963 * Knew unquestioningly that I was female 1968 * Acted the male part for 50 years * Meltdown and first therapist session May 2017 * Began HRT 6/21/17 * Out to the world 10/13/17 * Name Change 12/7/2017 (Girl Harbor Day) * FFS With FacialTeam 12/4/2018 * Facelift and Lipo Body Sculpting at Ocean Clinic 6/13-14/2019 * GCS with Marci Bowers 9/25/2019
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DawnOday

This comment may adversely affect some people. It is not my intention to make anyone uncomfortable, If you are easily offended please go no further.
As I wandered through the casino's on the Strip, I held my head high, shoulders back and walked with dignity. I passed thousands of people over five days. It was scary at first as I have only gone out in public in trans friendly areas like Capital Hill of Seattle or after meeting, dinners in Tacoma. As I walked I grew more and more confident that while I didn't pass literally I did pass as a well dressed, well made up person that represented the opposite gender with love and respect. People can put labels, I choose Hybrid to describe myself. Not really totally male or totally female. My reasoning is that I do not have the necessary equipment. Boobs do not make you a woman. The other factor as my kids reminded me. "You will always be our Dad." But the idea that my brain has finally been reunited with my early life experience, makes me happy I took this path when it was offered. The results have been far greater than I ever imagined. I wish I could go the rest of the way but I am on a time limitation as we don't live forever. Surgeries are out of the question. Twenty - fifty years ago I absolutely would have gone all the way with surgeries. Water under the bridge it ain't going to happen. "If you can't be with the one you love." "Love the love your with." I love being me these days. Not perfect but high functioning.
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

If you have a a business or service that supports our community please submit for our Links Page.

First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17



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steph2.0

Quote from: DawnOday on April 12, 2019, 12:01:12 PM
This comment may adversely affect some people. It is not my intention to make anyone uncomfortable, If you are easily offended please go no further.
As I wandered through the casino's on the Strip, I held my head high, shoulders back and walked with dignity. I passed thousands of people over five days. It was scary at first as I have only gone out in public in trans friendly areas like Capital Hill of Seattle or after meeting, dinners in Tacoma. As I walked I grew more and more confident that while I didn't pass literally I did pass as a well dressed, well made up person that represented the opposite gender with love and respect. People can put labels, I choose Hybrid to describe myself. Not really totally male or totally female. My reasoning is that I do not have the necessary equipment. Boobs do not make you a woman. The other factor as my kids reminded me. "You will always be our Dad." But the idea that my brain has finally been reunited with my early life experience, makes me happy I took this path when it was offered. The results have been far greater than I ever imagined. I wish I could go the rest of the way but I am on a time limitation as we don't live forever. Surgeries are out of the question. Twenty - fifty years ago I absolutely would have gone all the way with surgeries. Water under the bridge it ain't going to happen. "If you can't be with the one you love." "Love the love your with." I love being me these days. Not perfect but high functioning.

Perfection is a worthy goal but not often achieved. I can't imagine what anyone would find offensive about your post. It sounds like you've found what works for you, and that's a glorious thing! Anyone who isn't happy for you and your happiness isn't worth listening to. Congratulations!


Assigned male at birth 1958 * Began envying sister 1963 * Knew unquestioningly that I was female 1968 * Acted the male part for 50 years * Meltdown and first therapist session May 2017 * Began HRT 6/21/17 * Out to the world 10/13/17 * Name Change 12/7/2017 (Girl Harbor Day) * FFS With FacialTeam 12/4/2018 * Facelift and Lipo Body Sculpting at Ocean Clinic 6/13-14/2019 * GCS with Marci Bowers 9/25/2019
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zirconia

Quote from: steph2.0 on April 12, 2019, 07:13:25 AM
Wow, Zirconia, thank you. When I first saw your post, I thought, "There's no way I'm going to read all that!" Then I started reading, and couldn't stop. I wish I'd written it.

You perfectly describe the way I feel. My wish to live what remains of my life without a T prefix is valid, and in no way invalidates anyone else's point of view.

Steph,

Thank you. I'm glad that someone liked/agreed with my feelings. It's a relief, and really means much to me.
It takes forever for me to collect my thoughts, and I always feel like I'm treading on eggs when I try to post them....

(╹◡╹)
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steph2.0

Quote from: zirconia on April 12, 2019, 12:24:09 PM
Steph,

Thank you. I'm glad that someone liked my thoughts and feelings. It's a relief.
I always feel like I'm treading on eggs when I try to write about something here that really matters to me.

I understand that! I get nervous when I post my opinions too. While in this case I agree with you on your post, that's not necessary for all of us to show respect to each other. I like to think we're all friends here, despite varying points of view. In the worst case, we have the TOS to fall back on, if things get disrespectful. So please don't censor yourself. All points of view are valid here.


Assigned male at birth 1958 * Began envying sister 1963 * Knew unquestioningly that I was female 1968 * Acted the male part for 50 years * Meltdown and first therapist session May 2017 * Began HRT 6/21/17 * Out to the world 10/13/17 * Name Change 12/7/2017 (Girl Harbor Day) * FFS With FacialTeam 12/4/2018 * Facelift and Lipo Body Sculpting at Ocean Clinic 6/13-14/2019 * GCS with Marci Bowers 9/25/2019
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Linde

Quote from: zirconia on April 12, 2019, 12:24:09 PM
Steph,

Thank you. I'm glad that someone liked/agreed with my feelings. It's a relief, and really means much to me.
It takes forever for me to collect my thoughts, and I always feel like I'm treading on eggs when I try to post them....

(╹◡╹)
I liked your contribution a lot.  You mostly expressed my feelings, too!

You are not alone with those!
Hugs
Linde
02/22/2019 bi-lateral orchiectomy






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MeTony

Quote from: Michelle_P on April 12, 2019, 10:06:20 AM

Transgender merely describes the relatively circuitous path I took to reach this point in my life. It is how I got here, not who I am.

This! It's exactly as I think. Transgender is a journey for me. When I'm coming home, I am home with myself.


Tony
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DawnOday

Don't worry about giving opinions. You know the bon mot. A-holes and opinions everyone has them. You have as much authority to give yours as anybody else. And don't worry if your opinion is not accepted by the masses. It's called communication, an exchange of ideas. If everyone were afraid forums would not exist.
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

If you have a a business or service that supports our community please submit for our Links Page.

First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17



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Sabrina Rei

Passing is important to me because I want my life to go uninterrupted. When I broadcast a signal that says, "hey I'm female!" I want that to message to be as clean and clear as possible so it doesn't muck with the rest of the "story." If that means wearing makeup or putting in some extra effort to bring my voice within a female range then that's what I'm going to do. I have so much more to offer people than my gender issues and I'll play along with the beauty standards game to make sure they don't dominate my every interaction. But that being said, I ultimately do these things because I want to (they're fun or I find value in participation) not because of some outside pressure that I must kowtow to.

I have no problem discussing my being transgender or my transition with anyone. My life is an open book from which I hope others can learn and be eased by but I won't define myself by my gender identity.


Janes Groove

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Jeal

I think it is an amazing topic that you have clearly thought a lot about.  In some ways I really agree.  I mean, transition and passing won't cure me of body image problems, will it?

For me, what is most important, is that it is what I want.  I want to look a certain way, and like a ciswoman might go and get her nose done, or wear a wig, I plan on doing the same.  In my past life I would have called this vanity, but now, it's just what I want.  I've learned the hard way that no one but me can advocate for that and reach for it.

I also don't want my happiness to be contingent on passing or being pretty.  There is plenty of work to do on all levels :D
Trans-cendental Musings Blog and Art:
https://jaelpw.wixsite.com/website


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SeptagonScars

I've thought similarly too. I spent the better part of the past 10 years trying to pass as a man in my ftm transition, and into the 5th year of it, I finally reached that goal. And I passed well for 4 years... until I came to the realisation that I had been traveling life on the wrong train, and made the decision to detransition.

After 9 years of having lived as a man, I did not expect how hard it would be to start living as a woman again. It hit me hard, and felt like a mountain smacked me in the face. Cause I had put in so much effort, and during so many years... just to regret it? It felt like the cruelest fate, and hardest lesson I've ever had to learn. I had even voice trained additionally to taking T so that I could get my voice as close to "cis male sounding" as possible, I changed my mannerisms, learned how to trim my beard, spent years changing the way I walk and finding the best ways of dressing masculine to hide wide hips. But yes, I had been performing an act without even knowing it. Thought I was just alleviating dysphoria. But the solution I had reached for created more problems for me than it alleviated.

But ultimately my detransition is for me more about connecting with bio sex and really just loving being a woman, than it is about my looks or what I do medically to regain what I've lost. Just going off T did a tremenduous difference in finding back to my stuffed away, inner womanhood. It is much more psychological than it is physical.

Medically, the only thing I want to get from now on is new boobs, which won't help with my passing at all. I want them for my own personal comfort, in private, and possibly with a girlfriend, but I don't want them for passing. And I don't even care what they'll look like.

But I'm not here to promote for detransition, cause it kinda sucks anyhow, so I don't recommend it. It devastated and terrified me, so in my early detransition I again felt like "now I have to instead try to pass a female again!" while I just kept seeing a man in the mirror. A man with female genitals and wide hips, but still. I think I look male in the face unless I cake on makeup, thanks to T and my genetics that just made my face naturally androgynous. And my lack of boobs makes clothing difficult, either which way.

I've now been detransing for 9 months and I don't try to pass anymore. It was when I reached the point of nearly throwing my makeup and shaving tools against a wall and screaming at them, but still couldn't figure out if I wanted to keep or remove my facial hair, that I needed to find a better approach. I stopped covering my beard shadow, and on some days I don't even shave my face. I don't hide my hairline anymore, and I don't change the way my voice now "naturally" sounds since having been on T, which is for the past 8 years (long enough for it to feel natural to me, but of course is actually medically modified).

I know I don't look like a woman (except from in pics, for whatever reason), but I still am one. I know I don't pass, although most people avoid gendering me at all, so I rarely get referred to with any or either pronouns. I notice by how they act around me and more subtle things than pronouns. I notice by how they say my very common female name slowly and awkwardly. I notice by how they call me a woman in a noticably forced way. I notice by how other women distance themselves from me like they never used to before my transition, and by how men still expect me to somehow relate to their ways of thinking. I live in a safe area so I can do this without fearing for my well-being. I often think I actually look a little like as if I was a trans woman in early transition, and that there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

A few times back in my transition, I thought to myself if I would have been happier if I had been born male, but the damn thought that always came up in my head as a reply to that was that I would probably have been a trans woman then. Finally I understand why I kept getting that thought. I didn't mean it literally. It was a metaphor for my detransition, that I at heart always felt like a woman, even when I hated it the most.

I love my beard, and I can't leave my bed without my boobs. Passing for me now, is nothing but a utopian pipe dream, which could only happen in a society in which I'd be perceived as female regardless of my looks and voice. But it's also become far less important to me. Just knowing who/what I am myself, having my style, and embracing my traits that I like about my body, both the female and the male ones, and living my life to the fullest and trying my best to not be hindered by my body, is what matters the most to me.

Then people can think I'm a man if that's what they see. It's not an insult, it's not an actually bad thing to be male, even though I too have come to understand just how much lesser people think of me when they mistake me for a trans woman. It doesn't say anything about my actual value, as a person or as a woman. And I say all of that as a cis woman who is non-passing, more or less by choice.
Mar. 2009 - came out as ftm
Nov. 2009 - changed my name to John
Mar. 2010 - diagnosed with GID
Aug. 2010 - started T, then stopped after 1 year
Aug. 2013 - started T again, kept taking it since
Mar. 2014 - top surgery
Dec. 2014 - legal gender marker changed to male
*
Jul. 2018 - came out as cis woman and began detransition
Sep. 2018 - stopped taking T and changed my name to Laura
Oct. 2018 - got new ID-card

Medical Detransition plans: breast reconstruction surgery, change legal gender back to female.
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Drexy/Drex

Hi Paige just read your post , you've articulated that well ....I in fact don't try and pass and I doubt I would if I tried
I'm happy to be seen as trans to be see as a third sex and that's fine with me,so far it's mostly been a good experience I haven't experienced any significant discrimination  and I've found quite a bit of acceptance for who I am ....perhaps I'm lucky but I'm proud to be who I am and have no back off on  it to placate others......the more we stand up and be counted the more acceptance..perhaps I'm wrong .....I don't know
There are passable trans women in the camp I'm in  they stay away from me ....thoughI have had tacit acknowledgement from one .....😊
The other keep their distance which is fair enough
Everything
  Louder
   Than
Everything
    Else
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zamber74

I really wish I could get past the point of not concerning myself with what others think of me.  Beyond that, I wish I could just be happy with myself, physically, and mentally.  Passing would get me through with not concerning myself as much with what others think of me, but then, from my understanding women are constantly judged regardless, so that would just provide a host of other problems. 

I mean, even if I did pass, I would still be worrying about how others perceive me, that is just a given for someone like me.  I hate that feeling too,  as though everyone is always judging me.  I sometimes wonder if being born male, may have been a blessing in this way.  If I want to go out in worn out shorts with holes in them, a t-shirt with a stain, unshaven,  I am not going to attract nearly as much attention. 

If I could just accept myself, to love myself, that would go so much further than passing.  I just have never been able to get past that point, and it is incredibly frustrating.  I wish I could turn off that portion of my mind, to go through life without having a concern in the world when it comes to others, yet no matter how deeply I think of it, no matter how much I try, I always find myself being impacted by others when it comes to my own sense of self esteem.

Internalized transphobia toward myself, toxic "masculinity", probably even sexism, and so many other things form a formidable wall around me.  Passing is not my problem, I'm my problem, I wish I could just get past my own self.  It is strange, because I have never been one to try to prove myself to others.  I did not try to convince others that I am some alpha male, I've found my differences from men to be a good thing and would never want to give them up, yet I am still plagued with so many of these problems.

Passing should not be important, what is important is me to just sort through my own problems.  If I could do that, I wouldn't care at all about passing, or anything when it concerns with what others think.  I've been living with this feeling of wanting to be a woman for so long, that it is mind blowing, I can't make sense of it.  It really shouldn't be this important to me.  I have to question, if I could just be happy with myself, would gender even matter in the first place? 

--
Okay, enough of my scattered thoughts, and climbing through rabbit holes.  The original post was interesting,  I don't find myself disagreeing with.
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emma-f

I try to pass (or blend, as I normally prefer to call it) as much as I can, and I think I manage it most of the time (I suppose one can never be sure, maybe I've just never met a transphobic person as then I'd surely know). Anyway, I've been on vacation in Orlando the last two weeks with my daughter and at one of the dinners Snow White on leaving our table said "bye bye Prince". Now, I don't blame her, she probably cringed when she realised that she'd misgendered me, and that's fine, but something about me clearly made her realise I was trans and therefore make the mistake. And I was devastated. I still am. But it did get me wondering why.

Part of it, undoubtedly, is that I hate that I've put my 6 year old through this, and it'd be a lot smoother for her if I blended consistently. My own personal position is that I'd like to blend for her, and my family. I know my mother was hugely relieved when she saw me for the first time and that I "didn't look bad".

Part of it is not necessarily that I want to look Cis, but I don't want to look or be perceived as trans. Many people are happy to wear that badge and wear it with pride, and well done to them. I'm actually jealous of that viewpoint. But that's not me. In every facet of life I want to blend in and not put my head above the parapet. I've been asked a couple of time to go on TV or on BBC Radio 4 and I've rejected each time. I just want to a live a quiet little happy no fuss life.

Em x
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D'Amalie

One shouldn't open the book of another's life and jump in the middle.  I am a woman, I'm a mystery.  I still see and hear who I used to be, who I am, who I'm gonna be. - Richelle
"Where you'd learn do to that, miss?" "Just do it, that's all; ... I got natural talent." "I'll say you do, at that." - Firefly
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