Quote from: Ⓥ on May 05, 2019, 05:33:45 PM
Yes, you're always transgender.  This isn't really up for debate; this is reality and factual.  End of story.

I disagree. By labelling myself as permanently transgender, I feel like I would be denying that I have always had the mentality of a female. Which (please dont take this the wrong way) would be saying I was a man disguising myself as a female. Which, I'm totally not ok with.

I am a woman suffering from a genetic anomally. That's my stance. Please feel free to disagree, but again as stated in a previous post: transitioning only occurs during that period of time that you go under the knife.

To constantly be in a state of transition? No thank you.

I am a woman. Plain and simple.

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Quote from: Ⓥ on May 05, 2019, 11:59:08 PM
Hi Dietlind!  Ich spreche sehr wenig und schlecht, aber Ich spreche :p

Thanks for your reply    You are (as you stated) intersex and not, as the thread title states MtF.  I was merely answering the thread title question, but more than happy to engage with you.

From what anecdotal evidence I have seen, intersexed individuals are very rare and unique.  As such, classification (if that word can suit you) is more personalized and individual instead of broadly labeled is it not?  But intersexed individuals still are under the same umbrella as we all are as transgender individuals, wouldn't you agree?

Cis-Male ( MtF / Intersex / FtM ) Cis-Female

Sorry if I come across as brash (that's just my posting style; always has been I'm afraid), but the question "Are we always transgender?" is just... I mean, think about it.  I simply don't understand why it's even a question heh.  I'm all ears and willing to have a discussion about it though

Aurora honey, I love you babe, but I disagree with ya wholeheartedly about this topic <3

Hi potato V, your German seems to be pretty good to me!  You could hang around the German language section here on Susan's, and talk there with us a little!
I would not say that us people with different intersex syndromes (I like that better than being called intersexed, which reminds me on over sexed) are a rare bread, because they tell us now that about one in 250 new born's has such syndromes.  Most of them can't be identified without pretty involved testing.  I seem to have won the grand price of intersex, because i have a whole bunch of the different syndromes inside my body.  But that is another story.

However, i consider myself to also be trans, because I presented as a male, and had some of the male equipment, not that much of it, just the genitals (I guess what I had was called ambiguous at the time of my birth), and some mild beard growth.  But nevertheless, it was decided that I am a male, and off I went into manliness!  And leaving this manliness behind was through transition into a female.  My body was mostly there already (when they made the decision for me to be male or female, they had a 50/50 chance, and I guess they picked the wrong 50%), my brain had to follow.  I never had the feeling as if my mind was housed in the wrong body, which I read here so many of the trans women had already pretty early in their life.  i can't really recall any feeling for any gender, I had a body, and was told that I am male, and I tried to be male.  This was hard and caused a lot of frustration for me, because I could not keep up with my peers.  Everything changed with puberty, at least with my peers, nothing happened with me, except a little pubic hair in a female pattern close to Tanner III.  I learned to modulate my voice to sound a little bit closer to a guy.
Did I feel like a guy, I don't know, I tried I know that, and failed again.  This not being able to be a guy while I was supposed to be one, was the cause of almost all my frustration, I guess, today we would call it dysphoria.
Looking back, i never had any real gender identity, I did not feel male or female, I just was there and tried to play my role as good as I could.  Until I could not do it anymore, because my body remembered that i was a female and presented me with my menopause.  This was the beginning of my transition into a female, I seem to be able to play this role way better than the male one, because my body is playing along, but I still don't have a very clear gender identity.
And I don't even know whether I am trans or not.  The current laws in Germany spell out that a intersex person cannot be trans at the same time.  Their reasoning is that we don't have a defined gender, and one can be only trans if one transitioned from one gender to another.  The German law allows for a third gender for us intersex people.

Because of these muddy waters I still consider my move from intersex to male and later to female as transitions, but once I have finished this move I do not consider myself to be trans anymore, because biologically I seem to be closer to a cis female than to a cis male.

Quote from: Ⓥ on May 05, 2019, 11:59:08 PM
Aurora honey, I love you babe, but I disagree with ya wholeheartedly about this topic <3

Hey I don't think we actually disagree. I see your point. I think it's more of a preferred terminology thing. I don't use the word transgender at all, and describe myself as a transsexual, if I have to. My post was intented to explain that, on a daily basis, I feel no need to advertise, flaunt that as badge, or give any explanation. I live as a woman, and everybody recognizes me as such, nothing more. I'm not delusional to think that it doesn't affect the medical care I receive, but that's about it.

I'm a woman.  The path I took to this point in my life is more complex than most, and I summarize it as being 'transgender.'   

That is, 'transgender' is an adjective that summarizes my path to this current point in my life.  The details are something for myself, and the most intimate of partners,.

Quote from: Aurorasky on May 06, 2019, 09:51:57 AM
Hey I don't think we actually disagree. I see your point. I think it's more of a preferred terminology thing. I don't use the word transgender at all, and describe myself as a transsexual, if I have to. My post was intented to explain that, on a daily basis, I feel no need to advertise, flaunt that as badge, or give any explanation. I live as a woman, and everybody recognizes me as such, nothing more. I'm not delusional to think that it doesn't affect the medical care I receive, but that's about it.

Aurora - I agree with you.  I'm grateful to people who did flaunt the badge to help make this problem something more people can try to wrap their heads around but I'm not willing to march in the front of the parade. 

Its fear for me that limits my willingness to jump out there.  I think there is a disconnect when naysayers go nut job saying its just men (or women) "in drag"  And I'm not saying that to get crossdressers spun up.  If someone is on HRT has had bottom surgery (And possibly other types) how is that sort of person just a man in a dress?  Is there some sort of locker room way to validate how your brain is wired and the things you've done to sync that up?

For people like us.  Is this a matter of people loving the drive but denying the destination?

I'm overthinking this again - I think.

I do see myself as trans anymore as I feel I have completed my transition.

I completed it when I had my Srs.

I am now just a woman

I dress like a lady, I am accepted as a woman by people, I have a female body shape, breasts, a vagina between my legs.

I think like a woman and I am even a wife to a man. I play the female role in the relationship with my husband.

I can't imagine being any other way.. I am a woman .. that's it

Quote from: noleen111 on May 09, 2019, 09:31:38 AM
I do see myself as trans anymore as I feel I have completed my transition.

I completed it when I had my Srs.

I am now just a woman

I dress like a lady, I am accepted as a woman by people, I have a female body shape, breasts, a vagina between my legs.

I think like a woman and I am even a wife to a man. I play the female role in the relationship with my husband.

I can't imagine being any other way.. I am a woman .. that's it

THANK YOU!

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For me, it will never be over as I will always be "Me".  And "Me" is a mixture of both the maleness I grew up with and the feminine I have always felt and now am unleashing. I am Gods creation which is not one or the other but something else.  Inside I am woman, outside I am man and even when my outside changes many decades of habits will not just disappear.  I will always be some blend of both and I embrace that.

Bea

Quote from: Michelle_P on May 06, 2019, 03:17:27 PM
I'm a woman.  The path I took to this point in my life is more complex than most, and I summarize it as being 'transgender.'   

That is, 'transgender' is an adjective that summarizes my path to this current point in my life.  The details are something for myself, and the most intimate of partners,.

We went back and forth about this before I was banned for a few months awhile ago.  Do you remember? LoL

My stance is exactly what it was back then:

I'm proud to be a biological male who transitioned from that to a transgendered female and have no internalized transphobia due to this pride because I, unlike what I suspect the people who disagree with me harbor, feel that being a transgendered woman instead of "just a woman" is somehow lesser and to be avoided.

Regardless how society treats me, how I look, how I act, and how I sound, my chromosomes, genitalia, prostate, lack of a uterus and my memories are a life-long reminder of the truth... and the truth should never be something to fear or not accept.

I mean, granted I don't wear a sign of my body that says to the world, "Hey guys, I'm a biological male."  But if pressed on that, it's like... yeah, that's what is what.

Why is that a problem?  I dunno... y'all tell me.

Quote from: Ⓥ on May 09, 2019, 10:13:46 AM
We went back and forth about this before I was banned for a few months awhile ago.  Do you remember? LoL

My stance is exactly what it was back then:

I'm proud to be a biological male who transitioned from that to a transgendered female and have no internalized transphobia due to this pride because I, unlike what I suspect the people who disagree with me harbor, feel that being a transgendered woman instead of "just a woman" is somehow lesser and to be avoided.

Regardless how society treats me, how I look, how I act, and how I sound, my chromosomes, genitalia, prostate, lack of a uterus and my memories are a life-long reminder of the truth... and the truth should never be something to fear or not accept.

I mean, granted I don't wear a sign of my body that says to the world, "Hey guys, I'm a biological male."  But if pressed on that, it's like... yeah, that's what is what.

Why is that a problem?  I dunno... y'all tell me.

Yeah, I'll never get as far as "completing" transition, so it's a non-issue for me. I still struggle, but my ultimate goal is to be comfortable as part-each male/female/nonbinary me. I am proud of who I am and will always be.

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Quote from: Ⓥ on May 09, 2019, 10:13:46 AM

...

I'm proud to be a biological male who transitioned from that to a transgendered female and have no internalized transphobia due to this pride because I, unlike what I suspect the people who disagree with me harbor, feel that being a transgendered woman instead of "just a woman" is somehow lesser and to be avoided.
...

+1 for that.

Quote from: Ⓥ on May 09, 2019, 10:13:46 AMI mean, granted I don't wear a sign of my body that says to the world, "Hey guys, I'm a biological male."  But if pressed on that, it's like... yeah, that's what is what.

Why is that a problem?  I dunno... y'all tell me.

This makes sense for me.

I suppose there are different definitions of "biological male" out there. 

Medically, I have a vulva and vagina.  My serum estradiol and testosterone levels are female normal.  FMRI shows a neurotypical female differentiation in brain tissue.

Removed tissue from a surgery 18 months ago included a pathology report indicating uterine hypoplasia.  (Just found this gem in the records.)

Genetically, active and methylated genes look typically female.  Karyotype is interesting, with many cells showing XY chromosomes, some showing XX, and some showing X.

Yes, I'm a lab rat for an ongoing research project.  Lots of oddball things added to my medical record the past couple of years.  Yay Kaiser.  You now have medical information on me I have not disclosed to anyone before.

I'm not sure 'male' fits me medically.  It sure doesn't fit psychologically.  So, I'll go with 'woman' or 'female' on all the silly paperwork that asks about gender or sex.  It seems the most honest answer to me.

I went through a medical transition process to arrive at my current state, resolving gender incongruities between body and mind.  This means that I am a transgender person.  Big surprise, huh?

I don't worry about policing other people, or assigning their gender identities.  They can do their thing, and I'll do mine.

And along comes Linde, who actually does not know what she is.
I know that most of my genetic makeup is female, because a genome analysis says that I have the typical genetic makeup of a post menopausal female.  I know that I have an ovary and a prostate. I know that I have XXY chromosomes and several other intersex conditions.  I was told that I am 2/3 female, and I know that I was made into a male, and that gave me the "blessings" of a penis and one functioning testicle (that is gone now), the rest of my body stayed pretty much female/neutral.  I lived as a guy many years, and now I live as a female.  The absolute only change for this is the removal of the penis and replacing it with a vagina.

Am I a transgender person or am I just reclaiming what should have been there all my life?  What am I after SRS?  I can't consider myself a biological male, because I never have been one!  Shall I continue the rest of my life as an IT?

I feel that I am a woman, and always have been a woman and was just forced to do a period of cross dressing to meet the criteria of society!

Quote from: Ⓥ on May 09, 2019, 10:13:46 AM
We went back and forth about this before I was banned for a few months awhile ago.  Do you remember? LoL

My stance is exactly what it was back then:

I'm proud to be a biological male who transitioned from that to a transgendered female and have no internalized transphobia due to this pride because I, unlike what I suspect the people who disagree with me harbor, feel that being a transgendered woman instead of "just a woman" is somehow lesser and to be avoided.

Regardless how society treats me, how I look, how I act, and how I sound, my chromosomes, genitalia, prostate, lack of a uterus and my memories are a life-long reminder of the truth... and the truth should never be something to fear or not accept.

I mean, granted I don't wear a sign of my body that says to the world, "Hey guys, I'm a biological male."  But if pressed on that, it's like... yeah, that's what is what.

Why is that a problem?  I dunno... y'all tell me.

I think it's awesome that you're proud to be trans. Myself I could never be proud of being trans. To me being trans is a cruel twist of fate that has caused me great misery.  And yes, to me being a transwomen means being not a "real" woman or less than equal to a cis woman. At this point I want to live in as deep stealth that I possibly can. I can never be proud of something that has caused me so much pain and heartache. My brother's thoughts on this subject baffle me. Once I was talking about if there is anyway to get rid of any legal records which have my sex as male on them. Tyler said " why do stress so hard about trying to erase the fact you're trans? You actually should be proud of being trans. You started out in life as a boy and now you are a beautiful girl. You're prettier than most cis girls I know. You should totally be proud of that".  I don't understand his feelings about this. I do wonder though if he actually had lived life as a Trans woman himself if he would still think being trans was something to be so proud of. I'm thinking probably not.

for me transition was over after SRS and I just felt like myself and that I completed that part of my life. It took a good month for me to move on when I did realize this. but its a great feeling to feel complete in that way so you can move on.

Quote from: Julia1996 on May 23, 2019, 02:55:13 AM
And yes, to me being a transwomen means being not a "real" woman or less than equal to a cis woman.

I agree that it means not a real woman either, and that's great to hear it from someone on here because many MANY other people would call that horribly transphobic, and yet... it's really not; it's called reality.  But just because that's what is what, I don't feel like I'm lesser for it at all; no more than a banana is "lesser" than a kiwi; that aspect of it is subjective.

Quote from: Julia1996 on May 23, 2019, 02:55:13 AMAt this point I want to live in as deep stealth that I possibly can.

Aye, I can relate.  It's not in the cards for me personally (I never get misgendered, but I'm pretty sure some eagle-eyed people "suspect".  Besides, true stealth doesn't exist imho.  Someone will *always* know... and that's okay.

Quote from: Julia1996 on May 23, 2019, 02:55:13 AMTyler said " why do stress so hard about trying to erase the fact you're trans? You actually should be proud of being trans. You started out in life as a boy and now you are a beautiful girl. You're prettier than most cis girls I know. You should totally be proud of that".  I don't understand his feelings about this. I do wonder though if he actually had lived life as a Trans woman himself if he would still think being trans was something to be so proud of. I'm thinking probably not.

I lived the life and I think it's something to be proud of!  It's extremely unique, no matter how you slice it.  I'm sure that's little consolation for you, but know that I also think I understand why you lack pride in it too.  My wish is that you don't hate yourself or get depressed over it

I've always been a woman. The DNA didn't quite match but my soul and mind is female. I don't identify as anything but female. I pass just fine and no one need see whats down below except my girl friend.

Quote from: Ⓥ on May 05, 2019, 05:33:45 PM
Yes, you're always transgender.  This isn't really up for debate; this is reality and factual.  End of story.

As someone who will likely never pass, I'm still completely in sympathy with those who choose to live stealth to whatever degree.

Sure, to most eyes I'm a male in a dress (to prove that I just went to my 45th HS reunion and got referred to in a nasty email after as "look like <deadname> in a dress".

I didn't need that insult to recognize that 99.99% of the population will never 'get' that I'm female and always was.

My women friends uniformly get it, hell it was a lesbian I was in a relationship with who saw me clearly enough to recognize me as a woman that got me started. Some of the men get it, I think that men, being on the 'advantage' side of gender privilege are far less likely to understand any nuanced views of gender.

So thanks, the 'facts' as to how I arrived here don't change that I identity as a woman and am recognized as such by the people I care about. Transgender is part of my history, not so much part of my here & now.

Quote from: Ⓥ on May 23, 2019, 06:25:54 PM
I agree that it means not a real woman either, and that's great to hear it from someone on here because many MANY other people would call that horribly transphobic, and yet... it's really not; it's called reality.  But just because that's what is what, I don't feel like I'm lesser for it at all; no more than a banana is "lesser" than a kiwi; that aspect of it is subjective.

What, in your opinion, manifests a real woman?  Female reproductive organs?  Some cis women are born without functioning ones!  Other had them removed at some stage of their life.  are they real women?  Or is it socialization that makes a real woman?  Some MtF transgender kids were socialized like girls, are they real women once grown up?

What is this fictive real woman figure?  Am I a real woman (made into a man, but never developed any secondary male sex characteristics, and now being a woman, which fits my body way better), I have an ovary, if that counts for good measure!  And during the first 6 years of my life i was raised identically to my sister, which means, part of my socialization was female.  What am I in your eyes?

This fictive real woman stuff is really bothering me (and probably many trans women), because I feel like a real woman (like many older real women, I wish I would be younger), my female friends treat me like a real woman, and my hormone levels are that of a real woman.
What is it that makes real women real and trans women unreal?