I was having  conversation with my wife, saying that at some point I feel I would just be a woman and move on from being trans. As many members do, I feel I would probably just continue life as a woman and move on from the groups, boards and chats to just living my life as a woman. Her response was you will always be a trans woman no matter what. This really got me thinking. Comments, thoughts ?

I agree with her. Not everybody will, and that's a beautiful thing. 

I think that for a transsexual, who is generally described as someone who has or will undergo social and medical transition, there may be more of an inclination to reach the  "finish" or "endpoint".

Personally, I  never know if I'm going to wake up to a boy day or a girl day, so I'm perennially trans.

My two cents worth. 

Hugs, Devlyn

I have wondered about this myself.

I continue to feel that I am female. Even after all surgeries and cosmetic procedures are done, I will still be. But that is not an endpoint for me. I will continue to evolve, working on voice, mannerisms, clothing style, etc. And since I will always be evolving, I am part of the Forever Trans Club.

I live my life as a woman.  For most of what I do, being trans is not relevant.

But I cannot deny my history.  So, when it becomes relevant, I will admit that I am a trans woman, and always will be.  I do not believe that it is ever possible for me to not be trans, because that would mean that my past never happened.

I participate in trans social media because it helps me, and it allows me to help others.

I'll never menstruate, which is the bar that the far left and far right hold against us, while conveniently not holding other women to the same bar, i.e. you no longer menstruate, therefore you're no longer fully female.

I have learned that if someone knows about my past, my past assumes a primacy that obviates my present and even my last 40 years, therefore I adopt half of Bill Clinton's approach: I don't tell.

Women who have undergone a hysterectomy do not menstruate either. So there's that.

I do not care so much about those labels such as trans or women. I am basically a nominalist, and I believe everybody is unique. But I admit that I do not menstruate or deliver a baby, which means I am not biologically female. Nevertheless, I need to satisfy my desire within the social norm, pursuing what I can do to present and express my femininity, whether physical or psychological. I have never said I am trans, and people around me never call me trans, but I am biologically male, as I have never been on HRT or undergone GRS. Sometimes I identify myself as a woman, and some people accept it.

Cheers,

barbie~~

Quote from: Devlyn on September 07, 2024, 08:48:37 AMI agree with her. Not everybody will, and that's a beautiful thing. 

I think that for a transsexual, who is generally described as someone who has or will undergo social and medical transition, there may be more of an inclination to reach the  "finish" or "endpoint".

Personally, I  never know if I'm going to wake up to a boy day or a girl day, so I'm perennially trans.

My two cents worth. 

Hugs, Devlyn

This makes sense.  Whether you are to have boy day or a girl day, you are a lovely person. 
You look good too.

Chrissy

Quote from: Oldandcreaky on September 07, 2024, 12:52:03 PMI'll never menstruate, which is the bar that the far left and far right hold against us, while conveniently not holding other women to the same bar, i.e. you no longer menstruate, therefore you're no longer fully female.

I have learned that if someone knows about my past, my past assumes a primacy that obviates my present and even my last 40 years, therefore I adopt half of Bill Clinton's approach: I don't tell.

That is a crazy (menstruate) standard.  I do not agree with it.  Loco.


Chrissy

Quote from: Gina P on September 07, 2024, 08:42:16 AMI was having  conversation with my wife, saying that at some point I feel I would just be a woman and move on from being trans. As many members do, I feel I would probably just continue life as a woman and move on from the groups, boards and chats to just living my life as a woman. Her response was you will always be a trans woman no matter what. This really got me thinking. Comments, thoughts ?

To actually answer your question Gina - I think your wife's opinion is wrong. I believe that if you are binary in your gender (as in Male or Female) and you need to transition, then your goal would be one day to reach your preffered gender and be recognised as that, male or female and not have to be labelled a third gender for the rest of your life..

Medically I will always be transgender -- a person who is 'in between', maybe or a mixture of both.

Mentally, I will always have memories of the person who came before. Some memories are ones I will cherish, while others are memories of a darker time in my life. Although I wish I could forget those dark times, they will always be a part of me. They helped make me who I am today.

Personally, to quote Helen Reddy, 'I am woman'. I am the person I always knew I should have been. I am comfortable in my own skin. I am simply 'me'.

Love always -- Jess

Quote from: Oldandcreaky on September 07, 2024, 12:52:03 PMI have learned that if someone knows about my past, my past assumes a primacy that obviates my present

While not universal that is how it is with many who are accepting and supportive to some degree.

Way back when  while I was doing electrolysis locally, the operator was well liked in the local community and was friendly and accepting and even socialized with some in the community ...

But when I asked her if she knew a post op was dating a close relative of hers and they did not out themselves to that relative would she tell the relative...

Her answer was yes... and that confirmed to me that if was possible for me, stealth was were I wanted to be.

In many people's eyes knowing you are T* colors much of how they experience you even when they are accepting,  friendly and supportive.

Unfortunate, but that is how it is.

- Karen

Of course I have a slightly different perspective on this. I firmly believe we are born with incongruence with our birth sex, and it causes us distress by way of dysphoria. Many of us identify this, and realise the best way to reduce this dysphoria is to reduce our incongruence by adapting our lives and bodies to more align with our identity.

It is a human condition within the normal range of human conditions, like cleft palate, or hole in the heart, and people who go through those procedures don't hold onto a classification, they just get on with their lives. It should be the same for us, but we suffer much more social stigma, and psychological distress. We have varying outcomes from transition and live in significantly different cultures re acceptance.

So, once we accept the classification of being trans, it can rule our lives to varying extents. Those who manage to transition enough to get rid of dysphoria still have to find our place in society. We all have different experiences with this. Personally, I have found that most people at least suspect I am trans, but I live in an accepting society, so it is rarely an issue. I just live as most others, worrying about everyday issues.

I know people who have transitioned quite successfully, but in oppressive societies, so being trans is a daily issue for them. Others I know, for various reasons, weren't able to achieve 'passing', and some struggled to even find the clothing they felt was necessary, so, while they have mostly addressed their dysphoria, they haven't achieved social acceptance and self confidence, so they can't move past being trans. Many people simply cannot medically or socially transition.

Some of us are fortunate enough to simply get on with life in our new persona, and being trans is never an issue, while others just can't get past it for personal or social reasons. We are who we are, transition addresses dysphoria to a great extent, but we are mostly the same person we were. I see it as a medical condition I have mostly solved, and now my life is pretty much back to normal (well, sex transition has been replaced by age transition!). I am open about being trans to those who enquire, but mostly so they have some understanding.

In my mind (and I stress, this is only how I see myself, not others) I was never a man, and I will never be a woman. I have seen myself as unique all my life, so I am simply me.

Hugs,

Allie

Hi Everyone

As Kathy says;  "I live my life as a women or female." Always have and always will.  The only thing that has to be noted in all of this.  I was born with a medical condition and when I began to find out about it sometime in the mid 80's I found out that it was called 'transsexual'.

Yes, I know hindsight and all that and I started to find out more when I joined Susan's for the first time in 2010, 20 years after surgery.  However, none of all that ever worried me.  I just changed my life around and lived my life as me.

Only in certain circumstances do I say that I'm a transsexual and then only once and that is only for one or two doctors that have to know.  I will only tell them this because it's in relationship to my health and nothing else.

So all of these other terms, labels, descriptions, I do not scribe too.  I have lived with out them for over 35 years and yes I use them around here, but sparingly.

A couple of reasons why I do not subscribe to those words are.  First I don't want to be a label and put in a box, I'm not one of the mob so to speak, well actually I'm not!  Second my life is private, being that I do not tell anyone about me, hence those terms do not get used around me and only in discussions with friends when we are talking about the subject.  Finally my thinking and my disdain is reinforced from not using those labels comes from Morgan Freeman.

During a 2005 interview with Mike Wallace for television's "60 Minutes" news magazine program, Academy Award-winning actor Morgan Freeman found the concept of Black History Month to be "ridiculous" and maintained the way to get rid of racism was to "stop talking about it".

QuoteWALLACE: Black history month You find Ridiculous
FREEMAN: Ridiculous.
WALLACE: Why?
FREEMAN: You're going to relegate my history to a month?
WALLACE: Come on.
FREEMAN: What do you do with yours? Which month is White History Month? Come on, tell me.
WALLACE: I'm Jewish.
FREEMAN: OK. Which month is Jewish History Month?
WALLACE: There isn't one.
FREEMAN: Why not? Do you want one?
WALLACE: No, no.
FREEMAN: I don't either. I don't want a Black History Month. Black history is American history.
WALLACE: How are we going to get rid of racism until ...?
FREEMAN: Stop talking about it. I'm going to stop calling you a white man. And I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man. I know you as Mike Wallace. You know me as Morgan Freeman. You're not going to say, "I know this white guy named Mike Wallace." Hear what I'm saying?[1]

So yeah, there's that.  In regards to the other aspects, there are women who do not menstruate or have babies and have XY genes.  I was born with the medical condition and I accept that unconditionally and if I could change those aspects of my life that would allow me to menstruate and have babies without hesitation, I would, but I cannot.

Therefore, I'm Sarah a female, me and nothing else.

Best Wishes Always
Sarah B
Global Moderator
[1] Stop talking about it

My lovely daughter at the age of 20 is curious about my fashion items, and when they are delivered home, she sometimes opens them before me. Although my family members are relatively tall here, she is short. The doctor and we did not expect it, as my wife and I are tall. I wish I could give some of my height to her. Nevertheless, she is my lovely daughter, and she should overcome it.

Just ago, my wife commented that my arms are thinner than my daughter's, which upset her a little bit. In some aspects, I am more feminine than her. I wear bikini in the beach, but she does not (here most women wearing bikinis are expected to be extremely slim). She is a little bit masculine in her behavior, and even her voice is low. But I love all of her charateristics.

I think my transsexualism is comparable to the short height of my daughter, which was inherited, can not be changed, and should be overcome anyway. The society has changed, and I think <i>>-bleeped-<</i> becomes a less stigma or burden to overcome. In my case, people around me accepted me far better than I initially expected 20 years ago. To see it, you may visit my YouTube page at: www.youtube.com/@barbiekorea21

barbie~~

I am a transwoman, that's undeniable — but I do see transition as a process, not a label, a badge, or calling card. It's a means to an end.

I already live my life as a woman, and I imagine as time passes the percentage of people who treat me that way will continue to grow. And while, of course, friends and family will always know of my past, since most already seamlessly treat me as a woman, and all strangers do... I see no reason to brand myself otherwise.

Quote from: Gina P on September 07, 2024, 08:42:16 AMI was having  conversation with my wife, saying that at some point I feel I would just be a woman and move on from being trans. As many members do, I feel I would probably just continue life as a woman and move on from the groups, boards and chats to just living my life as a woman. Her response was you will always be a trans woman no matter what. This really got me thinking. Comments, thoughts ?

Excellent responses from everyone, but agreeing on a high level from what you shared from the conversation with your wife I agree with Devlyn. It would depend on the degree of where I'm at in my gender spectrum.

Can you share your wife's reasoning for more context if you don't mind?

Quote from: imallie on September 08, 2024, 01:11:23 AMas time passes the percentage of people who treat me that way will continue to grow

Yes, and being treated as a woman will change you. It's the nurturing in nature vs. nurture. Simone de Beauvoir addressed this here:

"Woman is not born fully formed; she is gradually shaped by her upbringing. Biology does not determine what makes a woman a woman—a woman learns her role ..."

And here: "One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman."

I love being treated as a woman.  I never take it for granted. 

Chrissy

Quote from: Oldandcreaky on September 08, 2024, 06:32:44 AMYes, and being treated as a woman will change you. It's the nurturing in nature vs. nurture. Simone de Beauvoir addressed this here:

"Woman is not born fully formed; she is gradually shaped by her upbringing. Biology does not determine what makes a woman a woman—a woman learns her role ..."

And here: "One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman."

I hear that, and it makes perfect sense. But I also think it may not be something I will not be able to experience in full as much as those who transition at a younger age would.

My world as I approach 60, gets smaller, not larger. With large families on both sides, and a big group of friends, it seems like more and more the balance of time will be spent among those who have always known me. And time in the public will be more episodic.

So while I do feel very much treated as a woman by most in the family, there's still that — undiscussed wall, you know? I'm welcomed into the club with open arms... but maybe I should stay out of the VIP area. LOL.

I guess that might be just me... no, I know that's just me. But it'll be curious to see if that fades over time.