So, I'm a nonbinary person who's been 10 months on testosterone and experience a lot of social and physical dysphoria.

I went through a surgery not related to gender dysphoria and I haven't left the house for quite some time while I recover. That means I haven't been misgendered for a literal week.

I had my first consult with a surgeon for top surgery and I love the idea of no longer needing binders or bras for my chest. No longer feeling dysphoric about their presence, but I started having doubts.

Probably the only time I can enjoy this body part is in sexual context and I used to not prioritize that since I won't be having sex-related activities most of the time.

I have mixed feelings about top surgery now despite knowing it would greatly improve in many day-to-day things (choosing clothes to wear, not feeling bothered by their existence, able to breathe and not experience binder pain).

What would be your advice on this? Will my chest stop being a sexual part of myself after the surgery? Anything you would suggest?

Hi Darksou,

I would definitely discuss this with the surgeon. Tell them you are concerned about losing sensitivity or even numbness. There are different methods to achieve the top surgery. Perhaps one of them is less likely to damage those nerves causing numbness or loss of sensitivity.

I found this article that discusses three different methods. The first two may not be what you want, but maybe the third method can be done to preserve sensation.

Cleveland Clinic - Top Surgery

Quote from: Lori Dee on August 12, 2024, 11:24:22 AMHi Darksou,

I would definitely discuss this with the surgeon. Tell them you are concerned about losing sensitivity or even numbness. There are different methods to achieve the top surgery. Perhaps one of them is less likely to damage those nerves causing numbness or loss of sensitivity.

I found this article that discusses three different methods. The first two may not be what you want, but maybe the third method can be done to preserve sensation.

Cleveland Clinic - Top Surgery

Thanks for the suggestion, but I do not qualify for this method, unfortunately. I'd be willing to lose sensitivity, I'm actually more concerned about this part still being seen as sexual in specific contexts.

Hi Darksou,
Your post has had a lot of views at this time but not many replies, and just having views is not going to help any, so here goes.

My advice is to wait until you're sure.  You're very young, you may not think so, but you are.  Roughly 75% of your life is still in front of you.  Living with your dysphoria another 6 months to a year is nothing compared living with the wrong decision for the rest of your life.  Be very sure of what you are doing, there is no going back, but you can always move forward again.

Lori had good advice about discussing this with the surgeon.  I'd go a step farther and recommend finding a good therapist.  Find a therapist that's going to help you decide what is right for you.  Be leery of one that's pushing you in the direction that they think is right for you.  Or one that encourages you to ignore your doubts, you have them for a reason and need to understand them.  Don't be afraid to change therapist if you find they are telling you, what you need to do.
   
You describe yourself as primarily non-binary, and well I am not up on non-binary as most, it's my understanding that non-binary covers a lot of ranges.  A range goes from, those that want a body with no part of either gender, to those that embrace the gender parts that they were born with while still considering their inner gender as neither of the two.  Who knows, perhaps you'll discover there are other times that you enjoy "that" body part too.

Sorry if I have this wrong or over if I have over generalized what non-binary is concerning you personally.  I just honestly feel you can't go wrong by waiting until you know for sure, epically given your age.
 
I wish you all the best,

God bless you.

Paulie.


 

Quote from: Paulie on August 13, 2024, 12:25:48 AMHi Darksou,
Your post has had a lot of views at this time but not many replies, and just having views is not going to help any, so here goes.

My advice is to wait until you're sure.  You're very young, you may not think so, but you are.  Roughly 75% of your life is still in front of you.  Living with your dysphoria another 6 months to a year is nothing compared living with the wrong decision for the rest of your life.  Be very sure of what you are doing, there is no going back, but you can always move forward again.

Lori had good advice about discussing this with the surgeon.  I'd go a step farther and recommend finding a good therapist.  Find a therapist that's going to help you decide what is right for you.  Be leery of one that's pushing you in the direction that they think is right for you.  Or one that encourages you to ignore your doubts, you have them for a reason and need to understand them.  Don't be afraid to change therapist if you find they are telling you, what you need to do.
   
You describe yourself as primarily non-binary, and well I am not up on non-binary as most, it's my understanding that non-binary covers a lot of ranges.  A range goes from, those that want a body with no part of either gender, to those that embrace the gender parts that they were born with while still considering their inner gender as neither of the two.  Who knows, perhaps you'll discover there are other times that you enjoy "that" body part too.

Sorry if I have this wrong or over if I have over generalized what non-binary is concerning you personally.  I just honestly feel you can't go wrong by waiting until you know for sure, epically given your age.
 
I wish you all the best,

God bless you.

Paulie.


 

My transition plan is basicslly what you would expect from a trans man. I want both top and bottom surgeries, I'm on testosterone as well. That's just because this is how my dysphoria works.

The thing about wanting top surgery is because that would help me in 95% of the time. Being able to be shirtless, not feeling dysphoric while exercising, no longer having binder pains and being flat chested while sleeping. I'm mostly bothered with the possibility this part of me won't be considered sexually attractive anymore.

I'm honestly leaning towards getting it anyway because the benefits are too many, but wondering if I can still enjoy my post-op chest sexually, basically.

I will talk about it in therapy this week.

Rather than give you advice, sweetie, I'd like to ask you something if that's okay? Based on this:

Quote from: darksou on August 13, 2024, 05:25:29 AMI'm mostly bothered with the possibility this part of me won't be considered sexually attractive anymore.

How does the idea of your chest being sexually attractive make you feel? In relation to the dysphoria you feel about that part of yourself? Is this an area of your body that you're concerned someone will be attracted to more than anything else? Do you need that kind of relationship if a part of you that you wish weren't there is a source of sexual attraction?

Sorry, I know that was a lot of questions. What I would say, in more general terms, is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And being defined by one part of your body... you deserve better than that.

Quote from: Sephirah on August 13, 2024, 02:12:51 PMRather than give you advice, sweetie, I'd like to ask you something if that's okay? Based on this:

How does the idea of your chest being sexually attractive make you feel? In relation to the dysphoria you feel about that part of yourself? Is this an area of your body that you're concerned someone will be attracted to more than anything else? Do you need that kind of relationship if a part of you that you wish weren't there is a source of sexual attraction?

Sorry, I know that was a lot of questions. What I would say, in more general terms, is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And being defined by one part of your body... you deserve better than that.

I have a boyfriend that I'm pretty confident that would be attracted to me after top surgery, but I have to admit I happen to find this body part to be attractive, as dysphoric as it makes me feel. Possibly because I'm omnisexual and find many body types, genders and styles to be attractive.

I fear that I may lose this capacity of seeing myself as attractive, as strange as it might sound.

Quote from: darksou on August 13, 2024, 02:56:05 PMI have a boyfriend that I'm pretty confident that would be attracted to me after top surgery, but I have to admit I happen to find this body part to be attractive, as dysphoric as it makes me feel. Possibly because I'm omnisexual and find many body types, genders and styles to be attractive.

I fear that I may lose this capacity of seeing myself as attractive, as strange as it might sound.

No it does not sound strange. I get where you're coming from. Do you feel your chest is attractive to your boyfriend and were you to do what you feel you want to do, that he may not? I get you totally in the whole omni thing. I guess what I'm asking is that are you afraid you will lose his interest if you don't have breasts for him to find attractive in a sexual way? If so... have you spoken to him about it? About how your chest is making you feel and why you want to do this?

Sorry, I know this is a barrage of questions but hey, at least they're free.

Attractive is something attributed to someone else, sweetie. Not to you. That's all I would say. I find people attractive that others wouldn't even look twice at... because we look for different things,

Quote from: darksou on August 13, 2024, 02:56:05 PMI fear that I may lose this capacity of seeing myself as attractive, as strange as it might sound.

Sorry for posting twice, but... Listen to me, Darksou... you don't need to have certain bits in certain places to be attractive, okay? Who you are, if you are at peace and happy with you you are... is far more attractive to anyone than someone in pain, hiding away, ashamed of bits of themselves they wish they weren't there. Attraction is not just anatomical. I would argue it's mostly not anatomical. It's about someone who is content within themselves enough to look outward into the world and give back everything they get, okay?

Something to think about, sweetie. If your chest is causing you discomfort and pain to the point that 95% of your life would be better without those appendages... live your life as you... form and evolve relationships as you. Then you do this from a place of comfort and honesty. Like ripples in a pond... you have to drop the first stone.

You are more than your breasts, sweetie. You deserve to be loved for more than that.

I know I said I wouldn't give my opinion but... like some transwomen have an utter obsession with them, you are kind of illuminating the opposite. You can be who you are because it's just who you are. Let people see you for you. And if they don't want to, you don't need them in your life. *hugs*

Quote from: Sephirah on August 13, 2024, 03:00:33 PMNo it does not sound strange. I get where you're coming from. Do you feel your chest is attractive to your boyfriend and were you to do what you feel you want to do, that he may not? I get you totally in the whole omni thing. I guess what I'm asking is that are you afraid you will lose his interest if you don't have breasts for him to find attractive in a sexual way? If so... have you spoken to him about it? About how your chest is making you feel and why you want to do this?

Sorry, I know this is a barrage of questions but hey, at least they're free.

Attractive is something attributed to someone else, sweetie. Not to you. That's all I would say. I find people attractive that others wouldn't even look twice at... because we look for different things,

I'm not really insecure about him not finding me attrative anymore. I just don't know if getting the dysphoria away would make me see myself as being less attractive. Maybe because boobs are often thought to be sexual while cis men are allowed to be shirtless without an issue in many contexts...

Quote from: Sephirah on August 13, 2024, 03:15:02 PMSorry for posting twice, but... Listen to me, Darksou... you don't need to have certain bits in certain places to be attractive, okay? Who you are, if you are at peace and happy with you you are... is far more attractive to anyone than someone in pain, hiding away, ashamed of bits of themselves they wish they weren't there. Attraction is not just anatomical. I would argue it's mostly not anatomical. It's about someone who is content within themselves enough to look outward into the world and give back everything they get, okay?

Something to think about, sweetie. If your chest is causing you discomfort and pain to the point that 95% of your life would be better without those appendages... live your life as you... form and evolve relationships as you. Then you do this from a place of comfort and honesty. Like ripples in a pond... you have to drop the first stone.

You are more than your breasts, sweetie. You deserve to be loved for more than that.

I know I said I wouldn't give my opinion but... like some transwomen have an utter obsession with them, you are kind of illuminating the opposite. You can be who you are because it's just who you are. Let people see you for you. And if they don't want to, you don't need them in your life. *hugs*

Yeah. That makes sense. Maybe I shouldn't focus so much on how my body looks to determine how attractive it is. People love other people, not bodies.

Well, maybe I am stressing over something I don't have to. I will bring it up in therapy this week anyway just in case.

Quote from: darksou on August 13, 2024, 04:38:22 PMI'm not really insecure about him not finding me attrative anymore. I just don't know if getting the dysphoria away would make me see myself as being less attractive. Maybe because boobs are often thought to be sexual while cis men are allowed to be shirtless without an issue in many contexts...

Honey, they are literal milk sacs designed for people who want to give birth to people who need that milk to grow into people. The only reason they're sexual for people is an evolutionary aspect for the propagation of the species.

Anyone can get breasts. I read a story one time of amazonian tribe in the deepest rainforest, who intercepted a UNICEF drop meant from some war or whatever... and the chief of this village literally took all these contraceptive pills himself and sported a pair of female breasts that would make a supermodel blush. Because they were full of estrogen, lol.

Yeah, people have a fascination with breasts. Both cis, and trans. But what I would say to you is that if someone doesn't find you attractive based on more than how much your chest sticks out of your clothing, you really need to think whether you want this person in your life.

Quote from: darksou on August 13, 2024, 04:38:22 PMI'm not really insecure about him not finding me attrative anymore. I just don't know if getting the dysphoria away would make me see myself as being less attractive. Maybe because boobs are often thought to be sexual while cis men are allowed to be shirtless without an issue in many contexts...

You aren't attractive because of how you look, Darksou... You are attractive because of who you are. All looks fade. If you're beautiful in the way you are, the way you treat people... the way you love and live... you will always be attractive and beautiful. Whether you were born male, female, intersex, whatever, this is one immutable truth. Love is based on who we are. Not how we are. And doing whatever you need to to, to be who you are, is never a bad thing, okay?

Sorry for way too much opinion lol. But I am someone who would never be attracted to someone because of how large their breasts are. That is like not even last on a long list for what I find magical and beautiful about a person. Number one is wanting to be, and living as who they are.

Quote from: darksou on August 13, 2024, 04:40:14 PMYeah. That makes sense. Maybe I shouldn't focus so much on how my body looks to determine how attractive it is. People love other people, not bodies.

Well, maybe I am stressing over something I don't have to. I will bring it up in therapy this week anyway just in case.

We are our own worst critics. We may think we are not attractive and someone will come along who thinks we are perfect. Talking about it in therapy is a wise decision, especially if it is distressing you. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. You might just be overthinking it. Go easy on yourself.

Quote from: Lori Dee on August 13, 2024, 06:11:58 PMWe are our own worst critics. We may think we are not attractive and someone will come along who thinks we are perfect. Talking about it in therapy is a wise decision, especially if it is distressing you. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. You might just be overthinking it. Go easy on yourself.

Listen to Lori. This girl is unnaturally wise. I think she has some kind of witchcraft in her veins.

Quote from: Sephirah on August 13, 2024, 06:19:05 PMListen to Lori. This girl is unnaturally wise. I think she has some kind of witchcraft in her veins.

 

In the local LGTBQA+ gamer group that we are part of, a couple have had top surgery in recent time. In many ways, they are more attractive as their authentic selves.


True people love people and not bodies. This is particularly true for my spouse and I who both put on some weight since getting married. You mentioned you were not sure how your boyfriend would see you without them, then I would suggest to ask to see what he has to say. At the end of the day, love and attractiveness are not skin deep, they come down to who you are as a person. Secondly, how you view things may adjust as you are on testosterone longer which is important to note too. Hugs
Mariah
 

Quote from: darksou on August 13, 2024, 04:40:14 PMYeah. That makes sense. Maybe I shouldn't focus so much on how my body looks to determine how attractive it is. People love other people, not bodies.

Well, maybe I am stressing over something I don't have to. I will bring it up in therapy this week anyway just in case.

Mariah is right. What someone may want you for a one night fling, compared to what you can have for the rest of your life... that is what you really need to look at, honey. You are worth more than two breasts. And if people think you aren't... that's their repressed problem. Not yours okay?

*hugs*

It's a very personal decision and I would reccommend to be fully informed before taking the step; surgeon specialized in gender affirming surgeries with experience. I would ask him about surgery, type of incision in your case, scars, expected recovery time and results. I would do at least 2 consultations and go with who has more experience and you like the results.

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