(I'm not entirely new, but I think I had previously registered in the lost 4 years period)

Dear forum members,

I'm looking for your wisdom.

I'm hearing a lot of conflicting information about my current situation, while having trouble finding any dermatologists in my area that actually seem knowledgeable on this:

But basically, many laser hair removal websites especially regarding trans women seem to claim that dark hair can always be removed. Even the "worst" thick black hair. Only lighter hair or dark skin seems to be a problem, or when somehow the skin reacts too badly to higher power levels. None of these caveats apply to me.

Meanwhile, I've had multiple practitioners try with a laser that should have been in the 810-910nm range, and an nd:yag laser at >1000nm range at what they both claim is high intensity, and after great success at first, the other half of my hundreds of instances of black(!) hair just don't respond at all. Not even any thinning out, and we tried high power levels and my skin responds fine but the hair doesn't. The practitioners just shrug and in direct conversation, suddenly say that for some it just "doesn't work."

Are the practitioners likely to be wrong and incompetent, but both of them? It was two completely separate dermatologists, though, and I think both use this procedure at a really high volume. Or are the websites that claim it works even on thick testosterone hair just omitting the fact that sometimes it simply doesn't?

Basically, I'm wondering if I need to go for electrolysis after all. I wanted to avoid it since it might both be difficult with insurance being really confused about it, and also it might apparently cause minor scarring for many which I was hoping to avoid. But in any case, I was hoping for a better informed opinion since I imagine the practitioners may not want to admit it's perhaps their technique and not the approach.

Thanks so much for any responses!

Best regards,

E

Welcome back! One of our official greeters will be along soon, so I'll just skip to an answer...

No, it's not unheard of. I had laser treatments in many different areas. While laser worked great on body hair, it appeared to be useless on my neck and face. The hair would slough off in 7 - 10 days, but it always came back. After 10 - 12 facial laser sessions, I gave up and let my electrologist take care of it. Although electrolysis is slower and often more expensive, it can work when other options fail.

Scarring from electrolysis should be uncommon. I've been seeing the same electrologist for about 5 years, and I have no scarring at all.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

Thanks so much for the quick response!

It's all a bit strange around here. The weird thing is that no hair is ever falling out, not that I can tell. There seem no patches gone during the next 2-7 days, other than red skin basically nothing happens. And I've checked individual hairs with comparison photos to see if any were gone in the days after, but couldn't find any. It seems quite suspicious to me. But it did work initially, and reduced about 50% of the hair, so far permanently, and then it just stopped.

As for electrolysis, all trans women I know from my city who've had it have visible electrolysis scarring all over the area. It's subtle, but it doesn't seem like the practitioners around here know how to avoid it. So scar-free electrolysis doesn't seem to be an option around here.

I've resigned to a life permanently with make-up every day, but it's frustrating. Some activities like more intense sports are out of the question that way. Without make-up, I don't even make it 4 hours before it's visible again, so that doesn't work either. Oh well.

Hello e902t4j0924jt0, (how do you pronounce this name? Just kidding!)

I'm Lori Dee. Welcome back to Susan's Place!

Thank you for contributing to the discussions. The way that laser and IPL work is light energy travels down the shaft of the hair heating the follicle and destroying the root. The problem with facial hair and some others is that the root is too deep in the skin. The light energy cannot effectively travel that far to destroy the root, so the hair grows back. As Jessica stated, the only way to fix that is electrolysis where they use a tiny probe to zap the root with electricity. I hope this answers your question.

Since you are a returning member, perhaps you could stop by the Introductions Forum and introduce yourself and tell us something about you.

The site has changed, as have some of the rules. Please review the links at the end of this message, they include information that will help you navigate the site and use the available features. Please pay particular attention to the links marked in RED. When you reach 15 posts, you will be able to send and reply to private messages and you will also be able to add an avatar to your profile. Until then if you have any questions about the Susan's Place site and the Forums, please feel free to contact me at\~  LoriDee605@outlook.com

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@Sarah B
@Northern Star Girl

Hello e902t4j0924jt0

My name is Sarah B and I would also like to formally, Welcome you to Susan's Place!

I see that Jessica and Lori have also welcomed you as well.

There is no way that I'm able to pronounce your name.  What I would like to know is there some name that I or others could call you?  It would be nice if you can.

Jessica and Lori have indicated that laser treatments do not work all the time on all 'body' hair.  They have also provided some advice in this area.  There are too many variables, for the laser treatment to work effectively.  In the end 'electrolysis' is the only effective long term treatment of body hair that refuses to be removed by laser treatment.

Long time ago all I had was electrolysis and that was on facial hair.  It was totally removed after one and half years of treatment.  I never bothered about the rest of my body hair, basically only waxed my legs in the early years.  The hairs all eventually turned white and fine and I can hardly see them now.

Once you feel comfortable here, it would be appreciated if you add a little bit more about yourself in the other forums and threads.  I would appreciate it very much as, I'm always interested in learning something new about new members

In addition members of Susan's will more than likely will discuss problems or issues that are similar to yours as most have experienced these issues as well.

Take care and all the best for the future.

Once again, Welcome to Susan's Place!
Sarah B
Offical Greeter
@LoriDee
@Northern Star Girl
@ e902t4j0924jt0
@Jessica_Rose

Quote from: e902t4j0924jt0 on July 15, 2024, 05:42:46 PMAs for electrolysis, all trans women I know from my city who've had it have visible electrolysis scarring all over the area. It's subtle, but it doesn't seem like the practitioners around here know how to avoid it. So scar-free electrolysis doesn't seem to be an option around here.

I'm no expert on electrolysis, but I've been having electrolysis treatments since Jan 2017. The surgeon's staff was amazed when I told them how many hours of electrolysis I'd had. They said I had absolutely zero scarring. They were so impressed, they asked my my electrologists number!

We're all different, but I suspect the issue may be the technique used. Some electrologists are in a hurry and may use the highest settings. Although I have occasionally visited a local electrologist, the one I prefer is my original electrologist in Colorado Springs. After 700 - 800 hours of electrolysis (like me, my hair is quite stubborn), I only need to visit Colorado 4 - 5 times a year now. It's a long way to go for electrolysis, but I consider it a mini vacation because I get to visit with some wonderful friends.

I wish you the best of luck on your journey.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

@e902t4j0924jt0

Quote from: e902t4j0924jt0 on July 15, 2024, 05:18:27 PM(I'm not entirely new, but I think I had previously registered in the lost 4 years period)

If you are interested, your old posts may be recoverable. Many accounts were lost in the crash, but Danielle [Northern Star Girl], our Forum Administrator has been able to recover old accounts and their posts. If this is something you would be interested in, Danielle can send you an email for verification purposes and see what she can do. I'll tag her in this post so she is aware. Just let us know if this is something you would like.

Lori Dee

@Northern Star Girl
 

Something wrong with the laser equipment. A properly working class 4 laser on dark hair and light skin will give noticeable improvement if the intensity is high enough. Or there is some other factor involved. Hair too long, skin too dark, sunscreen or cosmetics on the hair, etc.

Hi E,

Thanks for your message. You've raised really important points. I'm still not quite clear if we are talking about facial hair or body hair? Facial is much harder to treat.

Electrolysis is better than laser. I want to put much better. Oh I just did. It also hurts a lot more! Seriously though, if you want to zap it fully then go for electrolysis with follow ups that take out the re-growth. Laser is the quicker and slightly less painful way to do it, but whatever IPL hype you get told or read, it simply isn't as good as electrolysis.

Electrolysis is very, very, good. I had 80 hours on my face and it has worked brilliantly. It hurts so something like Emla cream (lidocaine) will help somewhat.

I've never heard of scarring with electrolysis though. A competent professional shouldn't cause any scarring with it and would know when to back away from a patch. You'll get some soreness and redness for a day but I can't see why you should get scars from it.

xx

When I started getting my facial hair removed, I had some laser treatments as well as electrolysis.  The laser did seem to work on me, or at least help, but no one ever claimed that it would be permanent.  The thinking at the time (and still is, as far as I know), that one should not expect it to be permanent. 

So, yes,it is normal for laser not to work completely, even on dark hair.  For it not to work at all is probably less common, but not totally surprising.

I had the laser treatments just to get a jump start on removing my beard, because it was faster than electrolysis.  I discontinued them on the advice of the laser technician because my skin was starting to react to the laser.  I still have a big freckle on my cheek, the size and shape of the laser probe, after seven years.  As my facial hair got lighter with age, they would have had to increase the laser intensity, and that would not have been good.

I had five years of weekly and then monthly electrolysis, with an eight month gap due to covid.  I have no scarring at all from the electrolysis.  I think she was using the lowest power that would do the job in order to avoid scarring.  I just eventually got tired of going, and it was expensive.  She got rid of most of my hair over the five years.  I still need to shave a bit, but if I skip a day or two, it will not be visible.  It just bothers me because I can feel it.  I prefer the feel of smooth skin.

I would always recommend electrolysis rather than laser for permanent hair removal.

There are different methods of electrolysis. I believe Galvanic is the one with the highest risk of scarring. Most certified electrologists use thermal, galvanic, or blend depending on the skin they are working on. Yes, scarring is a risk, but using a qualified electrologist should minimize that risk.

Thanks so much about all the responses!!!   

(As for my old posts, I used the same user name back then but I didn't post terribly much, so it's not too important and doesn't need to be recovered. But I appreciate the offer!)

Quote from: BlueJaye on July 15, 2024, 11:17:08 PMSomething wrong with the laser equipment. A properly working class 4 laser on dark hair and light skin will give noticeable improvement if the intensity is high enough. Or there is some other factor involved. Hair too long, skin too dark, sunscreen or cosmetics on the hair, etc.

This part is why I posted here, just to clear that up. I'm willing to accept that my hair is just too laser resistant, I just wanted to make sure I'm not missing some other important factor.

I realize nobody here is a dermatologist, but what factors could be in theory possibly interfering? Since two completely different practitioners in different facilities with different lasers failed, I can't quite believe the machines are fundamentally misconfigured. I also tried shaving right before, ten hours before (which strangely enough the practitioners seemed to prefer even though the internet suggests shorter before is more effective), and like 4 hours before to test out different stubble length. With both practitioners, we also went up to a strength that they said they were barely comfortable with due to risk of skin damage and that caused me to jerk and tear up from extreme pain. Despite all of that the hair doesn't initially fall out, which I find weird, since the usual observed failure seem to be that it falls out in the days after to return later - which I don't seem to be seeing. I guess my hair must either be unusually absurdly strong, or the practitioners and me are missing something obvious.

As for electrolysis, I don't know how to find a technician who wouldn't cause scarring and it seems like all trans women in this area didn't find one either. Therefore, for now I'm too afraid of that.