Quote from: Jessica on May 01, 2019, 06:34:20 PM
@steph2.0

Wow Stephanie, great news about your prescription!
I had not known that progesterone cream would help with facial feminization.
Very, very interesting.

It was a surprise to me, too. To quote from Dr. Powers' latest presentation:

Quote
Topical Progesterone

I have this compounded for my patients. They apply XXmg to alternating breasts daily and once weekly to the face for adipose redistribution and facial feminization. I've had OVERWHELMINGLY [emphasis his] positive results with this...

I'd never heard of using it on the face before, but he was absolutely correct in the effects of oral versus injectable estradiol in my case, so I've learned to trust him. I'm going to try it, starting tonight. I hope he's right again...


Stephanie

Dr Powers is a saint...

Quote from: DebbySoufflage on May 01, 2019, 09:37:31 PM
Micronized progesterone ( Prometrium / Utrogestan / Progestogel ) is a powerful DHT-blocker.
Applying it to the face may slow down the hair growth on the face. It also additionally softens the skin, above the softness you already get from E.

Dr Powers Will let's his patients use micronized progesterone rectally to have it function as an anti-androgen through it's antigonadotrophin qualities.

The role of progesterone in fat redistribution is rather unclear currently.
There is evidence to suppose that it helps with maturization of breast tissue and it has mental benefits when taken orally, by breaking down into neurosteroids like allopregnanolone that work on the GABA receptors in the brains and can antidepressant effects and sedative effects. Some people also report a higher sex drive on micronized progesterone.

Progesterone is the building stone for all other main steroidal sex hormones ( testosterone and estradiol ).

Progesterone is also a great way to combat acne.

That could be reasons to apply it to the face.

Currently fat redistribution or feminization of the weak tissues on the face by influence of micronized progesterone is not supported by any scientific source.

Kind regards,
Debby

It seems as if all those uses of progesterone are recommended for persons whose bodies still produce measurable quantities of testosterone.
Or did I miss the evidence of possible outcomes of it with people who have no body own testosterone anymore?

I applied the micronized progesterone cream to my cheeks last night, and wished I would not have done it.  My face had an uncomfortable burning sensation for about two hours after this, and I had difficulties to fall asleep because of this sensation (Melatonin did the trick at the end).
Because of this, I would like to warn anybody with sensitive skin to think twice about putting this cream onto your face!

@steph2.0 @Laurie

Quote from: steph2.0 on May 01, 2019, 03:53:08 PM
I haven't posted anything substantial since this: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=245188.msg2237396#msg2237396. I thought I'd catch up a little.

Last week was my latest labs follow up with my primary doc, who is also handling my HRT. I presented him with some of the reports here, along with the presentation from Dr. William Powers, and he agreed to prescribe both the progesterone pills and the cream. I started taking the pills (as suppositories, as Dr. Powers suggests) two days ago. I just picked up the cream from the local compounding pharmacy today and will do the first application tonight.

I can't give strengths or dosages, 36 grams of the cream, apparently meant to last a month, cost me US$30.00. The instructions, right from Dr. Powers' presentation, are to apply the cream to alternating breasts daily, and to the face once a week. I had to out myself to the pharmacist because she was concerned about applying it to the face. When I reluctantly explained it was for facial feminization because I was trans, she said, "Oh, that makes a lot of sense. We'll have it ready for you to pick up soon."

My current measurements are chest 36 inches, bust 39 inches. I don't know how I would measure facial features, so that'll have to be guesswork, but I'll let you know of any progress on the breasts, or any other effects that I can attribute to the P.


Stephanie

Stephanie, you piqued my interest also with the recommendation of the prometrium taken as a suppository.  I talked to Laurie and she said that is how she used them.  The efficacy is reduced much like estrogen taken orally as it passes through your digestive system and through the liver.

I started this method last night and I'm curious if it will make a clear difference.  Though Laurie mentioned no side effects from doing it this way, that doesn't mean there won't be, positive or negative.

I Had an appointment with my endo last week, it was 6 weeks since my orchi and the reduced estradiol dosage. My estradiol was down to 32. So I was able to double the dose will do lab work in 6 weeks to see where it is and increase again if needed until im at 150.   

   I asked her about the difference and the feminizing effects between pill/shot/sublingual . What she told me is there is a not difference in the feminizing effects between any of the methods. If your blood levels are 150 you will feminize the same no matter how you got to that level. It is all in the overall E in your system.
   Some  methods are easier on the liver if you have other health issues may consider a different approach but because I do not have any health issues in that regard taking the pill form for me at least would be fine.

      Also once my E levels are up to where they should be again she will give me a prescription for progesterone. Im with Kaiser Permanente apparently they only give it for provera covered under insurance but would give me one for promethium if I wanted but would have to pay out of pocket.I have never heard of putting it on your face as a cream until today.

   I know I have heard others say they feminize differently taking estradiol in shot form, what my endo said sounds like it makes sense to me and seems reasonable.

Anyone else have another opinion?

Quote from: Quinn on May 03, 2019, 05:24:24 AM
...... Im with Kaiser Permanente apparently they only give it for provera covered under insurance but would give me one for promethium if I wanted but would have to pay out of pocket.I have never heard of putting it on your face as a cream until today.

Hey Quinn,  I have Kaiser too and worked with the local and national Kaiser team for transgender care.  Some of us have different policies and coverage options and obviously different providers.  My provider has been very accommodating with my treatment needs and I went from cycling progesterone to once daily.  We are all so very different and I have heard anecdotal reports of individuals doing better on each form of estradiol delivery.  Best to you

Hi all, I need some help and understanding of all the experienced progesterone-istas here.

I had to go to my family doc today (he is an internist and happens to also be German), and i took the progesterone research info with me, to show it to him.  He was very interested in this, and told me that he has zero experience in this entire field.  I told him that my endo would not prescribe the stuff to me, and he said why not, with that documentation it just makes sense that you take it.
I am now the proud holder of a prescription for a 90 days supply of Medroxyprogesterone in tablet form to be taken twice a day.
Is that the stuff you take, for the case you take the pills, and how do you take it?  As I said, my doc had no idea about it and trusts me to find the best way for me (fellow German medical persons, as we are).  Would I take those pills sublingual like the estrogen, probably at the same time as the E stuff, or a little time shifted?  Are those the type of pills that give a real good night rest if taken prior to going to bed?  How long before bedtime?

And if I start taking them tonight, will my boobs be double in size by morning?

As you can see, i have questions over questions and need your guiding hand here!

I was hoping to be more buxom than Salma Hayek by now but alas not yet. (LoL)

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Quote from: Kirsteneklund7 on May 06, 2019, 08:07:01 PM
I was hoping to be more buxom than Salma Hayek by now but alas not yet. (LoL)

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

It is very hard for me to make a judgement about this, because I don't know Salma Hayek!

Quote from: Dietlind on May 06, 2019, 08:17:41 PM
It is very hard for me to make a judgement about this, because I don't know Salma Hayek!

What! You don't know how to Google?

Quote from: GordonG on May 06, 2019, 08:21:44 PM
What! You don't know how to Google?

My computer is to slow for that, after all, I am an old woman!

Quote from: Dietlind on May 06, 2019, 08:00:46 PM
Hi all, I need some help and understanding of all the experienced progesterone-istas here.

I had to go to my family doc today (he is an internist and happens to also be German), and i took the progesterone research info with me, to show it to him.  He was very interested in this, and told me that he has zero experience in this entire field.  I told him that my endo would not prescribe the stuff to me, and he said why not, with that documentation it just makes sense that you take it.
I am now the proud holder of a prescription for a 90 days supply of Medroxyprogesterone in tablet form to be taken twice a day.
Is that the stuff you take, for the case you take the pills, and how do you take it?  As I said, my doc had no idea about it and trusts me to find the best way for me (fellow German medical persons, as we are).  Would I take those pills sublingual like the estrogen, probably at the same time as the E stuff, or a little time shifted?  Are those the type of pills that give a real good night rest if taken prior to going to bed?  How long before bedtime?

And if I start taking them tonight, will my boobs be double in size by morning?

As you can see, i have questions over questions and need your guiding hand here!

The stuff you was prescribed is the type that has been linked to breast cancer.

You really want micronized Progesterone.

Search the web, read Beverly Cosgroves site and Dr. Powers info.  The article Stephanie posted is based on micronized Progesterone.


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@Dietlind

Quote from: Dietlind on May 06, 2019, 08:00:46 PM
Hi all, I need some help and understanding of all the experienced progesterone-istas here.

I had to go to my family doc today (he is an internist and happens to also be German), and i took the progesterone research info with me, to show it to him.  He was very interested in this, and told me that he has zero experience in this entire field.  I told him that my endo would not prescribe the stuff to me, and he said why not, with that documentation it just makes sense that you take it.
I am now the proud holder of a prescription for a 90 days supply of Medroxyprogesterone in tablet form to be taken twice a day.
Is that the stuff you take, for the case you take the pills, and how do you take it?  As I said, my doc had no idea about it and trusts me to find the best way for me (fellow German medical persons, as we are).  Would I take those pills sublingual like the estrogen, probably at the same time as the E stuff, or a little time shifted?  Are those the type of pills that give a real good night rest if taken prior to going to bed?  How long before bedtime?

And if I start taking them tonight, will my boobs be double in size by morning?

As you can see, i have questions over questions and need your guiding hand here!

In the paper at the beginning of this thread micronized bio-identical Progesterone is suggested.
"Progesterone" refers to the hormone produced in the body, or produced from a plant source but still chemically and structurally identical to human progesterone, and it is therefore referred to as "bioidentical" or "natural".
In contrast, "progestin" refers to a hormone that is synthetically produced and differs in structure from progesterone.

When discussing progesterone, it is important to understand the difference between natural progesterone and the synthetic progesterone analogs called progestins. One of the most common progestins, medroxyprogesterone acetate (Provera®), has been linked to blood clots, fluid retention, acne, rashes, weight gain, and depression.

Quote from: CindyLouFromCO on May 06, 2019, 10:43:49 PM

You really want micronized Progesterone.

I have to second that, Linde.

My doctor started me on the medroxyprogesterone after a year on spiro and estradiol.  I didn't ask for the micronized at the time because of relative costs and that I have tolerated every medication I have taken in the past. I did not tolerate the medroxyprogesterone.  I was having depression so stopped taking it daily after 2 months and tried 10 day per month cycling with the last 30 pills. Didn't like that either. She agreed to switch to the micronized last December and I've been taking it since with no issues.

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Quote from: Dietlind on May 06, 2019, 08:17:41 PM
It is very hard for me to make a judgement about this, because I don't know Salma Hayek!

  Kirsten - See below.






  I feel inadequate. ( LoL ).

   Kirsten x.

Quote from: Dietlind on May 06, 2019, 08:00:46 PM
Hi all, I need some help and understanding of all the experienced progesterone-istas here.

I had to go to my family doc today (he is an internist and happens to also be German), and i took the progesterone research info with me, to show it to him.  He was very interested in this, and told me that he has zero experience in this entire field.  I told him that my endo would not prescribe the stuff to me, and he said why not, with that documentation it just makes sense that you take it.
I am now the proud holder of a prescription for a 90 days supply of Medroxyprogesterone in tablet form to be taken twice a day.
Is that the stuff you take, for the case you take the pills, and how do you take it?  As I said, my doc had no idea about it and trusts me to find the best way for me (fellow German medical persons, as we are).  Would I take those pills sublingual like the estrogen, probably at the same time as the E stuff, or a little time shifted?  Are those the type of pills that give a real good night rest if taken prior to going to bed?  How long before bedtime?

And if I start taking them tonight, will my boobs be double in size by morning?

As you can see, i have questions over questions and need your guiding hand here!

A prescription for Besins micronised progesterone, " Prometrium " should be readily available with a prescription.

That is what I take every night just before bed. It does seem to have a sleep promoting effect.

It is the bio-identical type.

Kind regards, Kirsten.

As I said, my doc did not know about he stuff,  looked into the Merk register, and prescribed what he found.

Would it be critical or really bad to use the current supply for 90 days up, and after that switch?  I am pretty sure he will prescribe the other version, too.  But I don't think that my health insurance would to agree to an immediate switch!
What would you do, use the 90 days, or tell the doc after a week or two that I have bad reactions, and hope the insurance plays along?

I was so glad to finally get this prescription for the stuff!

My new avatar shows what it did to me just by looking at the pills!

Quote from: Kirsteneklund7 on May 06, 2019, 11:14:16 PM

Progesterone did that?   

  I get very concerned when I read here of sisters being proscribed medroxyprogesterone. Medroxyprogesterone is a PROGESTIN ie it is synthetic progesterone NOT bio-identical micronized progesterone. Many of doctors objections and fears come from a study of 2 hormones in menopausable women that showed a significant increase in DVT (blood clots) and possibly strokes/heart attacks. These two hormones that given together in the study (Premarin (an equine derived estrogen)) and (Provera (medroxyprogesterone))  is what caused the doctor's fear of blood clots if they proscribed it to us. Not only is the an old study that does NOT apply to the use of bio_identical estradiol or bio-identical progesterone (Prometrium), it lists several health problems that do not apply to the bio-identical hormones we are discussing here. If you read the paper it lists 6 possible benefits micronized progesterone could have for transgender women.
  Doctors should not be prescribing premarin or provera for us. Both are the cause of their fears. Always insist on the bio-identical hormones.

Quote from: Laurie on May 08, 2019, 12:34:33 AM
  I get very concerned when I read here of sisters being proscribed medroxyprogesterone. Medroxyprogesterone is a PROGESTIN ie it is synthetic progesterone NOT bio-identical micronized progesterone. Many of doctors objections and fears come from a study of 2 hormones in menopausable women that showed a significant increase in DVT (blood clots) and possibly strokes/heart attacks. These two hormones that given together in the study (Premarin (an equine derived estrogen)) and (Provera (medroxyprogesterone))  is what caused the doctor's fear of blood clots if they proscribed it to us. Not only is the an old study that does NOT apply to the use of bio_identical estradiol or bio-identical progesterone (Prometrium), it lists several health problems that do not apply to the bio-identical hormones we are discussing here. If you read the paper it lists 6 possible benefits micronized progesterone could have for transgender women.
  Doctors should not be prescribing premarin or provera for us. Both are the cause of their fears. Always insist on the bio-identical hormones.

Thanks Laurie
As I said, my doc does not know anything about hormones, specifically not with trans people.  He trusts me to handle this right, and gather all information I can get.  He looked into the Merk Register and that is what he found!

Do you feel that this stuff is so critical that I should stopp it immediately, or can I use the 90 days supply up, and switch thereafter to a micronized version?
To be honest, I am pretty excited that I finally could put my paws onto progesterone, because my endo does not believe in any benefits, not even the studies convinced him.  I am stuck pretty much in the non mans land of endos, and have o go with what I can get.

Again, if anybody feels I should stop the stuff immediately, I will do so!