Quote from: Camille58S on April 26, 2025, 07:22:38 PM... why we would wait until this age [=fifties and sixties] to make such a huge discovery. Any thoughts?

In my case, I think that even as a young child I had a feeling that I was more of a girl than a boy, but I was so frightened by the (social) consequences of even thinking about it that I repressed it.  I remember in third grade reading The Marvelous Land of Oz and being frightened by the part where Tip gets turned (back) into Ozma and having a feeling of dread.  I would sometimes imagine waking up one morning as a girl and imagine the abuse and rejection and ostracism I would inevitably face if that ever really happened.

But I always knew that I wasn't a real boy.  I remember even in first grade hating and rejecting most of the stuff that boys were expected to do and be -- and being ostracized for it.  I was constantly called "queer" and "weirdo", once I reached the age when boys were aware of the terms.  I grew up feeling like I wasn't really human (a feeling which persists to this day.)

As an adult I saw the ways I was more like an woman than a man.  I remember all the "Dear Abby" letters that said that men's attitude toward sex was doing "the old in-and-out" while women were more interested in cuddling, and thinking that I had the women's attitude.  The whole "be number one" thing never attracted me, and I preferred cooperating to competing.  And I liked the idea of being "pretty", even if being assigned male meant I wasn't allowed to do it.

But even after I learned of "trans" (around 2000?), I didn't think of myself as "trans" since I never felt like "a woman trapped in a man's body," nor had I always thought of myself as a girl.  (More like a space alien.)  What happened was that around that time I realized that remaining alive had no appeal to me.  Just letting myself dissolve into nothingness seemed rather nice.  However, I had two kids (11 & 14) who needed me for emotional support (my wife was better at some things, but not emotional support), so I went through the painful process of divorcing and setting up my own household.  And I realized -- at age 50 -- that if I was going to stay alive, I would have to stop trying (however unsuccessfully) to be what other people said I had to be and find out who I really was.

A large part of my consciously accepting the idea that I was trans came from the stuff I was reading on the Web.  I think the Web really freed us, and it showed me that trans was a lot broader than the leering stuff that the mainstream media were feeding us.  And so, at age 60, I started exploring that idea, and at 63, I transitioned.

I don't think I could have even considered the idea of transitioning before, say, 2000.  The world I knew was just too hostile to the idea, and there didn't seem to be any support systems in place.  I'm basically a coward, and starting on a path when I couldn't clearly see any safe way of proceeding was just too scary.

Quote from: Asche on April 28, 2025, 07:35:37 AMIn my case, I think that even as a young child I had a feeling that I was more of a girl than a boy, but I was so frightened by the (social) consequences of even thinking about it that I repressed it.

Hi Asche, lots of hugs, been there, had most of those thoughts. Did a lot of us took the quite pragmatic decision then that maybe now wasn't the time? There was such a stack of prejudice against being trans that a lot of people recognised which way the wind was blowing on their gender identity ended up doing what you did. Hell, I did it too  and that was despite having a girlfriend in my teens who was encouraging beyond the call of duty.

Once you've gone down the 'now isn't the time' road, then repression or denial are tempting paths to follow, although for people who haven't had some kind of escape valve they often led to a lot of angst. I lost count of the people where I asked, 'If you could have transitioned and known you'd be accepted, would you have done it 10/20/30 years ago?' Never once did I get the answer 'No'.

That's very helpful, but I'd love to hear from someone who never had the single digit years experience of trans-ness who lived a life free of mental health and relationship issues for several decades before discovering they were trans. If we have people like that here, it will rewrite a lot of assumptions.

Quote from: Asche on April 28, 2025, 07:35:37 AMThe world I knew was just too hostile to the idea, and there didn't seem to be any support systems in place. 

I've described my situation this way.  Unfortunately the societal pendulum seems to be moving backwards.  I can't change who I am though.  Won't.  Just have to be cautious.

Quote from: D'Amalie on April 28, 2025, 08:02:29 AMUnfortunately the societal pendulum seems to be moving backwards. 

Just by discussing it here, we push it the other way, hon.

Quote from: TanyaG on April 28, 2025, 05:33:05 AMI'd be interested to hear the stories of anyone here who didn't have early memories like you and I do, especially members who weren't part of families or communities which were strongly anti-trans. Even the hint that such people exist is intriguing.

I'm 66 and really don't have any early memories of wanting to dress in womans clothes. I do have a couple memories of a Halloween when I may have been about 6 and at Halloween My older sister dressed me as a girl for Halloween.  I vaguely recollect this but it was not a bad thing and after that it became a thing that my older sister would spend more time with me for the next couple years playing dress up. I never payed no mind. It was only like i said a very vague memory. This stopped after we moved and I she got new friends. I often wonder if it ever really happened.
Nothing ever like this ever happened again.

I grew up and moved to England at the age of 9 and becam real close friend with my neighbor. I never thought much about it. She was the same age. We became very good friends.  We were inseparable. Nothing really happened but my brothers all had guy friends.  I never thought much about it until recently. Maybe it's nothing. In 1974 I moved back to USA.

I went to high school and met my girlfriend, joined the Navy,  got married, had 2 children. During this time things started to shift. I was never able to explain what was going on. I would be very jelous of her why I could never figure out why. It was not of normal things. I would have something inside me and  just want something more like her and I couldn't explain. Anyway so I would make many deployments in the Navy.  It would be many many months away from home. After years of marriage I wrote my wife on one of thoughts of wanting to wear his her nightgowns to bed. I think I was reaching out. Long story short. Shut down. This led to divorce.

Throughout my life Transgender was not really ever heard of. At least not in my circles. It was always gay or lesbian. My wife was a catholic and I was brought up catholic. So this idea was always deemed not heard of. After divorce, I started to investigate things but still Transgender disnt really come into my circle unti the 2020's. This is when I started to hear and see more of this. My son came out to me and my family as a transgender woman about 5 years ago. At this time, I was still not sure but I started to have more thoughts about myself but still suppressed so much as I was still in Government service. It wasn't until recently that I started to reflect on my life and I couldn't deny who I was anymore.

Quote from: Annaliese on April 28, 2025, 08:21:03 AMI do have a couple memories of a Halloween when I may have been about 6 and at Halloween My older sister dressed me as a girl for Halloween.  I vaguely recollect this but it was not a bad thing and after that it became a thing that my older sister would spend more time with me for the next couple years playing dress up.

Interesting you have those memories. Straight away my response is that vast majority of people I've known/worked with don't have bad memories of what they felt about being dressed as girls, only of other people's bad reactions to them being dressed as girls, but if it went on for a couple of years then I'd flag it because it's not something you come across in cis people. I'd add its the bad reactions that cause the suppression, but the feeling of contentment, or 'right-ness' of being able to be another gender seems to open a door in the mind to how life might be lived another way.

Plenty of late teen/adult men have dressed in women's clothes once (usually stag parties, hazing etc) but it's unusual for it to happen at single digit ages and for it to be repeated, let alone for any length of time. Yet trans people reliably have memories of repeated episodes of dressing as the other sex. Thanks for being so honest, it shows how amazingly complex this gender id thing is.

I was also brought up a Catholic, BTW but by the age of ten was arguing the Jesuits to a standstill and they eventually used to chase me away when I came up with another question! I still have fond memories of those guys even if they must have dreaded seeing me.

Good points Tanya. But, not realizing you were trans doesn't mean fitting in. I struggled all my life with the male script. I could play it well enough to be accepted, but it never felt right. I always felt like a imposter. I had plenty of reasons to feel that way. As a child and young adult, I spoke with a serious stutter. I beat it by the time I was 25, but it taught me a few things! I learned what it felt like to be teased for something that you had no control over. That gave me a strong sense of empathy. It made me more thoughtful also.
On top of that I am bisexual. I realized that by the time I was 12. So, my feelings of not fitting in with the typical bro culture I attributed to that. None of that, however, felt quite right It wasn't until I discovered my feminine side that I felt comfortable and complete. I never thought about my gender identity until then.

Quote from: Camille58S on April 28, 2025, 08:59:18 AMBut, not realizing you were trans doesn't mean fitting in. I struggled all my life with the male script. I could play it well enough to be accepted, but it never felt right. I always felt like a imposter.

I've expressed myself badly, then. If you go back and can pick up the first clue that someone was trans, which is usually somewhere between the ages of 4 and 6 but maybe a little later, then regardless of whether they realised whether they were trans or not at that age, problems tend to pile up between then and when they accept they are trans. In other words, whether you can put a name to it or not, the difference between how you would like to be and how family and society make you be ends up stressing you out.

Does that make sense?

Quote from: Camille58S on April 28, 2025, 08:59:18 AMOn top of that I am bisexual. I realized that by the time I was 12. So, my feelings of not fitting in with the typical bro culture I attributed to that. None of that, however, felt quite right It wasn't until I discovered my feminine side that I felt comfortable and complete. I never thought about my gender identity until then.

You did better on the mixed sex attraction than I did then, which didn't get picked up on despite everyone and his dog having a field day with what's in my head. I'd suspected it was there, but that I'd suppressed it and I only flushed it into the open by extremely devious methods! A bit too late for me to take advantage of it, but hey, I feel good about it.

Quote from: TanyaG on April 28, 2025, 08:31:16 AMvast majority of people I've known/worked with don't have bad memories of what they felt about being dressed as girls, only of other people's bad reactions to them being dressed as girls,

Very true!  I'm guessing we could profile ourselves with tidbits like this!

Quote from: Camille58S on April 28, 2025, 08:59:18 AMI struggled all my life with the male script. I could play it well enough to be accepted, but it never felt right. I always felt like a imposter. I had plenty of reasons to feel that way.

Again!  Add this to the profile.

Quote from: D'Amalie on April 28, 2025, 09:18:29 AMI'm guessing we could profile ourselves with tidbits like this!

Anyone can do it. I've found it quite amazingly liberating, because so many things I did and thought fall into place and I can see why I took all the wrong turns I did and even some of the ones that were right :-) But more than anything, it's left me at peace with myself.

I've had a go at listing out some of the feelings people experience about being trans here and I'm sure others can add to the list. Most of this stuff we share in common.

All this leads me to be glad I am in therapy! Speech disorder? Bisexuality? Self diagnosing sucks!

Quote from: TanyaG on April 28, 2025, 08:31:16 AMI'd add Plenty of late teen/adult men have dressed in women's clothes once (usually stag parties, hazing etc) but it's unusual for it to happen at single digit ages and for it to be repeated, let alone for any length of time. Yet trans people reliably have memories of repeated episodes of dressing as the other sex. Thanks for being so honest, it shows how amazingly complex this gender id thing is.

Oh I had several repeated episodes of dressing as a woman since my divorce. I also had a relationship dealing in bisexuality and another with cross dressing. This all happened after the incident with my ex wife. I listed alot of these in my introduction.  It has been a long time struggle.

Quote from: Camille58S on April 28, 2025, 09:29:41 AMAll this leads me to be glad I am in therapy!

Therapy's good and now you'll be able to test your therapist's resolve with everything we've shared between us :-)

Quote from: Annaliese on April 28, 2025, 09:31:46 AMOh I had several repeated episodes of dressing as a woman since my divorce.

Then it's been persistent in you, even if it was intermittent. There are so many people with similar stories. I can remember a couple of people who came to me about relationships which were gay and involved cross dressing on their part and were rocked when I asked what the issue was they'd come to me about. Among the best moments in my life was watching the expressions on their faces change from an expectation of censure to disbelief I wasn't fussed about it, and finally to 'Okaaay, what is it actually does bug me about this experience?'

I wish I was raised as a girl.  I was not. 

But, that is okay.  It is not something that I could or can control. 

There are many things I can control, why fret over what you cannot?  So I do not.

I am unsure what makes someone transgender or why they realize they are at any specific age.  Some things are not easily explained, at least by me.


Chrissy

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on April 28, 2025, 09:42:58 AMBut, that is okay.  It is not something that I could or can control. 

Which is great, if you don't have any issues, then there's no need to deal with them. But for people who do, therapy is really powerful, because a lot of us have a tendency to chain the dragons of our minds to the foot of our beds. Which is fine when the dragons are small, but they have a habit of not staying that way. Therapy is a gateway to allowing people to unchain their dragons, or at the very least, stop feeding them a high protein diet :-)

Quote from: TanyaG on April 28, 2025, 02:52:08 AMWhat you, Camille, and April Marie are saying is that you didn't suspect anything when you were children?

Nope. I knew I was a girl when I was four years old but that passing notion was violently dispelled as were a few feeble subsequent attempts at expressing femininity. Fortunately, I realized I was female attracted and assumed many hetero-males experienced a childhood 'girl' phase. I did not bring the 'suppressed' feminine identity to conscious thought until a decade or so ago following a life of compulsive behaviors, more failed relationships than Elizabeth Taylor, and 'closeted' cross-dressing that began in my early twenties which I considered to be a weird and perverse fetish (though there was never any high degree of sexuality associated with the cross dressing--I just liked doing it). Hope that clarifies things, TanyaG. 

Quote from: Mrs. Oliphant on April 28, 2025, 09:48:58 AMI did not bring the 'suppressed' feminine identity to conscious thought until a decade or so ago following a life of compulsive behaviors, more failed relationships than Elizabeth Taylor,

You too, then. More trouble happens in that gap between us suspecting we're trans (even if we write it off as episodes of childhood crossdressing) and when we accept we're trans than, as my dear mother would say, 'you can shake a stick at'.