Quote from: Mrs. Oliphant on April 28, 2025, 09:48:58 AMNope. I knew I was a girl when I was four years old

I was closer to five, I think. I didn't know I was a girl, I just knew I didn't like certain dangly bits. Though I recognized the difference between boys and girls, I never saw the difference as sexual. No different than racial characteristics that are recognizable. As a teen, I was always confused about people's seeming obsession with sex. It was like that was all they talked about. Decades later, I learned that I am an ace (asexual), so that explains those past experiences.

I never experimented with cross-dressing or even thought about it. As the oldest of four "boys," I was expected to set a good example, and that training came from my dad. But that also did not provide any opportunity to experiment with cross-dressing, and perhaps being an ace suppressed that idea from coming forward. That just isn't how I see people.

It is interesting to look back and see the signposts that you never saw growing up. As they say, "Hindsight is 20/20."

Quote from: Lori Dee on April 28, 2025, 10:01:28 AMwas closer to five, I think.

Somewhere between four and six is the crucial age for us beginning to understand gender and you were lucky you got such a strong steer, Lori! So many of us just caught a reflection of it in dressing up as another sex, but had no idea what we were seeing in the mirror.

Quote from: TanyaG on April 28, 2025, 10:04:54 AMSomewhere between four and six is the crucial age for us beginning to understand gender and you were lucky you got such a strong steer, Lori! So many of us just caught a reflection of it in dressing up as another sex, but had no idea what we were seeing in the mirror.

In retrospect, I can recall times playing as a kid away from home, and the scenario (playing "house") required a female role. Everyone wanted the male role, so I "reluctantly" gave in to fill the female role. I felt more comfortable in that role. Decades later, my online gaming personas were female. Yet the decades of male scripting had a profound effect. When I was diagnosed with GD, I rejected it and the idea that it meant I was gay. But as I learned what it all meant, I began to connect the dots.

Even now, in this thread, I am reminded of some things that I had forgotten; another dot that gets connected to the whole. 

Quote from: Lori Dee on April 28, 2025, 10:13:34 AMEven now, in this thread, I am reminded of some things that I had forgotten; another dot that gets connected to the whole.

I like to think of it as the archeology of the mind. Hand me that shovel, darling :-)

Quote from: TanyaG on April 28, 2025, 09:47:57 AMWhich is great, if you don't have any issues, then there's no need to deal with them. But for people who do, therapy is really powerful, because a lot of us have a tendency to chain the dragons of our minds to the foot of our beds. Which is fine when the dragons are small, but they have a habit of not staying that way. Therapy is a gateway to allowing people to unchain their dragons, or at the very least, stop feeding them a high protein diet :-)

Yes, agreed.  I think therapy is wise and useful for most people that have concerns or issues that need to be clarified.
I have had these helpful sessions.

Chrissy

I saw a presentation on Queer Aging and Gender Transitions Later in Life

Here are some slides from the presentation...

Quote from: Zoey Addisyn on April 28, 2025, 05:58:09 PMI saw a presentation on Queer Aging and Gender Transitions Later in Life

I believe this answer a lot of how I feel.  This is why I say tomorrow is too late and there's no time to look back.

I regret not transitioning when I was younger. I've always known just too afraid to take that step.

I remember thinking, when I was first considering going out of the house wearing a skirt, long before I thought of myself as trans: yes, they could kill me, but if I hide inside my home -- my prison -- I might as well be dead anyway.  And I could get run over by a bus tomorrow (or even today) even if I hide.  At least if I go out in my skirt, I'd get a few days living as myself.

So nowadays I say: if they kill me, they kill me.  But I won't cower and hide any more.  (But I will be careful!)

(Actually, this is how I'd managed my life for a long time.  Whenever I faced some scary step, I would say to myself, you have a choice.  You can move forward.  Or you can stay in your coffin and wait for someone to nail it shut.  And my fear of being nailed up in a coffin has always been greater than my fear of the next step.

Quote from: TanyaG on April 28, 2025, 03:24:38 AMSo either AMAB people presenting as trans post 47 is a post 2014 phenomenon in the Netherlands at least, or something has changed. The question is what?

Good question, TanyaG. I would look first at the study: does 'presenting' infer GAS? (Cedars-Sinai study a few years ago described GV by the age of 4 and GD by 7 but subjects were limited to those who subsequently received GAS). Assuming 'presenting' is straightforward in its meaning, perhaps the norms, mores, and values differ significantly between the Netherlands and the US (or GB). Assuming cultural differences are not significant, then I am out of facile answers and must reach for intangibles: empathy--the times in this country are such that any honorable man feels compelled to assert he is a woman (like, if I remember correctly, the Dutch (speaking of the Netherlands) wore yellow stars in WWII regardless of religious affiliation). Or, some disparity between gender affirming care systems and reporting. But, assuming the accuracy of the Netherlands study regarding age of affirmation, in my own peculiar case, it was the fear I would die pretending I was someone I never had a right to pretend to be (as expressed in a subsequent post by Zoey). I'm not going to mention nanoplastics or quantum mechanics, but I am intrigued by the question: Why now? Unlike you, I do not have the credentials to offer an answer or even a conjecture. But I hope you find one; I would like to know 'why now?'.  

Quote from: Mrs. Oliphant on April 28, 2025, 09:09:32 PMI would look first at the study: does 'presenting' infer GAS?

It's easy to miss it, but the numbers I quoted were specifically people who were started on HRT. About half the referrals for GAC in the Amsterdam Cohort Study either dropped out or didn't start on HRT, so those are the best figures we've got.

Quote from: Jessica 33 on April 28, 2025, 06:37:34 PMI regret not transitioning when I was younger. I've always known just too afraid to take that step.

Don't be too hard on yourself, because it's a rational fear and it isn't the case that everyone must transition. Better to do it at the right time for you than do it before you've got your head straight. Our circumstances are all different, so what's right for someone else isn't necessarily going to be right for you.

Quote from: TanyaG on April 29, 2025, 03:23:48 AMDon't be too hard on yourself, because it's a rational fear and it isn't the case that everyone must transition. Better to do it at the right time for you than do it before you've got your head straight. Our circumstances are all different, so what's right for someone else isn't necessarily going to be right for you.

The problem is it never goes away. I should be a female,I want to be female.Sometimes I can blot it out but it's always been there.The desire is stronger than ever.I know I would be happier living as female it's the collateral damage along the way ie family / relationships.
I've never told anyone I'm trans.Think my sisters suspect as in asking me to be bridesmaid and calling me girl/ bitch in jest

Incongruence is a birth condition which is with us for life. Our circumstances dictate how we handle it, and it seems the levels of incongruence vary from person to person, as well as at different times of their lives.

My awareness at 4 years old manifested in persistent dreams where I was a girl, and a strong desire to present that way, but my circumstances prevented this from happening. My dreams and urges (I started to realise they were not desires as I wished they would go away) persisted and by my teens I realised that my incongruence was something different to what I wanted for myself in life. Of course, in the 1960's I had no terminology for this.

I found ways to reduce and tolerate my incongruence, and pursue my life goals. These included having children and securing a life for my family. In this pursuit, I was crazy busy, and had no time for incongruence (Though it was still very much there). By midlife I was happy with the life I had created, and my circumstances allowed me to take steps to deal with my persistent incongruence in that my then spouse agreed that I could present as I needed at home, and change career to work with women. This worked really well for 2 decades.

From my late 40's, my T levels started to fall (though my levels were never high) and I avoided male aging effects of hair loss on my head and gain on my body. Through my 50's, I was diagnosed with hypogonadism, and I noticed genital atrophy. In this period, my dysphoria from incongruence increased. The agreement with my wife was that I never revealed my incongruence to anyone, or made any moves to transition, and I loved my life with her.

In my 60's, my dysphoria increased to bouts of depression, and finally to affecting my immune system, causing me to become seriously unwell. At 65 my doctor talked me into trying low dose Estrogen which worked to cure me from my illness, but, fearing my wife would leave me, and transition would cost me other loved ones, I stopped Estrogen (I never needed anti androgens). Of course, my illness returned, and my wife argued for me to re start Estrogen. I had a deep fear of losing those close to me, and fell into a deep depression for months, until I came out to my family.

Fortunately, everyone was supportive of my transition, so my depression left me, but after my genital surgery, so did my wife. In reflection, I wish I never had gender incongruence. It made my life miserable and cost me my soul mate. I realise it is a medical condition I was born with, and had to deal with all my life. I had realised it was not who I was, or my 'true self', and I realised my 'true self' independent of my incongruence. I have fully transitioned, and live a comfortable life, but I don't now and will never feel authentic in myself. The presentation I currently have is not who I truly am.

Hugs,

Allie

Thank you all for your replies! I'm reading them, and I'm starting to see that maybe nothing really changed in me 4 years ago. I just finally realized who I am. So many of your experiences echo in me. Yes, I too was very busy with life during my younger years. But, I was maybe too stubborn ( or stupid) to see the truth.

Quote from: Allie Jayne on April 29, 2025, 06:39:57 PMIt made my life miserable and cost me my soul mate.

Few losses are greater, Allie Jayne. I lost my soulmate a long, long time ago. I just wasn't 'man' enough to keep her. Like you, I would trade every feminine aspect of my life to be the 'man' she thought I was when we married. Now, I am determined to become the woman who was her best friend. As she was mine.

Quote from: Mrs. Oliphant on April 29, 2025, 08:05:04 PMFew losses are greater, Allie Jayne. I lost my soulmate a long, long time ago. I just wasn't 'man' enough to keep her. Like you, I would trade every feminine aspect of my life to be the 'man' she thought I was when we married. Now, I am determined to become the woman who was her best friend. As she was mine.

My second wife recognised that I was both male and female before we married and realised she needed both aspects of me in her life. She had her own challenges, and a lifetime of feeling inferior to deal with, and this is why she could not bear to be seen as married to a woman. For most of our marriage I was not able to fulfil my 'husbandly duties', but she was happy. Female or male was never important to me, I valued both aspects of my life. My need was to conceive and bear babies, but that could never happen. Incongruence and dysphoria was a scourge I desperately wanted to be rid of, and transition mostly accomplished that. I didn't need to be anything other than me, though that can be lonely at times.

Hugs,

Allie

Quote from: Jessica 33 on April 29, 2025, 04:32:32 PMThe problem is it never goes away. I should be a female,I want to be female.Sometimes I can blot it out but it's always been there.The desire is stronger than ever.I know I would be happier living as female it's the collateral damage along the way ie family / relationships.

It's clear that you've accepted you are trans and if you are comfortable with that in yourself (as in, if everyone else accepted it too, you would transition without question) then you need to think about how you are going to handle the next step.

You've already identified that, it's how to introduce it to your family, if I have this right? Or whether to tell your family? It sounds as if your dysphoria is strong, so a question you might ask yourself is 'Can I cope with this if I delay/don't start transitioning?'

If the answer to that question is no, then the next one might be, 'Who is the person, or persons in my family who are most likely to understand me if I tell them first?' If that's your sisters, then one way of introducing the subject is something along the lines of 'Were you joking about me being a bridesmaid or not, because if you weren't...'

Quote from: Allie Jayne on April 29, 2025, 06:39:57 PMI had realised it was not who I was, or my 'true self', and I realised my 'true self' independent of my incongruence. I have fully transitioned, and live a comfortable life, but I don't now and will never feel authentic in myself. The presentation I currently have is not who I truly am.

That is super honest, Allie Jayne. Wow. Few people here are brave enough to write something like that so massive respect.

In a lot of respects you don't sound very different to me, except I always had priorities that led me to delay transitioning. This sounds perverse, but one of them was to continue the hunt through my mind for what my transness was, with the help of others like my poor analyst, and I was worried that if I transitioned I might lose the leads we had. In the end I didn't transition and the dig into my mind established I was non-binary, which to be fair, was something that had been staring us in the face but we'd been ignoring because we were looking for answers somewhere else.

So, lots of hugs Allie, you always come across as such a nice person, but I'll score a special affection for you over that post.

Quote from: Camille58S on April 29, 2025, 07:54:34 PMThank you all for your replies! I'm reading them, and I'm starting to see that maybe nothing really changed in me 4 years ago. I just finally realized who I am. So many of your experiences echo in me. Yes, I too was very busy with life during my younger years. But, I was maybe too stubborn ( or stupid) to see the truth.

In many of us, there's a pause between suspecting we are trans and acceptance and I think it has to be gone through. In a way, it's like a bereavement, the loss being the gender we were brought up in. Even though we didn't like it, it connected us with people in intricate ways that we realise we will now have to disentangle, or maybe even lose.