I'm 27 and have been on hrt for 2.5 years

At best I just confuse strangers and either don't get pronouns or the occasional sir

It doesn't matter how I dress I'm always gawked or glared at like a lot of people are scared of me or on edge

I've been at my same job for 18 months so maybe most of my male coworkers are just clueless or desensitized to me but no one believes I'm trans

My friend who I slowly came out to said I'm a pretty type of andro and look fem but still look like a dude mostly

He said it's about 50/50 and thinks ffs and a ba would probably push me into being seen as female when I brought surgeries up ( pretty much said I look like a femboy once too)

He did say people are probably mad because they're weirdly attracted to me even in boymode and can't figure out why

I've slowly over the last few months been presenting more and more andro but obviously fem with clothing, changed my posture and I'm starting to change my mannerisms

I cut my hair into cute bangs and even got lip filler to thicken my lips but my manager at work still thought I was pulling his leg when he asked if I had ever served and I slid a trans joke in there

"Don't let the fact that I look like a t***** fool you , I was an infantryman for almost 4 years"

My manager stops and looks at me for a sec before laughing and saying " ->-bleeped-<- off" because he most likely thought I was joking before asking my unit and duty station

I mean is it not obvious at this point ? I thought it was by the chatter, some of the behavior changes from some coworkers , etc

" I was gonna help you with that pallet until you started to go all macho woman Snow White" from a coworker who always talks ->-bleeped-<- to me but doesn't realize he's a accidental ally

"Why are you so zesty ?" From the same guy

" why does your face look like that ?" Same guy after about 6 months of working there

" deadname sounds like a girl when he calls someone's name doesn't he ? " coworkers chatting  after I asked my friend for help 

The two guys of a partial ethnicity just completely avoiding me and any eye contact all of a sudden

One of the women complimenting my figure  saying it looks like I've lost weight ( I am )

Same woman complimenting my bangs immediately seeing them

Only other woman on shift starts opening up to me a little

One of my coworkers throwing a heavy shelf up for me " you like watching don't you" jokingly

Same coworker " I think theft proof is just an excuse and you like pink" referring to my yeti thermus and phone case

" I thought you where a new female hire at first" when I came in without hiding my bangs under a hat and had a high ponytail ( obviously joking  , I don't pass)

So people just see me as a weird creepy flamboyant gay or a confusing gnc person ?

That means I still look like a whole ass dude and don't pass at all right ? Has my transition failed ? I'm in CA for reference

How can people subconsciously see me as fem but think I'm joking when I say I'm trans ? I don't get it I must be very non passing

Hard to say for sure as people have different interpretations of what they see and then they may react differently.  If there is some ambiguity that can lead to confusion.

Just be yourself.  You want everyone to accept you in the gender you are, I know.  We all do.

I cannot relate to multi-gender at the same time but I can understand gender fluid and androgynous people to some extent.  In any case I would not pass a bad judgment I do not think.

I think that many MTFs have been thought of by some people as being gay. 

Chrissy

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 21, 2024, 01:28:24 PMHard to say for sure as people have different interpretations of what they see and then they may react differently.  If there is some ambiguity that can lead to confusion.

Just be yourself.  You want everyone to accept you in the gender you are, I know.  We all do.

I cannot relate to multi-gender at the same time but I can understand gender fluid and androgynous people to some extent.  In any case I would not pass a bad judgment I do not think.

I think that many MTFs have been thought of by some people as being gay. 

Chrissy

I'm not multi gender

I'm a binary TS so obviously I'm failing if I don't even read as trans to people and just look confusing

Quote from: Selene858 on December 21, 2024, 01:38:26 PMI'm not multi gender

I'm a binary TS so obviously I'm failing if I don't even read as trans to people and just look confusing

First off, you are worrying about the wrong stuff.

If you are being yourself and are otherwise happy, why do you care what other people think? We often get ourselves so twisted up worrying about what others think and we can't enjoy just being ourselves. If you want to wear makeup, do it. If you want to dress feminine or masculine, do it. If people have a problem with it, it is THEIR problem.

The comments are crude, but that is typical of "guys being guys". When I receive a comment like that, I look them straight in the eye and ask, "Are you hitting on me?"

Or if they ask if you like pink, say, "Yeah, so what?" or "Don't you?".

When they ask if you like catching, say, "I bet you would be good at it" and maybe wink at him. If it is all in good fun, and horseplay among coworkers, have some fun with them. They might just be testing to see if it is okay to joke around with you, or if you are going to be uptight about it.

It could be a way of flirting. Guys don't always get it. They will do things that seem normal for a guy to do, but he is doing it to flirt and girls wonder what they are thinking. Think of the schoolboy who chases the girl with a frog or a snake. He isn't being mean, he just likes having her attention. It sounds like maybe they want to be friends. It doesn't hurt to let them know where the boundaries are. Tell them that joking around is ok as long as they mean no harm, but <insert whatever> is not ok.

If the comments bother you, you must ask them to stop. Let them know that their workplace conduct is inappropriate. If they don't stop, it is time to talk to the boss. It is considered sexual harassment if they continue. If the comments are mean-spirited, or if you think you could be in danger by replying, then talk to someone so they can make it stop.

I hope it works out and they actually become friends.

I didn't see anything in your post about coming out to your co-workers.  Have you done so?  If you are just hoping they will notice, they won't.  The changes are too gradual.  It's like the proverbial frogs in a pot of water that is being heated up to boiling: they won't notice.

I found that the best way for me to avoid the ambiguity was to be unambiguous.  I participated in several groups.  In each case, I sent a group email and said, "The next time you see me, I will be Kathy."  And I followed through: the next time they saw me, I wore my wig and women's clothes.  Whether they understood or not, there was no doubt as to what response I was aiming for.

Prior to transitioning I was slowly presenting more and more female over time. I was wearing mostly female clothes, carrying a female wallet, had both ears pierced, wore female jewelry including my diamond wedding ring, and had my fingernails painted.

When I transitioned, I told everyone who mattered. What I found funny is that some people said, well its about time, but  other people said, seriously I had no idea that you were trans.

People often see what they want to see. If you want everyone to see you the same way sometimes with some people you will need to be very direct with them. And then be willing to remind them/enforce it when they make errors.

I had to bite my tongue because I can be a horribly sarcastic, vicious cow with stuff like that. If I told you to say what I would have said, you'd have probably got fired, lol.

I kind of agree with Lori though. The issue isn't with you. It's with the people you deal with. And if you make it about you, it will drive you mad.

Quote from: Nadine Spirit on December 21, 2024, 03:45:37 PMPrior to transitioning I was slowly presenting more and more female over time. I was wearing mostly female clothes, carrying a female wallet, had both ears pierced, wore female jewelry including my diamond wedding ring, and had my fingernails painted.

When I transitioned, I told everyone who mattered. What I found funny is that some people said, well its about time, but  other people said, seriously I had no idea that you were trans.

People often see what they want to see. If you want everyone to see you the same way sometimes with some people you will need to be very direct with them. And then be willing to remind them/enforce it when they make errors.

This makes sense Kelly.

Chrissy

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 21, 2024, 01:28:24 PMHard to say for sure as people have different interpretations of what they see and then they may react differently.  If there is some ambiguity that can lead to confusion.

Just be yourself.  You want everyone to accept you in the gender you are, I know.  We all do.

I cannot relate to multi-gender at the same time but I can understand gender fluid and androgynous people to some extent.  In any case I would not pass a bad judgment I do not think.

I think that many MTFs have been thought of by some people as being gay. 

Chrissy

Quote from: Lori Dee on December 21, 2024, 02:38:24 PMFirst off, you are worrying about the wrong stuff.

If you are being yourself and are otherwise happy, why do you care what other people think? We often get ourselves so twisted up worrying about what others think and we can't enjoy just being ourselves. If you want to wear makeup, do it. If you want to dress feminine or masculine, do it. If people have a problem with it, it is THEIR problem.

The comments are crude, but that is typical of "guys being guys". When I receive a comment like that, I look them straight in the eye and ask, "Are you hitting on me?"

Or if they ask if you like pink, say, "Yeah, so what?" or "Don't you?".

When they ask if you like catching, say, "I bet you would be good at it" and maybe wink at him. If it is all in good fun, and horseplay among coworkers, have some fun with them. They might just be testing to see if it is okay to joke around with you, or if you are going to be uptight about it.

It could be a way of flirting. Guys don't always get it. They will do things that seem normal for a guy to do, but he is doing it to flirt and girls wonder what they are thinking. Think of the schoolboy who chases the girl with a frog or a snake. He isn't being mean, he just likes having her attention. It sounds like maybe they want to be friends. It doesn't hurt to let them know where the boundaries are. Tell them that joking around is ok as long as they mean no harm, but <insert whatever> is not ok.

If the comments bother you, you must ask them to stop. Let them know that their workplace conduct is inappropriate. If they don't stop, it is time to talk to the boss. It is considered sexual harassment if they continue. If the comments are mean-spirited, or if you think you could be in danger by replying, then talk to someone so they can make it stop.

I hope it works out and they actually become friends.

None of it bothered me and I would respond similar to how you would because I joke around with people at work

I just don't understand how it's so hard to believe I'm trans

Do I really look so much like a dude People can't wrap their minds around me ever looking like a woman ?

I care about passing not how others think about me though if you don't pass it can make life extremely alienable or excruciating in most places

I care about passing because I want to look like my gender for my own happiness not others

I hope that's clear

Quote from: Selene858 on December 21, 2024, 05:18:29 PMDo I really look so much like a dude People can't wrap their minds around me ever looking like a woman ?

Maybe you have it backward. Maybe you look so much like a woman they can't believe it.

Maybe they are joking around about it as their way of trying to accept it without asking uncomfortable questions. Perhaps you could educate them slowly in the same manner.

When my brother found out I was trans, he asked point blank if I was going to cut my junk off. I guess he felt that as a sibling he was entitled to ask offensive questions. My answer was that nobody cuts off anything, it just gets repurposed and he should read a book once in a while.

The point is that we were joking back and forth, but I was able to inform him that he didn't know what he was talking about and should probably learn about the subject before making crass comments.

It sounds like, overall, you have a good working relationship with these guys. Maybe over time, they will soften up a bit. I could foresee you having lunch together and a serious question came up like, "So what made you decide to become transgender?" That could open the door to a dialogue where they can ask questions and learn, and you can explain to them that it is not a decision we make. We are born this way.

I am hoping it works out well and you can make friends out of it. It never hurts to have allies who can jump in and help you.

I received a lot of harassment when I was in the service. There were a lot of jokes and comments (they thought I was gay). I was physically assaulted which left me with a permanent back injury. I never knew who attacked me, but I had suspicions. After that, my roommates stepped up for me. They put an end to the rumors and gay jokes on my behalf. And told me who they thought did it and about other people this person had attacked. Eventually, that person was shunned by other members of our unit because of his behavior.

I hope it works out for you too... minus the physical assault part. 

Hi Selene

Selene, it sounds like people are often confused about your gender, but it's important to point out that you are rarely gendered as "sir." That tells me you have already made progress, even if it doesn't always feel that way.  Based on what you have shared, it also seems like you may want to be seen and recognized as female, even if you didn't explicitly say that.

The changes you have made such as growing out your hair, getting bangs, lip fillers, adjusting your posture and presenting more femininely show that feeling more feminine and being perceived that way matters to you.  Therapy could be really helpful in working through these feelings, building confidence and figuring out the next steps while reminding you of how far you have already come.

I would suggest continuing with HRT because changes can take several years to fully develop and it sounds like you are already seeing some positive effects.  Although you have not specifically mentioned anything about hair removal, addressing any problems associated with hair still present, then continued hair removal through laser or electrolysis would also be worth considering since it can make a big difference in softening your appearance and helping you feel more comfortable in your skin.  It might also be a good time to start thinking about legally changing your name, as this could reinforce your identity and make social interactions and paperwork feel easier to navigate.

Surgeries, like facial feminization (FFS) or breast augmentation (BA), could be an option down the road if you feel they would help you feel more aligned with how you want to be seen.  I think it's important to consult with professionals first and give yourself time to figure out what's right for you.  Having a backup plan both financially and emotionally can give you peace of mind as you work through these possibilities.

I don't see your journey as a failure at all.  It sounds like you are still in the process of figuring things out and that's completely okay.  With continued adjustments, emotional support and maybe a few more changes to how you present yourself, I really believe you'll feel more validated and respected.  It's clear you are determined and I think that determination is going to take you far.

It must be said that other members have given you sound advice and suggestions to consider.  So take your time and you will get to where you are going eventually.

Take care and I wish you all the best for the future.

Best Wishes Always
Sarah B
Global Moderator
@Selene858

I will share some of my experiences related to my previous workplace experiences in which people knew I was trans and that I was in the process of transitioning. I'm a trans man and live in Brazil, so keep in mind the cultural differences.

At least in my case, people struggled with seeing me accurately as a guy. Partially because I began my social transition before I had access of HRT, so people usually saw a person who dressed in a very masculine way and had no breasts (I wore binders to make them less noticeable), however, my voice was too high and my face was too soft.

Basically, I had no doubt some people assumed I had to be a butch lesbian before HRT. I also was still in the process of changing my name, so they all knew I had to be transgender as the name I gave to them was a very different and very masculine name. It was the complete opposite of the name I was given at birth.

What I went through can be summarized as: Curious people asking things to learn, malicious people asking things to humiliate me, transphobic people stopping me from using the bathroom, people being confused about my pronouns, people accidentally (or not) misgendering people, people deadnaming me despite knowing I absolutely hated that, people trying to talk about the Christian God and that I would always be (deadname), etc.

Eventually, I got to the point my voice was lower, I grew a beard and my face seemed to get a more angular shape (with fat distribution alone, my bones didn't change). Even then, many of the behaviors I described above happened. I thought I had to be doing something wrong until I moved to another workplace.

Everyone treated me like a regular cis guy. Nobody knew I was transgender when I arrived. I passed 100% of the time. The reason I wasn't treated like a guy wasn't because I didn't pass. It was because they knew I was trans.

Perhaps a do not tell you are transgender practice may be the way to go for a number of transgender people.

Chrissy

Some people are curious.  Some people are nosey.  Some people are accepting.  Some people are not.  Some people sorta freak out and wish to stay away.  Some people are welcoming.

Who we run into and who we disclose to is certainly a personal decision.

It is possible to think that someone is transsexual but that person is CIS.  It can happen more often than one may think.

Ideally, I want people to think I am CIS but I am a MTF transsexual. 

More importantly, I am me.  I just try to live as me. 

Chrissy