I'm trying to fully understand what happens to a relationship as
you transition.

Did your wife have trouble being with "another women" ?

If so, when did it start?

Did she complain about your dressing or makeup?

What were the first clues she was not comfortable?

Did she stop wanting to be intimate or did you?

Amanda

at first she was happy with it...
at first she encouraged it....
It was fun and exciting...
It was beyond amazing...
then she met someone else... I knew something was wrong, just not what...
Our love life dwindled... it took allot of effort to get things going...

Did your wife have trouble being intimate with you as a woman? 

Never had one.....and the question doesn't relate to me...

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 21, 2008, 11:49:29 PM
Did she stop wanting to be intimate or did you?

I never really dressed up before transitioning, so that wasn't a problem, but...

Before transitioning, she was attracted to me (for my being a guy), but the problem was *I* didn't want to be desired as a male, sooooooo... sex was rare, and usually ended with us being annoyed at one another. She wanted to be intimate, but I just couldn't find a way to resolve my own needs and desires with hers. We both wanted the same thing: to be desired as females by a male. We tried a few.... uhm... "workarounds," but we both just felt stupid doing that. It didn't change the facts of who we were.

Her attraction to me pretty much fell apart when I told her I was transitioning, and we both started realizing how pervasive the GID had been throughout our marriage, and especially what it had done to our attempts at intimacy. Somehow in her head it all "clicked," and she realized she'd been trying to have sex with a female all this time - not as an "idea," but as a reality. She felt foolish, retreated from me totally, and still resents me for not facing those facts sooner.

What surprised me is that even simple, platonic, physical *affection* is gone now. There's a line Jennifer Boylan wrote in her book, "She's Not There," where she describes her wife's reactions to her touch as, "endured, not enjoyed." That's exactly what became of us too. No more hugs when leaving for work, no more reassuring touches to the arm or stroking the hair. I make it a point to touch her those ways, but there's no reaction, no response. She sorta just waits for it to be over.

Be Care What You Wish For I guess, as we now just live as two (platonic) girlfriends who love and care for one another, sharing a life and home, but without intimacy or affection.

~Kate~

Quote from: Berliegh on April 22, 2008, 08:46:32 AM
Did your wife have trouble being intimate with you as a woman? 

Never had one.....and the question doesn't relate to me...

That being so, why bother to answer then?



Much the same as Lynn's experience. All excited about it at first, but about one year later she was against it and two months later had left the house, leaving me with the boys. That was actually pretty cool.

The older son lives with her and her boyfriend now. He has a NJ school to assist him academically and it was easier to keep him there than to set up the same thing in PA so he lives in NJ.

She did do my injections for the first nine months of those. We do much better seeing each other once a week briefly.

N~

Quoteat first she was happy with it...
at first she encouraged it....
It was fun and exciting...
It was beyond amazing...
then she met someone else... I knew something was wrong, just not what...
Our love life dwindled... it took allot of effort to get things going...

That sounded so promising until I got past the amazing... I'm so sorry Lynn .

QuoteHer attraction to me pretty much fell apart when I told her I was transitioning, and we both started realizing how pervasive the GID had been throughout our marriage, and especially what it had done to our attempts at intimacy.

I think I've just begun to realize how pervasive it's been for me too... of course like Wing Walker said, once you
point out those differences to your SO everything changes. I've been able to deal with intimacy using a very active
imagination so it's never been a big deal. But I recently read that a sexless marriage is one where the frequency
is less than once a month... I doubt on average we've ever been that active but it worked for both of us and
continues to.

QuoteMuch the same as Lynn's experience. All excited about it at first, but about one year later she was against it and two months later had left the house, leaving me with the boys. That was actually pretty cool.

Do you think the physical changes then are what really causes the problems? When she can finally see the female
face, the breasts the body?

Actually it does sound kinda cool to have young kids and be able to be the "mom"... that would be awesome in a
lot of ways.

Amanda

I told my wife before we married about my feelings.  At first she supported me and even helped.  As time went on and the children got older she started to object.

She has stated that she is not a lesbian and does not want a lesbian relationship.

Sarah L.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on April 22, 2008, 09:37:33 AM
I told my wife before we married about my feelings.  At first she supported me and even helped.  As time went on and the children got older she started to object.

She has stated that she is not a lesbian and does not want a lesbian relationship.

Sarah L.

yep, this has been pretty much my experience now too. i think it sad that all she would think about how people see us when we go out as automatically being lesbians. she should realize everyone doesn't think that way.


Best Wishes,
Warrior Princess Mickie

Quote from: Princess Mickie on April 22, 2008, 11:10:29 AM
i think it sad that all she would think about how people see us when we go out as automatically being lesbians. she should realize everyone doesn't think that way.

No one perceives my wife and I as being a couple anymore. Which is kinda sad in a way. Even people who KNOW us don't, which is really odd... to the point of discussing the "ickiness" of lesbian relationships in front of us just as casual conversation. Not being mean to us, it's just that I suppose we don't give off the "vibes" of being a couple anymore. People who DON'T know us apparently just assume that we're just two women living together, but not "together." Which is true.

We used to stick together at weddings and family gatherings and when with people, but... not anymore. We pretty much go our own ways once there. That made me sad at first, but now it seems... inevitable and appropriate. Kate... well, Kate is her own person, as we're both discovering.

Same with things like shopping. We'd always shop together, and checkout together. Not anymore. We might cooperate a bit when shopping, but more "hey! look at this sale over here!" more than walking around as a couple. And we checkout as separate people, as friends out together... not a married couple.

Oh yes, things change...

~Kate~

Mine is extremely homophobic. She gets very angry if you say the word "lesbian" around her-- let alone actually be it. This marriage is doomed, obviously.

During the first year after I came out, my libido crashed to nearly nothing and sex became very infrequent, maybe once in 2 or 3 months. She wanted me to give it to her the male way-- I complied with that less and less, and once I'd started HRT that was history. I wanted it the lesbian way but our experiments along those lines didn't lead anywhere--I would not want to make her do anything she felt uncomfortable with. The last time we really went for it was almost 3 years ago. Now we sleep in separate bedrooms.

I'm the one who isn't comfortable with heterosexual intimacy, I refuse to be cast in the old male role ever again. I was never any good at it to begin with, and am relieved to be over and done with it. Obviously, I have sworn off sex entirely until after my SRS.

QuoteMine is extremely homophobic. She gets very angry if you say the word "lesbian" around her

That gives me a glimmer of hope Hypatia. My SO has always been open to other females... I think I posted
a story here a while back where early in our relationship we had cheated on each other with the
same girl. And she often comments on how pretty or attractive other women are. In a lot of ways
I think the reason she was attracted to me was because I've never been a real macho guy. That's my hope
anyway.

But as I morph into a woman I wonder if those feelings will stay the same... the fantasy for her may
be better than the reality.

And all that revolves around attraction, it does not cover how she sees me in other areas of our life... and
that's just as big I'm sure.

Quote
During the first year after I came out, my libido crashed to nearly nothing and sex became very infrequent, maybe once in 2 or 3 months. I wanted it the lesbian way but our experiments along those lines didn't lead anywhere.

That is not too much more often than our frequency our entire marriage. It's obviously not been a priority for
either one of us I guess but we both enjoy it and found a way to make it fulfilling.

This may be more graphic than needs to be talked about but I've always wondered how "lesbian" our sex is. I've
never filled a typical male role in sex as I prefer foreplay and really prefer to be the "giver" and don't
really like being the "receiver" of foreplay. There is no nice way to describe that... sorry, but it's an important
point i think. She has always told me it's not about the "event" for her, (but it happens every time lol) just the
closeness and bonding is enough. And for me the feeling I get from her response is SO much more important than my
needs. So I think we may have been having somewhat typical lesbian sex our entire marriage but I guess I really don't
know what a normal sex life is ... LOL.

So yea... your post gives me hope, thanks

Amanda

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 22, 2008, 12:50:46 PM
And for me the feeling I get from her response is SO much more important than my needs...

That may change. I felt the same way, experiencing sex vicariously through my wife. It was the best I could do at the time with a male body. But as I became more and more comfortable with my own body, I also started allowing myself to truly feel and acknowledge my own needs, my own desires.

Because...

QuoteI guess I really don't know what a normal sex life is...

Me neither. IMHO, a lot of what we know, or THINK we know, are just convoluted compensations, trying to make sense of an impossible situation. And once we start solving the underlying problem... well, things may not always be as we once thought

~Kate~

QuoteThat may change. I felt the same way, experiencing sex vicariously through my wife. It was the best I could do at the time with a male body. But as I became more and more comfortable with my own body, I also started allowing myself to truly feel and acknowledge my own needs, my own desires.

[A BIG LIGHT BULB GOES ON]  Wow... I've never thought about it like that... I live so many things vicariously through her... why should
this be any different... LOL... thanks Kate I guess I assume too much that I'm going to remain the same through all this
and I guess that may not be the case.

QuoteIMHO, a lot of what we know, or THINK we know, are just convoluted compensations, trying to make sense of an impossible situation.

This is very true...

Amanda

Quote from: Nichole on April 22, 2008, 09:34:48 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on April 22, 2008, 08:46:32 AM
Did your wife have trouble being intimate with you as a woman? 

Never had one.....and the question doesn't relate to me...

That being so, why bother to answer then?


N~

Because I wanted to make the point that not everyone who is TS has been through the process where they wanted to marry a woman......

I felt it was wrong and I didn't want to put anyone through a lot of misery. I knew from an early age where I wanted to be and stuck to it...

QuoteBecause I wanted to make a point that not everyone who is TS has been through the process where they wanted to marry a woman......not everyone here lived through that male existance..

It sounds like your saying because we "lived through that male existence" and wanted to marry a women that
we cannot "be women". I was under the impression that sexual orientation had nothing to do with gender orientation

And why do you feel the need to make that point? Is it because you think we are not really TS if we are
attracted to other women?

QuoteI felt it was wrong and I didn't want to put anyone through a lot of misery. I knew from an early age where I wanted to be and stuck to it...

I bet for a lot of us here that married it was for one reason... we fell in love with a girl and before we knew what was happening
we were married. I wish I could plan my life better but that's just not the way it's ever worked for me... I live in the moment. I'm
really happy for you that you were able to make that decision... a lot of us were not able to summon that kind of courage
and have that kind of insight about our lives.

Amanda

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 22, 2008, 04:49:20 PM
It sounds like your saying because we "lived through that male existence" and wanted to marry a women that
we cannot "be women". I was under the impression that sexual orientation had nothing to do with gender orientation

And why do you feel the need to make that point? Is it because you think we are not really TS if we are attracted to other women?

Not at all.....being married and living a male hetro life is what most TS's have experienced....it's me that's the odd ball.....

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 22, 2008, 04:49:20 PM
I bet for a lot of us here that married it was for one reason... we fell in love with a girl and before we knew what was happening we were married. I wish I could plan my life better but that's just not the way it's ever worked for me... I live in the moment. I'm really happy for you that you were able to make that decision... a lot of us were not able to summon that kind of courage and have that kind of insight about our lives.

Amanda

Don't get me wrong....I lived with one girl for 9 years! It wasn't a sexual relationship, we were more like best mates......but I do understand some are pressured into situations like marriage by their families etc....

My reply is quite simple.  My wife, who had lots of gay and lesbian friends, tried to kill me when I mentioned I wanted to be a crossdresser.  Luckily, I wasn't diagnosed transsexual until half a year after we separated, or I probably would be dead now.

And then who would fix my husband's dinner?

Robyn

QuoteDon't get me wrong....I lived with one girl for 9 years! It wasn't a sexual relationship, we were more like best mates...

I'm finding that's kinda what we've been too... just did not know it

Amanda

Quote from: Robyn on April 22, 2008, 05:23:48 PM
My reply is quite simple.  My wife, who had lots of gay and lesbian friends, tried to kill me when I mentioned I wanted to be a crossdresser.  Luckily, I wasn't diagnosed transsexual until half a year after we separated, or I probably would be dead now.

And then who would fix my husband's dinner?

Robyn

I don't think gender dysphoria is based purely on cross dressing? There are many crossdressers who would never want to transition.

Quote from: Berliegh on April 22, 2008, 05:29:17 PM

Quote from: Robyn on April 22, 2008, 05:23:48 PM
My reply is quite simple.  My wife, who had lots of gay and lesbian friends, tried to kill me when I mentioned I wanted to be a crossdresser.  Luckily, I wasn't diagnosed transsexual until half a year after we separated, or I probably would be dead now.

And then who would fix my husband's dinner?

Robyn

I don't think gender dysphoria is based purely on cross dressing? There are many crossdressers who would never want to transition.

True.  I thought I was "just" a crossdresser.  Transition didn't enter the equation in my mind until I went to see a gender counselor after we had separated.