Sorry if this has been covered in other posts, but I can't seem to find anything on it.  I notice that the SO's at Susan's are usually WIVES of M2F's.  As transition starts, what usually happens with the HUSBANDS of F2M's?  Do they stay and go through the usual spousal angst (facing denial or sadness or wanting, in this case, the HIM part of the F2M dead)?  Or do they just leave?

I wonder if it's harder to be a HUSBAND of an F2M than the WIFE of an M2F?  I ask this for two reasons:  (1) Husbands prize the beauty of their wives (yeah, I know it's shallow), and (2) the thought of this turning from a normal (F & M) heterosexual marriage into a gay (M & M) marriage is going to freak a lot of husbands out due to homophobic concerns drilled into most males since childhood.  As much as my ex protested, "I'm not a lesbian!", I ponder if many husbands of F2M's just take off -- before anyone finds out.  Society seems to be a bit more accepting of two women living together than two guys.  And, according to a post in the SO section of Susans, WIVES of M2F's sometimes report feeling less "feminine" with their (now) female spouse.  Do HUSBANDS of F2M's question their "manhood" if they find themselves living with a man?  Or do a lot of F2M's come from lesbian relationships?  Sorry if this is a silly question but it just occured to me that there's this other group, F2M's, that might, like us, have spousal problems during transition.

What's your experience or what have you heard?  Are there husbands that "stand by their man?"  I'd like to think so.

Teri Anne

From what I've heard F2M's are almost exclusive attracted to women.  I have never heard of onehaving a male husband.

Melissa

I've heard of lots of gay FtM's. And many do have husbands before transition. Not that many stay, it appears (from anecdotal evidence). It's not just your wife becoming a man and less attractive, it's you suddenly being seen as a gay man when you've been a straight guy all your life.

The only ones I've heard of staying and being able to hack that (and we all know how straight guys are about being called gay) are those who self-identified as bi before transition, and those who were gay and found themselves inexplicably attracted to "a woman". There probably is the odd straight guy who's man enough to stick it out, but they seem rare from what I've seen on the boards.

And, to be honest, having sampled straight white guy privilege myself, I can see what they think they'd be missing. Not that I'd make that same decision myself, but it is a hard island to swim off.

Plus, a lot of trans->-bleeped-<-s I know go through a stage where they are just enjoying the completely casual gay male sex scene too much to be partnered.

I don't know of many male-male relationships that have survived transition between those factors.

Dennis

Hi Teri,
That was a question my wife asked me when I told her about rana. "How would you feel if I decided that I wanted to wear mens clothing, would you put up with that". (I had this sudden feeling that she may have been serious)
I was going to say that I would understand - but in honesty I would not like it at all, as I would feel I was gay. So in my situation you pondered correctly.
Made me feel that I was being unfair & selfish

Rana, my ex asked that question of me, too.  And I felt the way you felt.  Maybe, in time, I could have overcome those feelings but I have no idea.  I grew up in a society where men kissing men was "ewww" and women kissing or hugging each other was FAR more tolerated. 
And, of course, heterosexual women are usually not looked upon as strange when they kiss or hug their heterosexual woman friends.  Every time I see two little girls walking hand in hand down a street, I think of how different things are for guys.

Teri Anne

Teri,

Your question brought up another thought in my mind. For most of us we have always known who and what we were, and for some it has always been obvious even to those who did not know us that we were not as we should be. Which leads me to wonder how many spouses kinda knew and went with us anyway? Maybe it was on a subconcious level but....still?

Cassie

CASSIE, yes, I've wondered that, too.  I know my ex, AFTER the fact, said that I wasn't like men that she knew.  And she wondered whether there'd be a man out there as kind as I was (her words).  Needless to say, I didn't feel so kind inflicting this TS stuff on her after nearly two decades of living together.  I think there's a song with lyrics that go something like, "You always hurt the one you love."  That's probably because, when you give love to someone else, YOU become more vulnerable.

But, to answer your question, given my ex's suspicious nature (she still wonders if this TS thing is just an obsession), I would think if she saw that she was living with a kind, non-agressive, non-judgemental man, she'd presume that all that proves is that all men aren't dogs and that stereotype generalization of men being neanderthals isn't necessarily true.

DENNIS, one thing caught my eye in your post that started me thinking.  You said, "It's not just your wife becoming a man and less attractive."  M2F's are often accused of transitioning to get more attractive bodies.  I fought that stereotype while, inside, pondered whether outer beauty WAS part of what I sought -- not the only thing, but PART of the equation.  I will also admit that I don't know a lot about F2M's but I'm learning...  As I've said before, one thing that gave me comfort when I was transitioning was the fact that F2M's were going in the opposite direction.  Your statement above, Dennis, perhaps intimates that you feel that a female transitioning to become a male loses beauty?  Or maybe your comment, "...your wife becoming a man and less attractive" is only related to how the husband views that process, not you as an M2F.   

So, Dennis, is it hard for F2M''s to transition when you'all know society feels you are giving up natural beauty?  I know you like the seriousness, the power and the casual comfort that men have.  But did YOU ever think, on OFF days (presumably we all have down days) as you transitioned, that maybe you were losing some of your beauty?  "Am I doing the right thing?"  (Or as you described it above, becoming "less attractive")  I only ask because I presumed that F2M's feel they are becoming MORE attractive, not less.  Sorry, again, if it's a silly question, but I'm always learning. 

Despite my wordy mumbling around the issue above, I think most F2M's ARE cute.

Teri Anne

QuoteM2F's are often accused of transitioning to get more attractive bodies.  I fought that stereotype while, inside, pondered whether outer beauty WAS part of what I sought

Really! I haven't encountered that myself, nor given it much thought. But then compared to you I haven't been transitioning as long.

Cassie

Teri Anne, when I spoke of less attractive, I meant to the husband, not to the FtM. I certainly think I've become more attractive through transition. I like the way I look in the mirror these days and that hasn't happened for a long time.

If I had had any 'beauty' before (which I doubt, but I suppose it is in the eye of the beholder), I would have likely felt the same way about it as I did about having breasts. I know that when I did get compliments about something feminine I hated them and I hated the idea that I had anything feminine about me. Now I like compliments, although I do get embarrassed by them.

And the only comment I've had about losing anything like that was from my mother: You're going to ruin that beautiful skin of yours by getting whiskers? And I said, I certainly hope so. Unfortunately, that 'beautiful' skin has turned out to be a bit of a liability. As a friend pointed out, I always did look 10 years younger than I was. Now I look 20 years younger than I am. But then, my father also always looked young for his age and he was not in the least bit feminine.

Dennis

Dennis, thank you for confirming my feeling F2M's do feel, by transitioning, that they are going to look better.  This, to me, was the exclamation point in WHY TS's transition -- While M2F's may be echoing society's view that women are the pinnacle of beauty, F2M's are bucking that view because, to them, being male is more beautiful. 

And both sides are correct, for them.

Teri Anne

I'm a gay ftm with a husband. We've been together for eleven years, married for five. He's bi, and he knew before we started going out that I was trans, even though I wasn't passing or even trying to at the time. He was a bit disconcerted at first when I started passing and living full time as male, missed his hot girlfriend, but he got over it pretty quick, as he now has a hot boyfriend who isn't a suicidal alcoholic mess.

Jesse -- Thank you for contributing.  That's very interesting.  It's strange that much of American culture has not even considered the existence of a relationship like yours.  I can think of a lot of movies which have M2F women in them or an effeminate gay guy but I can't think of any movie which has an F2M who has a steady (11 year) relationship with a man.  "Boys Don't Cry" was about an F2M who dated women.  Most movies with F2M's have them dating women. 

Just when we think we've gone pretty far, you see how constricted society's thinking STILL is.

Teri Anne

I don't find it so strange, as I've never even heard about any kind of relationship like mine. I know of plenty of other gay ftms, but none with such a long relationship, and lasting through transition. Though technically I guess I'm not transitioned, as I've had no surgery nor even started hormones yet. But I pass and live as male, it just ain't legal yet. And I worry about that, because he depends on my job for health insurance and all, and I don't know if after I LEGALLY transition (which I'm desperate to do) we'll still have these marital benefits. Society's constricted thinking sucks    We consider myself a gay male. But for all legal intents and purposes I'm a married het female. And we hold a whole ->-bleeped-<-load of guilt for taking advantage of that. We wouldn't have, but when I joined the army we decided we oughta get hitched, hell forbid anything happen to me. Neither of us can rely on our families, all we have is us. So here we are, a legally married man and woman who are actually homosexual lovers.