I'm reading Dara Hoffman-Fox's book You and Your Gender Identity. I like that she describes three categories: mental, physical, and social. I've come up with the following for myself.

1. Mental: I believe my brain and emotions are female or at least 80%.
2. Physical: I want a semi-female body but not sure on genitalia.
3. Social: I am uncomfortable socializing as female in my current physical state.

What do you think of her book?

Quote from: amandam on May 24, 2019, 07:24:50 PM
I'm reading Dara Hoffman-Fox's book You and Your Gender Identity. I like that she describes three categories: mental, physical, and social. I've come up with the following for myself.

1. Mental: I believe my brain and emotions are female or at least 80%.
2. Physical: I want a semi-female body but not sure on genitalia.
3. Social: I am uncomfortable socializing as female in my current physical state.

What do you think of her book?

I haven't read her book, yet I can relate to your statements.

1.) Mental: I can say I'm now about 95% male   
2.) Physical: Still working on growing facial hair, will more than likely eventually have some genitalia work done
3.) Social: I'm out to everyone that knew me pre-T, those that know me only as male really have no need to know.

Sounds like a book I should read.

Ryuichi

Quote from: amandam on May 24, 2019, 07:24:50 PM
I'm reading Dara Hoffman-Fox's book You and Your Gender Identity. I like that she describes three categories: mental, physical, and social. I've come up with the following for myself.

1. Mental: I believe my brain and emotions are female or at least 80%.
2. Physical: I want a semi-female body but not sure on genitalia.
3. Social: I am uncomfortable socializing as female in my current physical state.

What do you think of her book?

Yes I bought the book soon after starting HRT. Full of good prompts for self examination.

It also discusses comfort and discomfort with respect to gender role.

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Quote from: amandam on May 24, 2019, 07:24:50 PM
Dara Hoffman-Fox's book You and Your Gender Identity.

This book is next for me. I am currently "reading", actually answering the questions, and learning about myself with Kate Bornstein's My New Gender Workbook.

I have watched many of Dara Hoffman-Fox's videos on YouTube, also learning from her.

One thing I'd like to see is more discussion of how people create justifications in their minds to transition or not transition.

Interesting and yes, for sure.

Mental: I have since I was in my late teens described myself as a "male brain in a female body" so i'd say yep, definitely not a girl mentally. Femaleness bewilders me, utterly.

Physical: I'm kinda accustomed to my body but I don't LOVE it. I really enjoy my masculine traits, not so much the feminine ones (like boobs). I can live like this, but i'm waaaaaay more comfortable than I ever have been dressed in men's clothing and with short hair and strapped down boobs. I mean it's astounding how much difference that's made. I'd say i'm kinda in the middle here. I'd like fewer obvious sex traits but I don't mind not looking 100% male male super male. I just want to be happy with how I look.

Social: I generally socialise male anyway and have done since I was about 12. All my friends are either male or very tomboyish women who don't expect me to be feminine. There are SOME things i'm going to find difficult though, hyper friendliness isn't generally as acceptable in males for example, nor is talking to random children (I love kids okay?). But ultimately i'm kinda accustomed to presenting as a very boyish girl anyway so it's not that much of a difference. Only thing that really changes is pronouns.

I have a fourth too.

Biochemical.

My body hates being female, it can't do female hormones at all. It sucks at it. It doesn't work properly due to several genetic issues and ultimately, it's caused massive biochemical confusion. To fix it I either saturate myself in feminine hormones that make me sick (legitimately sick) or I do what feels more natural, I take testosterone.
I feel like my biochemistry is as wrong as my physical but it's actually more acute than my external dysphoria so deserves its own category i think.
The fact that I find the effects of t on my system to be the few things about my body I LIKE and the fact that feminising hormones make me critically sick further suggests to me that actually, i'm not supposed to be female. And that brings me a degree of comfort and clarity.

Quote from: amandam on May 25, 2019, 11:00:06 AM
One thing I'd like to see is more discussion of how people create justifications in their minds to transition or not transition.

I think there may already be a thread discussing this.  If not, feel free to start one.  Its a discussion that I would be more than happy to join. 

Ryuichi

I haven't read the book.  But I agree with the three categories.

I have cured my social dysphoria.  Going full-time was the best thing I ever did!  That dysphoria is totally gone.

Getting rid of that one made me more aware of my body dysphoria.  It was always there, but it was minor in comparison to the social dysphoria.  But it is there, and I am working on getting something done about it.

Mental dysphoria - seeing myself as a woman when I was in the male role - was a tough one to diagnose, because my denial was so strong.  I couldn't feel it.  I could only deal with it intellectually, which is what allowed me to get the whole process started.  Feeling myself as a woman is becoming more normal now, and of course it is not dysphoric any more, because of my social transition.

Obviously, I'm transgender if I want a more female body and mentally think I'm female. But, I'm going to be cautious. If I don't need to "completely" transition, I won't. I'm taking finasteride for my prostate. If it has any feminization, no problem. I think the worst thing transgender people can do is think they have to go all in. On the other extreme, repression leads to obsession. Hence, my attitude toward finasteride. I am so 180 degrees from when I first came here. 

Oh man it definitely makes you more aware of other dysphorias as you address the big ones.

I mean, since I came out to myself and addressed my clothing and presentation i've noticed the chest dysphoria i've sort of bottled up since my early teens. I battled it badly when I hit puberty but when I realised I couldn't wish boobs away I suppose I sort of just bottled it up as a "can't do anything about it, just gotta live with it" thing.
And so I sort of ... forgot I hated them as much as I actually do till I started to dress masculinly and they're just.. there.
It wasn't ultimately till i bound them down and felt this rush of absolute euphoria at them being smaller and nearly flat (they're too big to flatten off totally without some solid binding that'll hurt my ribs) that I acknowledged "oh crud... I was doing a really good job of ignoring that dysphoria wasn't I?"

Husband said it's like when you cut yourself but it doesn't hurt till you notice you cut yourself (you know that feeling? where you're like "oh my hand slightly hurts.. wait.. it's bleeding..." and only then does it start to really sting?)

Dyphoria is like that. Once you notice it it stings.

and it's annoying because it'd be kinda nice to go back to ignorance and denial but at the same time I know that I only bottled it up because I didn't think I had any choice.

My chest dysphoria is NOT new, it's just something I learned to live with.
And I think that's the case for a lot of our various issues. you learn to live with it and so people don't realise you have it, so when you suddenly turn around and say "so... I have x" people are all "what? where'd that come from!??"

When you don't feel you can fix something, you just get on with life right?

My fear though is that once I get top surgery my brain will go "oh yeah, also this bit of you" and i'll develop other dysphorias I didn't realise I had.
which isn't gonna be fun.

Quote from: F_P_M on May 25, 2019, 06:37:57 PM


My fear though is that once I get top surgery my brain will go "oh yeah, also this bit of you" and i'll develop other dysphorias I didn't realise I had.
which isn't gonna be fun.

And this fear is well founded!  Take me as an example.  I did not have much dysphoria about my genitals, they were there and I and they did not interact much, we tolerated each other.  Great!  I thought that this would be go away fully once I had an orchiectomy.  I had to learn that this was not the case!  I had my balls cut away, which means the most important parts of a "man", and that should have one it.  Once all the packing and everything as removed and I could see the remaining little bit, my dysphoria grew into a real large thing!  Each time when I see my bottom in a mirror, I am almost ready to throw up!
I don't think this will go away, and only a full gender reassignment surgery will take care of this dysphoria!

Here I am, I thought cutting the balls away would do it, now i need much more cutting to be done between my legs to feel whole again!

The thought that the more you feminize, the more you get dysphoric is troubling. What if you found a way to cope with a little bit of dysphoria and therefore could prevent transition?

Quote from: amandam on May 25, 2019, 09:21:53 PM
The thought that the more you feminize, the more you get dysphoric is troubling. What if you found a way to cope with a little bit of dysphoria and therefore could prevent transition?

Good question Amanda. I found starting HRT reduced the dysphoria at lot, or at least made it easier to deal with.

I found physical dysphoria was quite tolerable with mtf hrt. Growing breasts and an androdgynous look was euphoric.

The social dysphoria is still there but I find interact more easily with the women so the edge is taken off the dysphoria

The mental side of dysphoria is still there and I havent resolved it. It does come and go as it always has. The overall angst is less with hrt though

Kind regards, Kirsten.

I agree with you, Kirsten.  A large part of my physical dysphoria went away once I started testosterone.  But to my dismay, different types of physical dysphoria took its place.  I didn't expect that.

I take my T in gel form, so I have to rub it onto my upper arms.  I noticed that I can no longer look at my unbound chest without feeling that "this is so wrong!"  I never really had that feeling before.  My face and beard makes my newly-discovered body dysphoria easier to deal with.  Before I started on T, I was more of the "I can't do much about this body so I might as well live with it" mindset.  Its all but gone now.  I will eventually have to have top surgery.  Bottom surgery for me is still up in the air. 

Social dysphoria is basically gone since moving to a new state.  But interactions with my family can and often does bring it all back.  For the most part, they refuse to see me as my true self.  Most of my friends back home haven't seen me yet, but I don't hide that I have transitioned from them either. 

My mental dysphoria is, like I mentioned above, still there, even if its not as bad as I know it could be.  It seems to worsen after interacting with family. 

I wonder if they've noticed that I don't interact with them as often, even if it is mostly via online, text or phone?  Probably not. 

Ryuichi

I haven't read the book but I can comment on those catorgories.

1) Social - Zero dysphoria completely solved
2) Physical - After Orchie and two years on HRT I like my body, Maybe I'd like to get rid of my scrotal skin but SRS not needed.
3) Mental - More complex. I'm getting there. Still a few little things to sort out.

I haven't read the book, but now its nice to know it exists, I might look into it as I explore a bit more as I get closer to beginning a transition. As such, I guess I'll give a pre-transition perspective, though I guess you all probably remember your own from my position. If not, perhaps it'll jog memories and make you glad you made the jump!

Mental: 90% male still, I've never felt 100% there.

Physical: I'm so annoyed and tired of having a bulge and getting erections! I want it to be nice and smooth and get to wear tight bottomwear, which looks so comfortable! I want shaping in the lower half, but am pretty indifferent about the top, though I do like the idea of being smaller and more fragile overall, strangely.

Social: I've played the not-quite-female role in conversations with guys, more passive and thinking on slightly different threads about the same subject. When with a group of girls I feel pretty natural, though get frustrated with the inability to connect on quite the same level due to the physical difference. It's the same story with romantic interaction, despite being a straight guy, I've always felt the shy "Someone will start something with me if they find me attractive.", it kinda started to work out once, but unfortunately it hasn't repeated because social expectations. Strangely I think I'll be more assertive in that matter once I feel like I have transitioned sufficiently to feel confident in my body.

Quote from: Ryuichi13 on May 26, 2019, 02:31:00 AM
I agree with you, Kirsten.  A large part of my physical dysphoria went away once I started testosterone.  But to my dismay, different types of physical dysphoria took its place.  I didn't expect that.

I take my T in gel form, so I have to rub it onto my upper arms.  I noticed that I can no longer look at my unbound chest without feeling that "this is so wrong!"  I never really had that feeling before.  My face and beard makes my newly-discovered body dysphoria easier to deal with.  Before I started on T, I was more of the "I can't do much about this body so I might as well live with it" mindset.  Its all but gone now.  I will eventually have to have top surgery.  Bottom surgery for me is still up in the air. 

Social dysphoria is basically gone since moving to a new state.  But interactions with my family can and often does bring it all back.  For the most part, they refuse to see me as my true self.  Most of my friends back home haven't seen me yet, but I don't hide that I have transitioned from them either. 

My mental dysphoria is, like I mentioned above, still there, even if its not as bad as I know it could be.  It seems to worsen after interacting with family. 

I wonder if they've noticed that I don't interact with them as often, even if it is mostly via online, text or phone?  Probably not. 

Ryuichi

That is interesting Ryuichi. I have heard T is a real silver bullet for FTM dysphoria. I bet you felt more at ease on many levels.

One thing that realy helped me was the the fact that I had a real aversion to the male equipment. I couldnt stand the sight of it amongst other things. Now with mtf hrt I know it is there but I can put up with it
Another bonus of HRT!

Like yourself HRT mitigated several issues for me. I guess growing into your male self makes having a bust really stand out as "not meant to be there".

Kind regards, Kirsten.

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Quote from: amandam on May 25, 2019, 09:21:53 PM
The thought that the more you feminize, the more you get dysphoric is troubling. What if you found a way to cope with a little bit of dysphoria and therefore could prevent transition?

I did for nearly 60 years, crossdressing where I could, and sharing my secret with my wife for the past 20 years. I felt I was managing my dysphoria ok, and really didn't plan on transition. But a couple of years ago my dysphoria started to increase ( as my T decreased ) and I started to have bouts of depression. This led to a long illness, and my medical staff agreed that I needed to transition. Within a couple of weeks of HRT I got over my illness, and I have never felt better!

Mental : I'm at 80% female also

Physical : I have a long way to go, and maybe won't get there, but need GRS. I have body dysphoria, so this will be my greatest challenge.

Social : Funny one this! I'm not out formally, but my behaviour causes most people who know me to treat me as female. So I don't feel under as much pressure to be socially accepted in a physical sense as I am already relating as female.

Great thread!

Allie

I feel like once I start getting a hairy chest, the boobs will just look even MORE wrong and annoy and disgust me that much more.
Argh.

I mean thankfully I can kinda ignore the undercarriage because I can't see it lol. It's all hidden away. If it's not hurting me I can very much forget it exists.
unfortunately I get a lot of pain in that region because my body sucks and wasn't constructed correctly. *sigh*
and i'm not sure they can actually fix it either. Drat. I keep hoping they'll figure out a way to stop the random pains but sadly I think it's a congenital issue that nothing can really help. Bah.

I had a horrible dream last night that I transitioned and things got worse due to societal gender expectations I couldn't meet. Like, I got yelled at and called a pervert for smiling at and talking to a toddler, some guys on the street yelled slurs at me for dressing in a floral shirt and my husband and I could no longer be affectionate in public without facing abuse.
I woke up kinda upset. And to be fair these ARE legitimate concerns. I'm giving up cis straight passing privilage here, and damn I get a LOT of privilage being a cis, straight passing, white female. Like you can be SUPER WIERD as a white chick and nobody bats and eyelid, they just think you're quirky and eccentric. I can walk home with a giant plastic horse under one arm and people smile at me. As a guy, I suspect i'll just get strange looks like "why the hell is that man carrying a giant plastic horse around?"

I mean, i've always lived with this attitude of "no shame". I'm the sort of person who'll stroll into the gents wearing a dress because screw it there's a long queue and I need to pee and there's no law that says I can't. I will wander around dressed as a pirate just because I felt like it that day.
I mean, i'm VERY WEIRD. And I don't intend to stop being wierd just because my gender marker changes.
But I suppose my subconcious wanted to bring up these fears. *sigh*

I am leaving a world where I have had it pretty good. I mean i've never really been prejudiced against for being female, i've never really encountered institutionalised mysogyny. I've lived a fairly charmed life in that respect. I've been allowed to do whatever regardless of whether it's "gender appropriate" without question, without criticsm and that's why i don't really HAVE social dysphoria.
But i'm worried i'll give myself social dysphoria by becoming a guy who happens to have a small number of typically feminine interests. Because you see, it's absolutely FINE for a girl to like typically masculine things. My love for Star Wars and D&D and vintage cars and trains and dinosaurs is FINE. But a guy liking typically feminine things is still regarded is strange and wrong by our society. So i'm gonna go from a situation where I can gush about victorian engineering and messing with trains and being seen as "kinda cool" to being frowned upon because the ONE damn feminine interest I happen to have is dolls. (which is hilarious because I didn't like dolls as a kid, go figure. I mean to be fair I paint them and restore them so it's more an art hobby anyway but yeah)
And there are a lot of male doll collectors sure, but yeah, they all get wierd looks in toy stores.

And as a member of the trans community AS WELL my refusal to bow to gender norms is also a problem. Gender norms are toxic and stupid and I hate them, but a lot of trans guys especially cling to them to pass. My refusal to do that means I keep getting my identity questioned. "are you sure you're trans? You like these feminine things" and so on.
which is frustrating and difficult.

Eugh.

Does anyone else have next to no social dysphoria prior to  transition? Because seriously, mine is like.. entirely physical, mental and biochemical. I feel like i'm running on the incorrect fuel, that something went horribly wrong when I was developing and resulted in me developing the wrong way. But socially i've been allowed to be "one of the guys" for so long that it just isn't even an issue socially. My friends have always just accepted that I have a male brain and i'm a kinda flamboyant guy in a female body. We talk about sex, we talk about girls, we talk about politics and building sheds (seriously one of my friends went off for like an hour about a shed and it was hilariously domestic and I couldnt not laugh at how much of a domesticated husband he'd become lol)

I mean damn, nobody's ever even dared try to mansplain something to me or questioned my geek cred! Sometimes I feel put out by that, like they can sense i'm not really a girl or something lol. Husband says it's because my default expression looks like i'll tear the entrails out of anyone who talks to me but I dunno man. I find it odd that literally every other girl i've ever known in geek circles has complained about guys treating them a certain way and i've never ever had that happen to me. I mean it's awesome, but it's also really wierd. Why the heck have I never had these situations happen when presenting as female? I get asked about sodding rugby more than I get asked to prove my geek cred! and I hate rugby! lol.

Maybe I exude too much manliness. Yep, that's what i'm gonna claim anyway.

I really do hope hrt and top surgery makes me comfortable in my own body though. I mean dang, i'm so looking forward to wandering around shirtless and swimming comfortably (I haaaaate female swimsuits, they make me feel so uncomfortable and always have) and being called sir. Oh and being able to actually grow a proper beard rather than the 12 hairs I usually get!
A lower voice I don't hate!

So much to look forward to.

But eugh social nonsense. I suppose it's just more motivation to keep fighting to break down gender barriers, destroy the narrow blue box boys are shoved into and continue to smash the patriarchy.

i am NOT looking forward to the homophobia, the transphobia, the toxic masculinity and the way mysogonistic society really hurts guys who don't conform. I'm not looking forward to it at all.

I guess I gotta make the call. What's worse. Social dysphoria and not fitting in (hah, i've never fit in) or physical dysphoria and just existing within a body rather than living.

Quote from: amandam on May 25, 2019, 09:21:53 PM
The thought that the more you feminize, the more you get dysphoric is troubling. What if you found a way to cope with a little bit of dysphoria and therefore could prevent transition?

Hello again Amanda

Oh Yes I did so for my entire adult life (say 1971-2017) by crossdressing and bodyshaving. I was indeed able to cope to some extent but was always depressed either in a mild "dulled" sense or sometimes in a painful and hurt sense. I knew I was simply existing as opposed to living. However when I took early retirement my GD became more dominant and it was not going to go away and hence I was forced to seek help by therapy followed by HRT.

Similarly to Allie, I have always felt female and I was reasonably satisfied in the knowledge that I knew that even though most others did not know it. So the mental side do not particularly bother me previously. However when I started HRT, I soon felt a great sense of peace and knew I was on "the right fuel". So in hindsight perhaps the mental side did bother me but only subconsciously.

The physical side has always troubled me significantly of which the worst has always been the body hair followed by my genitalia - the latter small but still something I frowned upon. I have undergone BHR (Body Hair Removal) and expect in the long term I will require small depth GCS. I am happily asexual.

Socially I have always preferred female company but I realize that it will take time to be fully accepted by women into their circle and treated as such and possibly even longer to be perceived by women as a woman.

Hugs to all

Pamela  xx