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Why religion is incompatible with my beliefs.

Started by Caiwen, October 26, 2024, 06:59:09 AM

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Caiwen

I want to start by saying that I respect everyone's right to practice their religion or spirituality as you see fit. It's one of the wonderful things that makes the world so diverse!

With that being said, my belief is that religion, particularly organized religion is not only deeply harmful in and of itself, but also incompatible with the world of love, diversity, and kindness we are trying to build.

Everything from here are my own observations and experiences, and may not be your reality. I will be speaking not of any specific person, but of the systems inherent that I believe supports my belief. Also, for ease of use, I will be speaking of the religion I am most familiar with, Christianity, although many religions follow this same structure.

Religion is spiritual narcissism. It sets an unquestionable authority and promises an eternity of torment and torture if you disobey. Just keep this particular pattern in mind as you continue. See, the church is part of a hierarchical, domination type society. As humans, we can have a domination society or a cooperative society. Most countries are a blend of both. It's a spectrum. Some of the most cooperative societies are in Scandinavia, Europe, or New Zealand, the most dominant are Russia, Saudi Arabia, and North Korea, and the most successful hybrids would be places like Germany or Japan.

Domination societies rely on structures put in place to keep the masses under control in order to benefit the elite. Those structures, just to name a few, include the church, the workplace, and even marriage. These structures often rely on abuse to keep people in check.

I could go on for hours about societal structure, but for the sake of keeping this short, I'll move on.

Now, one following, say, Christianity, is no longer in control of some of life's biggest choices. For instance: I struggled for a long time accepting lgbtq folk, not because I didn't want to, but because I was indoctrinated that accepting them would surely land me in the lake of fire. I knew gay people. I was never anything but accepted and treated well by them. I always questioned it, but was always beaten down, either verbally, emotionally, physically, or I was guilted.

God, your boss, and your husband (in a "traditional family") all play the same role. To get you to believe like they do. If you don't, you cause problems for the system, and thus the elite. When you cause problems, you threaten the structure and their money. When you threaten their wealth hoard, they legislate and demonize those who are different and don't follow their exact guidance. That's why the oppression of the LGBTQ+ community. Because we are different. We don't fit into their traditional family model, because often, relationships are two (or more) women, and women typically vote democrat/progressive, so we, as women are a threat. We, specifically trans women, are even more at risk because these systems often cause repression of feelings, often at the expense of violence. Men locked in these systems will often even be attracted to a trans woman, then when they find out, the insecurities built up by this system of narcissism, often turn violent. They rely on this abuse to keep us in line.

When you live in all these systems, unaware, you develop a functional narcissism, because you then allow someone or something else to control how you see, view, and interact with the world. When a Christian hates the lgbtq, often they learn and solidify this early, preferably while your brain is still malleable, aka a child. It's easier to make the weak and uneducated follow than the strong and aware. This is why we see injecting the 10 commandments and pledge of allegiance and book banning in school. They don't want kids to know that being different is okay. By the time you've grown out of being a child, you're likely already voting for them, and it's much harder to rewire an adult brain. Even if you're not voting for them, you are still likely trapped in narcissistic cycles. Nearly everyone, specifically in the US, does. It takes great awareness, humility, and willingness to really take a deep look in the mirror to even start this process, which narcissists often never reach.

This is the narcissism. You now, if they've done their job correctly, start filtering EVERYTHING through a second approval, God. This causes doubt, especially tied with the teaching that you're not perfect, you make mistakes because you're human, and God IS perfect, so we're back to the threats if you don't follow his law. Self doubt makes you more reliant on that outside perspective to guide you, especially when faced with difference and diversity because you don't trust your feelings and have to default to someone who "did the work for you." So, by allowing all your answers to be unquestionable because God said so, all of the sudden, your actions become narcissistic, and through repetition of those actions, you, yourself become a narcissist, because now YOU can't be questioned when talking to someone who doesn't believe like you. You're now a narcissist following narcissists in their dangerous ascent toward eradicating what makes humans so special. Our diversity.

I realize that some people use religion for strength, or community, or any other reason, and some people use it in positive ways, but historically, and in it's current trajectory, the cons far, far outweigh the positives...and this is very important...AS THEY ARE NOW.

Allowing these things to continue will ensure that people like me and you, beautiful, wonderful trans women, along with our brothers, sisters, and all those in between in the lgbtq+ community, immigrants fleeing war-torn or cartel-controlled countries just trying to live life, and underpriviliged communities will never be safe. As long as religion as it exists today is still allowed to roam free under the guise of being this big, magical, identity that's worthy of respect, then we will not grow. To quote Neil DeGrasse Tyson (no, i don't believe, or even agree with everything he says/does) "I don't have to respect your beliefs if they are objectively false." Do I believe God is objectively false? Yes. Do I believe you do not deserve respect? No. You as a human deserve all the respect and love. Do I believe your belief in a system so hurtful should be respected? Well, yes, because it's yours, but no when you try to push that on me or my community or anyone else.

So, we're faced with a real life case usage of the paradox of intolerance. When the tolerant tolerate the intolerant, intolerance will reign and erase tolerance. Basically, love may be more powerful in the long run, but hate is more addictive and instantly rewarding because each instance of you thinking of calling someone a name or attacking them, further solidifies your belief that you're right, making it harder to break the cycle.

For me, the choice was simple. I deconstructed faster than a Jenga tower vs 10 hyper toddlers. There is absolutely no way that I am going to subject myself to even the possibility of being manipulated. Someone else making those big, important choices for me just didn't sound okay. I learned to trust myself through lots of very small things that compounded, and now my decisions are my own. Free from influence of what God, or anyone thinks. When I do see influence snake its way in, I do the work to undo it and reform my own thoughts on whatever influence it was.

When I reinvented myself and found out about my transness, I decided to dedicate my life to being empathetic, compassionate, loving, and to help everyone I can. These are my core values, my morals. Derived from my heart, from myself. In a world where I can be anything, I chose Kindness. These are wholly incompatible with the public face of many religions. These religions, especially Christianity and catholicism preach this, though, you may be saying. And I agree. They can be those things. But they're not to me. They are those things to their own, only. And it's furthered by this forced tribalism, because then you start seeing all those around you as kind, loving, and compassionate inside your circle, so when someone questions you, of course you deny it. I've gone really deep to get as much perspective as I can on this, I even grew up in a family like this, and I'm always evolving, but this is how I see this phenomena. "No, my dad is a good man. Sure, he could be tough growing up, and he spanked us when we were wrong, but we were just kids being bad. He's always treated me and my family well, and he's the type to give someone the shirt off his back. Just...not you because you're trans. That's wrong. Dad said so because God said so."

It's all window dressing hate. It's wrapping this deeply flawed, manipulated, highly dangerous belief and justifying it through other perceived good works. Which are typically not that good when you peel back the layers.

I had to go through the process of finding out where each person fit in my life through rigorous introspection, using many critical thinking and emotional wellbeing skills I've learned recently, and out of many religious people, I had good memories of them, but I only had HAPPY memories of one, and that's my grandma. I've never heard her criticize another person for their looks or Sexuality. Good memories are fleeting things like buying me a new toy or having a good Thanksgiving meal, but happy memories don't come from someone trying to control and dominate you into being what they want you to be, they come from someone not looking at those things as a problem and just enjoying life with you. We're our happiest when we're free to be ourselves.

It's for this reason that I will continue to respect and love all those who are trapped or misguided into thinking that this dominating hateful force is providing them with comfort, love, or community, but they will not be a part of my life actively. Part of my journey is surrounding myself with love and positivity, and with religion around, there is always pretense. I can never know what they are really thinking.

So, that's why I'm not religious. I am very spiritual, though. I'm very deeply connected to myself and the human spirit. I find the most love and connection and elation from interacting with real, good people.
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Lori Dee

@Caiwen

While I agree with much of what you are saying there are some things you need to understand.

I have been a Seeker all of my life. I have studied many religions, including the various denominations of Christianity. When I was quite young, I had some very specific questions that I needed answers to and the various religions did not provide those answers. So I left "organized" religion and sought my own answers. When I found those answers, my spirituality bloomed. I now consider myself a "mystic" as I have been studying the "mysteries" for many decades.

What you say about religion's purpose of control is true. What you need to understand is that it serves a purpose in the spiritual evolution of humankind. Many of these religions began in ancient times when societies were very misogynistic. People were primitive and needed to be taught how to be civilized. Religion taught us things about diet, hygiene, and how to participate productively in society.

Some people need structure and control in their lives. This is most prominent in addicts. Addicts have issues with their addictions controlling them. Living in a structured environment helps them control their behavior and thus, their addictions. So religions provide that structure (control) and many people benefit from it. Most people are not seekers and are happy to live their lives in the best way that they know how.

Others, like you and I, do not want or need control. I wanted answers and I did not find them within any church. But as my own spiritual path led me to find these answers, I had my own self-imposed structure and control that led me to the spiritual peace that I sought.

I realize that you were just addressing your own journey and not bashing anyone else's beliefs. But I get the sense that your observations only allowed you to see religion as a whole from one perspective. I am not saying that is wrong. I am saying that if you are seeking the answers, you need to widen your view and see how religions have developed and helped humankind develop over its long history.
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Sephirah

In my view, Religion and Faith are two different things. I think it's very possible to have one without the other. In the UK we've had a long standing troubled relationship with the power of the Church. "Thou shalt do this, or that, or the other." It was control over people, by other people. If you want to scare people, just tell them they're going to burn in hell.

Personally... I am agnostic, leaning towards atheist. But I am willing to be proved wrong. I guess there's only one way we will ever know for sure. When it's too late to tell anyone you were right or wrong, lol. But... I don't like how it's used as a form of control and brainwashing. I think everyone has the right to have a relationship with their creator, if that's what they believe. Without being told that if you wear the wrong trousers on a certain wednesday of the month, you're going to be cast into a pit of damnation. That's just silly. That's just humans being humans.
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Caiwen

Quote from: Lori Dee on October 26, 2024, 08:51:25 AM@Caiwen

While I agree with much of what you are saying there are some things you need to understand.

I have been a Seeker all of my life. I have studied many religions, including the various denominations of Christianity. When I was quite young, I had some very specific questions that I needed answers to and the various religions did not provide those answers. So I left "organized" religion and sought my own answers. When I found those answers, my spirituality bloomed. I now consider myself a "mystic" as I have been studying the "mysteries" for many decades.

What you say about religion's purpose of control is true. What you need to understand is that it serves a purpose in the spiritual evolution of humankind. Many of these religions began in ancient times when societies were very misogynistic. People were primitive and needed to be taught how to be civilized. Religion taught us things about diet, hygiene, and how to participate productively in society.

Some people need structure and control in their lives. This is most prominent in addicts. Addicts have issues with their addictions controlling them. Living in a structured environment helps them control their behavior and thus, their addictions. So religions provide that structure (control) and many people benefit from it. Most people are not seekers and are happy to live their lives in the best way that they know how.

Others, like you and I, do not want or need control. I wanted answers and I did not find them within any church. But as my own spiritual path led me to find these answers, I had my own self-imposed structure and control that led me to the spiritual peace that I sought.

I realize that you were just addressing your own journey and not bashing anyone else's beliefs. But I get the sense that your observations only allowed you to see religion as a whole from one perspective. I am not saying that is wrong. I am saying that if you are seeking the answers, you need to widen your view and see how religions have developed and helped humankind develop over its long history.



Thanks for the response, Lori! Thank you so much for your perspective! I like the feel of Seeker. Asking questions. I know the draw of needing to know that answer.

That being said, I wholly apologize if my tone or words conveyed that I don't grasp all the good that what you, and I consider spirituality has, does, and can do for humanity. I consider my connection to people and humanity my spirituality, and it guides me just as any number of things lead others.

I believed I went far enough with my wording to to distinguish my view of spirituality vs religion, and for that, I'm sorry. Let me explain. I'll try to be more succinct this time.

I feel like we are on the same page on this, but I explain things weird sometimes lol. To me, "religion" is the church, the systems of oppression and control, the hierarchies, the widespread hate and narcissism, and the bad faith actors and grifters peddling to narratives that harm humanity. "Spirituality" is that core message of the Bible and Jesus and other deities of love, compassion, good works, helping thy neighbor, forgiveness, and accepting. Those beliefs that I also share that have been the core to forging so many enterprises of hope and opportunity, and most importantly self-growth, unhindered.

I am sorry if there was anything I said that could have conveyed differently.

That being said, you did propose another perspective that I haven't considered before now, and it's honestly really challenging. Thank you for that. The fact that the structure that I see as so damaging has actually provided comfort and a way forward is incredibly tough to process. I won't lie. But I have seen people change their lives in 12 steps, and even through church communities. I think the reason this is so hard for me to grasp is that I, too have been, and am an addict. Reflecting back on it, the times I did the best to control my overeating were times where strict control was placed on me, but the only time it stuck, and has been long lasting to today, is placing that strict control on myself.

I don't think I'm going to have an answer on this for myself for a while, but you have given me something that's going to help me evolve and for that, I am greatful. I think, for now, as I learn more and refine my views, I do feel like that structure and community can be found in healthier places that have more sustainable views. Again, depending on the particular "sect" you find and their beliefs.




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