Interesting topics.  I learned stuff I didn't know yet.

It's interesting there's a meta-theme running through several similar topics here.  It seems we're searching for a physiological reason for our need to transition -- something that can be verified by an objective test.

I have my own take on this, but first I'd like to pose the question to tihe board -- Why do we search for this?

Karen

(note to admins/moderators -- feel free to move this to a new topic.  )

[edit] Your wish is my command - Steph [/edit]

Thanks, Steph!  A new topic it is!

K

Karen,

I think it comes down to the Wing-walker Rule: Never let go of what you have until you have a firm grasp of something else!

For me, having a physiological reason why I am transgendered (transexual?) is important because I am deviating from the norms of society.  Think about it, who in their right mind would go through all of this?!  Am I crazy, or is there a biological reason? 

The scientist in me demands data.

If this is a mental illness, then it can be treated.  It would probably also cost me my teaching license.

If this is a physiological condition, then it, too, can be treated.  It would also give me evidence to retain my teaching license.

I want (need?) to point to something and say to the world, "THis is why we exist!  This is why we are here!  This is why you must accept us!  This is why you must accecpt me!"

No, that is not honest.  That was a political speach.

The reason I want to know why is to justify my existance to me.

Chaunte

" -- I desperately want a physical it-can't-be-helped reason for TS to be found so I can get my discrimination/harassment exemption pass."

For me, this just about says it all.

It makes the "transition or die" choice more understandable to people.  They can relate to a dangerous physical illness that shows physiological evidence of its existence much more easily than a neurobiological condition that still has certain people in the medical community (Blanchard, Hughs, etc.) denying its reality. 

For something that shakes people's fundamental sense of being, the proof must be incontrovertable in order for it to be accepted.

Unitl then, we have to put up with it.

Or die.

helen

reasons for transition?  Is it of any real harm or injury to me?  Does it matter to anyone but myself and so few others?  All I can say is that transition is of absolute importance to me and must be accomplished for me to feel complete and whole within myself, to do nothing or allow myself to be seen or recognized as male with no restrictions is as bad as a shot to my own head.

I kid no-one about this.  I can't push the financial end for surgery at the moment and I must keep my end open and be ready dollar by dollar while waiting toward that end.  It matters not what strangers on the street see me as at this point in my life, I just hope they see female more then male but that of course is up to them and what they see and feel of me in thier own place and consequense, for those who see me as less then I would want them to, the fault is mine as well as thiers and the world consiquences of such a thing is about as relevant as the brand of beer they drink for a mid morning sip.  It has no real consiquence on the world about them in any world consiquence of true importance.

So yeah, there is no logical reason to others why  I would do this other then because it means something to me and the few others in my realm.

in all things ..... one does what one must do, despite others or thier ideaswhich are of so much importance to hier ideas of exccellancd and importancd to hier lives.

you don't have to undrerstand me at all,  Just stay out of my way .......

Terri Gene.

"you don't have to understand me at all,  Just stay out of my way ......."

"That's the way to say it."


Right on sisters.

Jillieann

Quote from: Karen on March 25, 2006, 12:30:33 PM
Why do we search for this?

I think it's because we are for the most part so sure of our true gender identity, and see the presence of male genitalia (and the effects of testosterone on the body) as a physical affliction. As Bree Osborne, Felicity Huffman's character in Transamerica says to the psychiatrist, "Don't you find it odd that plastic surgery can cure a mental disorder?"

We go along with the concept of Gender Dysphoria or Gender Identity Disorder because that's the way that treatment is made available. But we don't believe it.

By the way, my therapist mentioned the other day that Gender Dysphoria and Gender Identity Disorder will be removed from the DSM-V, due out in a couple of years, and replaced with a new set of disorders that will be described as reactions to the incongruity of our true gender and our genitalia. Has anyone else heard anything about this?

Annie

please excuse my current condition if i'm out to lunch here, but it seems DSM-V has been public for a few years now and is being used about as much as earlier versions.  Conditions in it do make it quite some easier to make it through for those who aren't 100% in  a solid mind about thier position though.

but then, people do a lot of things these days they don't really believe in, don't believe anything in it will slow or stop transitions any at all in the TS world.

Terri Gene

This may be a little off-topic, but maybe not. I have had people say "There are people all the time with physical disabilities who learn to live happily with their condition.  Why do you need to transition?"

My response to this is that other people can see these physical disabilities and make accomodations for the handicapped persons.  Generally people have lower expectations for somebody with a physical handicap. On the otherhand, other's cannot see a transsexual's disability because it is camouflaged so well by appearing as a normal person.  Many people don't believe you have any disability and therefore have the same expectations for you as a normal person.  Occasionally there are people who, once they learn of you GID, are sympathetic towards you, but many times there are rare gems.

Melissa

Quote from: Melissa on March 27, 2006, 01:44:50 PM
This may be a little off-topic, but maybe not. I have had people say "There are people all the time with physical disabilities who learn to live happily with their condition.  Why do you need to transition?"

My response to this is that other people can see these physical disabilities and make accomodations for the handicapped persons.  Generally people have lower expectations for somebody with a physical handicap. On the otherhand, other's cannot see a transsexual's disability because it is camouflaged so well by appearing as a normal person.  Many people don't believe you have any disability and therefore have the same expectations for you as a normal person.  Occasionally there are people who, once they learn of you GID, are sympathetic towards you, but many times there are rare gems.

Melissa

I'm neither disabled nor do I have a physical disability, and I don't see that any transsexual has any form of disability.  I'm perfectly normal except the body that developed was not the one my brain was expecting, it functions exactly as desined, it's just not mine.

Steph

Maybe disability was the wrong word.  Deformity?  Problem?  You get the idea though.

Melissa

I didn't know we needed a "reason" to transition.  I never searched for a reason to transition, it was just a necessity.  I didn't go to others and ask or tell me why, I just did it.

Out of a necessity to live.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on March 27, 2006, 03:20:46 PM
I didn't know we needed a "reason" to transition.  I never searched for a reason to transition, it was just a necessity.  I didn't go to others and ask or tell me why, I just did it.

Out of a necessity to live.

We aren't the ones who need reasons to transition -- its the others who need the reasons.  We're just searching for something that will satisfy them of the necessity that we transition.

If there's a physiological reason, it 'it can't be helped', then they have to leave us alone.  If 'it's all just in your head,' then we are weak or undisciplined or selfish or evil, and anything bad that others do to us, well, we 'deserve' it...

That's my take on it.  And it's been interesting to see your takes on it. 

Karen

Truthfully I don't give a #### about others anymore.  They aren't worth the effort it takes to try to get them to understand.  I am disgusted with society in general.

Nothing against your question Karen, I just have given up on the world.

Sarah

Terri Gene...

From what I've been able to find, the committees that will be writing the DSM-V are still meeting now; it's expected to be published around 2010.

By the way, I know it's been a while now, but I haven't had a chance to say welcome back! You had a lot of us rooting for you, and it obviously worked.

Annie

Actually, it appears it will be published in 2011.

For more information on the DSM-V, see: http://www.dsm5.org/

Click on Timeline to see more information about dates.

Melissa

Reasons to transition???  In my case it was the other way around.  I always found excuses to put off my transition.  After a while the lies just became intolerable and transition was just  my only option in I wanted to continue living.

tinkerbell

It's not finding reasons for ourself that we seek, but rather we seek reason to justify transition in other people's eyes.  Fortunately, this is unnecessary.

Melissa

When the 2X4 came slaming into my forehead I finally realized that transitioning was possible. I can do this, all it takes is a little money. I thought the therapist was just one little hurdle as I knew who I was. I really didn't need her, but society needed her. The money was the hard part, but not that hard, I would have maxed out everything I had. Time, I had to prepare my wife for what I was going to do, but had told her that I would be very sad if she left, but I had to do this. There was no choice and I didn't need a reason. Society can and did make up my reasons, but I didn't need one.
Sheila

Hi all,

Since i am a very literal person in terms of my perception sometimes, I must question the question itself, as it was written.

If one has to "Search" for "Reasons" to transition, then ***maybe*** it's something that is not at all appropriate for that person(s) (?).

From my own personal experience, i had to search for reasons to NOT transition, such as the very real potential loss of my marriage, my career, my home, and most of my family relations within a deeply conservative and often still deeply invalidating, denigrating, and frankly - quite abusive family environment, as directed towards me, even as an adult, until and still including this very moment. And i still do truly love them all, regardless.....i still deeply wish that understanding, openess, and honest straightforward communication could be a part of this family dynamic  - and still hoping - somewhere inside. I had hoped that maybe this will eventually trigger some of the necessary conflicts to bring out all the issues in my family to the table once and for all - this was actually one of my deeper personal reasons and motivations in "coming out", and beginning to deal with myself and all others openly, whether they liked it, or were prepared for it, or not...

Somewhere deep inside myself as a despairing child, I had always known what i wanted - burning me more deeply than almost anything else in my entire life, in almost every ounce of my entire being, since the earliest of childhood memories from about age 4.
I had to totally bury all outward vestige, conscious awareness, or even the hope of my feminine self-awareness, by age 9 or 10, in almost every way, including especially to my own self, just to survive my childhood, which had been already entirely physically, mentally, and emotionally traumatic and abusive in a multitude of ways.

As a result, i lived in confusion, (self)destructiveness, dysfunction, and self-doubt, for the better part of the next 25-30 years until i finally "re-awoke" as the result of massive personal loss and physical, mental and emotional trauma within the last few years.

This triggered the floodgates inside myself to literally break wide open as suddenly as if a light switch had been thrown in my mind and in my heart.

So many lost, buried, and repressed memories, emotions, self-connections, and deep self-awarenesses were restored to myself, in a virtual flood of awareness and emotion so strong and overwhelming, i simply could no longer contain it, and from then it didn't take me long to ***KNOW***, almost without any doubt or question whatsoever, that i would have to risk everything to finally be true to myself and all others in my life, and in the world around me.

I began my planning, and creating, and finding any support systems, entirely on my own, beyond flat broke, nearly crippled, and unable to work (much less even able to walk at times) in my chosen
(and ***SELF-EARNED***) profession, due to impending major back surgery.
I had to do this so entirely in secret, and many months prior to beginning the trauma of finally bringing the roof down on everyone in my life, because i knew without a doubt, what i would be facing as a result once i did so.

I *knew* that i would have to do so - i didnt need any reason, other than being true to myself and all others in my life, finally. No more baggage, no more games, no more holding back all of my thoughts, feelings and most natural self expressions - i had already tried that for most of my entire life thus far... and IT SUCKED worse than worse....

It was time - really and finally - to begin my own life and death struggle to be true to myself and all that i love, believe in, and hold dear, ***and worth it*** - regardless of the cost and potential loss...... 

To have to "search" for a "reason" to transition, would cause me to deeply question a person's motivations and reasons for doing such. This does not mean that i would condemn or harshly judge, but deeply and sharply question, yes.....

I ***conjecture*** that this is a process that should be entered with as full a measure of clear and unforgivingly honest self-awareness as possible, and that the reasons for so doing should be *fairly* to *very* clear to the person before beginning this particular journey, otherwise, would it not exponentially increase the risks of failure and deep self-harm to the person ?

***This is my own personal opinion, from my own personal experience***, as i would have never begun this process unless i was so entirely sure of the validity of it for myself that the risk of losing everything in my life, including my life, would be worth the step out of the airplane without a parachute, which is essentially what i did, and given my own personal life and family circumstance, continue to do in some ways, every day of my life, since then....

"Privilege" ? (as some have said) Hah !....
What an unbelievable joke...

"Ivory tower" -  as some recently accused me of living in or talking from - utter bullcrap and unfounded assertion.
Read my poetry, and then say that to me again.....

I had to fight, and hide deep inside myself, to survive my whole life until now, and i gave more important pieces of myself and my integrity as a person, away to others, for more reasons than i can even count until i began this.

I had to search for reasons to NOT transition, due to the mortal fear i carried with me (had been beaten and conditioned deeply into me), every day of my life, of just being truly open and honest with myself and all others.

This fear - of truly living - because THAT was exactly what i got beat down for the most while growing up - for expressing anything even resembling the natural, innocent, honest, and unconditional expression of nothing more than being ***MYSELF***.......

Here's the bottom line (other than self-congruence) for my reasons to transition. The reasons which i didn't EVER really have to search for, but deeply knew in my own heart and mind already -

It was time to stop living in fear....Fear that was given to me by others and that i have carried with me my ENTIRE life like a thousand pound lead brick around my heart and neck and spirit - time to give it all back to them.... let them carry it now - it's no longer my burden, no matter how much they all wish i would still continue to carry it for them.

Everything i have acomplished thus far - i have done almost ENTIRELY on my own.
NO ONE ever taught me how to dress, do my own hair and makeup, re-establish my own personal style as a girl - as a woman finally becoming. This has all come back to me as naturally in most ways, as a fish out of water gasping for life -and then finally finding and being put back in the stream that leads back to the ocean - the deep and crystal clear waters and currents of my own self...

Until just before i found Susan's place a couple of years ago, i had never known or even seen another person like myself in this life.


Lovingly always,
Respectfully,


ChefAnnagirl

Anna, I think a better title may have been "Why do we search for reasons to justify the need to transition?"  You were looking for reasons to not transition and by not finding anything convincing, you had justified it was necessary.

Melissa