Quote from: Tills on May 23, 2025, 07:09:17 AMAs you have mentioned, Republic of Ireland is a clear option for us UK citizens, with the added bonus of EU entry if you apply for Irish citizenship after 5 yrs.

One of the big problems in Ireland is the price of property is sky high there, so that's a consideration too.

Another thing that has always made me inclined to take the long view is that all it takes is a change of government and an atmosphere of political tolerance can evaporate overnight, as happened in the US. We're entering a phase of right wing governments in Europe driven by attitudes to immigration that's already pushing France and Germany to the right. The UK has Reform waiting in the wings, of course, so there's more to come here and what may seem a safe haven today may not be so safe tomorrow from a political point of view.

What won't change so fast are the attitudes of ordinary people. If the government of say Spain lurches to the right, the attitudes of the citizens of Barcelona are far less likely to do so and ultimately it is to ordinary people and common culture that politicians must ulimately submit, much though they may protest. My judgment is like Dev's, as Boomers age out, attitudes are likely to continue the path of becoming more tolerant as they've been doing for the past fifty years.

Quote from: TanyaG on May 23, 2025, 04:56:45 AMThe news is full of clickbait, Kira. If you're thinking of going, do it, but where are you going to go?

I've no problem accepting you wish to leave, Kira, none whatever, but please remember I also have a right to an opinion.

I am unclear how anything I said suggested that you were not allowed an opinion (?), but if that was the impression you got then I am pleased to clarify that I understand that you are entitled to an opinion and to expressing it. 

I think that you should reconsider your disregarding the UN, Human Rights Watch, The Good Law Project and ILGA as producing 'clickbait'.  If you have a genuine critique of them, showing them to be disreputable, I would be pleased to see it, but if you are dismissing them without reason when they raise the alarm, the High Court Judge Victoria McCloud labelling the UK unsafe for trans people and all my personal experiences, then I think this is unduly dismissing evidence of danger.

The insinuation that my position is baseless, resting on 'clickbait' and the disregarding of my noting several occasions I have been present for altercations which support the narrative in the writings by UN, HRW, TGLP and ILGA, is invalidating of my personal experience without reason. I understand that they may not be the same as your experience, and that your experience is equally valid, but I am arguing that these things are happening, that I have personal experience of places in the UK that have become unsafe, and that other people and organisations are warning of the same.  Why would you disregard all this, and instead extrapolate your personal experience to the UK and suggest or infer that we are over reacting?

The strongest contender for fleeing is Ireland, as people from the UK have the right to live and work there and access benefits. It also has self ID and is part of Europe and gives you an EU passport in 5 years that will open up the EU to you to flee to, should things go sideways in Ireland.

Quote from: Tills on May 23, 2025, 07:03:04 AMI don't want to be a pedant but she wasn't and isn't a Supreme court judge.

Sorry I meant to say High Court judge. I do apologise.

I have to say I do find it quite frustrating, that each time I post to warn people of potential danger, even where I support it with personal experiences, and supporting evidence, others seem to want to say "oh I have no problems, so, counter point... people should not worry about what you are saying and its probably all just over reaction".

OK, but I have experienced quite severe issues. Others might too. I am trying to prevent harm, but others seem comfortable telling people that there is no need for alarm. OK, but I am scared for people in the UK. I am going to keep on warning people.

Let's not argue.   

Of course safety is important. Reporting news is important. But adding embellishments or hyperbole can have the opposite effect of what you may be trying to convey. Some people are literal learners and will take statements like "Everyone is out to  get us" or "They're coming for us" as an absolute fact.

While we need to have the discussions, we also need to make sure we're doing it in a way that doesn't cause other problems.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: TanyaG on May 23, 2025, 07:22:31 AMOne of the big problems in Ireland is the price of property is sky high there, so that's a consideration too.

I'm agreeing with pretty much everything you're posting on this at the moment, but for sake of peeps reading this who may be considering a move to the Republic of Ireland, property prices aren't really that sky high as long as you steer clear of Dublin and Wicklow. This is something @Devlyn has been pointing out to me, and she's essentially correct.

You can buy a spick and span, turnkey ready, apartment in a nice town or city for $135,000 USD. If you're prepared to do a place up you can buy an entire house in the country for half that figure, although you do need to watch out for concrete degradation in the west and north-west.

It's tantalisingly close for me. I'm about $20,000 short of where I'd like to be but I'm working on it. Anyone feel like donating to the cause? 

My alternative is Thailand. Very cheap place to live. I probably wouldn't bother to buy outright as renting is cheap cheap. But if you do buy you can get super condos in the city centre of Bangkok for c. $80000 USD. Cheaper still in many other areas.

I've spent a LOT of the last 10 years back and forth there, and I lived in Bangkok. I had my two major surgeries there, which were excellent. However, it's Thailand and you need to have eyes wide open. Behind the land of smiles, you need to be aware that there's a somewhat darker undercurrent if you wind people up. It's important to be polite, and stay away from dodgy areas and activities. I feel a certain reticence about going back there to retire out my days as I'm never totally relaxed there.

Sorry for these ramblings. I'm genuinely conflicted.

xx

Quote from: Tills on May 23, 2025, 08:54:07 AMfor sake of peeps reading this who may be considering a move to the Republic of Ireland, property prices aren't really that sky high as long as you steer clear of Dublin and Wicklow

That's good news. We have friends in Dublin and property prices are made there. I love Ireland, the only place in the whole world where you can see tractors triple parking outside pubs. So many stories of good times there.

That relocation cost just for being able to enter and stay certainly is not inexpensive, that is for sure.

Things to look out for in Ireland are "local needs" which means you can't live there without having local ties and  absolute, undisputed proof that you have to live there, on that spot, and nowhere else. Also usually recommended to have letters from the local athletic society and the local vicar. It's all against EU law, and the court cases are in progress.

Vacant house grants...yes, they're available. But you need to use a pre-approved list of contractors (think kickbacks and nepotism), and the money is reimbursed, not issued up front. So you need deep pockets.

Gaelic catchment areas. Some areas won't let your children attend school unless they speak Gaelic. They do offer summer courses so your kids can learn it before school starts.

Faeries. Leprechauns. The Little People. You've been warned. 

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 23, 2025, 09:40:49 AMThings to look out for in Ireland are "local needs" which means you can't live there without having local ties and  absolute, undisputed proof that you have to live there, on that spot, and nowhere else. Also usually recommended to have letters from the local athletic society and the local vicar. It's all against EU law, and the court cases are in progress.

That's for building or doing up a place in rural areas isn't it Devlyn?

I should be fine for buying an apartment in a town or city?

Quote from: Devlyn on May 23, 2025, 09:40:49 AMFaeries. Leprechauns. The Little People. You've been warned. 

Hugs, Devlyn

 

Quote from: Tills on May 23, 2025, 09:54:59 AMThat's for building or doing up a place in rural areas isn't it Devlyn?

I should be fine for buying an apartment in a town or city?

By and large, yes. The laws are designed to keep the quaint Irish countryside quaint. They don't want big glass cubes perched on cliffs or McMansions on the edge of villages. Personally I think that part is for the better.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on May 23, 2025, 10:06:03 AMThey don't want big glass cubes perched on cliffs or McMansions on the edge of villages

I've strong memories of the 'Bungalow Bliss' era which was quite the thing!

I'm going to a big Premier League soccer (UK "football") match tomorrow. The 66,000 capacity stadium is fully sold out.

There's only one way to be, and that's me, so it will be interesting to see if I encounter any hostility in what is often a very masculine atmosphere. The club specifically oppose transphobia and say so on their match day links. I'll be using the ladies loos of course.

I'll let you know how it goes!

xx

Quote from: Tills on May 23, 2025, 10:04:13 PMThere's only one way to be, and that's me, so it will be interesting to see if I encounter any hostility in what is often a very masculine atmosphere.

Hope it's a good match! It'll be interesting to hear how you get on, but enjoy yourself and stay safe!

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on May 23, 2025, 03:21:12 AMThere have been numerous confrontations and incidents in bathrooms and change rooms that I am aware of an

Do you have quantifiable evidence to back up the claim that these confrontations and incidents have increased in the UK since the ruling? As opposed to hearsay and social media rumourmongering. That would be useful, especially for helping people who look at this site if they are making informed decisions. you may be right, but let's back it up.

It's important that we keep this evidential. The same goes for me, of course.

xx

Quote from: TanyaG on May 24, 2025, 12:35:40 AMHope it's a good match! It'll be interesting to hear how you get on, but enjoy yourself and stay safe!

Thanks Tanya! I had a great time. Dressed femme, made up, and used the ladies throughout. No issues at all. Brilliant atmosphere at the game with 66,000 present in the stadium.

I'm not extrapolating from one person's experience at a football match but I didn't detect any hostility today  or anyone questioning my right to be me. Indeed, the Club made a point of displaying their support for Pride members on a neon ticker feed throughout the afternoon. All pretty cool really.

I wonder if the best response to this minority of butch TERFs is to ignore them completely, not flee, and just get on living our lives? I don't think most women give a bleep about the issue. And we're hardly going to be dragged out of the ladies by pop-up police officers.

Anyway, I came back feeling encouraged and uplifted.

xx

Quote from: Tills on May 25, 2025, 03:30:49 PMI wonder if the best response to this minority of butch TERFs is to ignore them completely, not flee, and just get on living our lives? I don't think most women give a bleep about the issue. And we're hardly going to be dragged out of the ladies by pop-up police officers.

I'm so glad you had a good time! And yes, I agree with you, I think we're more likely to benefit our cause if we don't respond to grandstanding and instead show we are people who deserve as much consideration as anyone else and who will give as much consideration as anyone else. If we can bid that realisation in then it will be very hard for the shallow end of the pool to gaslight about us being a threat to society, that's for sure!

For what it's worth, I just came out to the entire family, whose ages range from late sixties down to twenties and nobody turned a hair.

Quote from: TanyaG on May 26, 2025, 07:37:09 AMI'm so glad you had a good time! And yes, I agree with you, I think we're more likely to benefit our cause if we don't respond to grandstanding and instead show we are people who deserve as much consideration as anyone else and who will give as much consideration as anyone else. If we can bid that realisation in then it will be very hard for the shallow end of the pool to gaslight about us being a threat to society, that's for sure!

For what it's worth, I just came out to the entire family, whose ages range from late sixties down to twenties and nobody turned a hair.

Oh that's wonderful news Tanya. I am so thrilled for you. Massive congratulations and so great about their response.

xx

I had an interesting conversation with my hairdresser Poppy this morning. About covid.

She was a radical. Never wore a mask and got on and lived her life. In many ways, I was the opposite. But I now look back at all of that and question my approach.

It led us into a discussion of the way in which authorities try to control us. I mentioned the many instances in WWII in which seemingly sensible and decent people committed acts of atrocities simply because someone in a uniform told them to do so. It became a famous attempted defence in trials for justice.

A British pop psychologist, mentalist, and illusionist by the name of Derren Brown re-enacted one of the most famous experiments of all time, the Milgram Experiment, in a rather brilliant programme called The Heist. In this, he took six apparently normal members of the public and tried to condition them to perform a bank heist. The results were fairly astonishing (no spoilers if you haven't seen it).

Anyway, in the programme the Milgram experiment was re-enacted. A man in a white coat tells an apparently sensible member of the public to increase electric shocks to someone on the other side of a screen. And for the most part that is exactly what they do: to apparently lethal levels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Why do people do this? Why do they blindly follow? Because they're told to by people in authority.

Poppy the hairdresser (she's natal female) and I applied this to the UK Supreme Court ruling. And we both agreed that in so far as we are able, the best possible outcome is to get on and live our lives.

For sure, there are serious issues here such as legal documentation and what happens on hospital wards but maybe the best approach is to ignore the men butch women in white coats. Take no notice of them. Live your life as an independent woman. Be free.

I'm not making light of things. I'm suggesting that when the law is an ass it should be treated with the contempt it deserves. And ignored.

xx

Quote from: Tills on May 28, 2025, 10:06:22 AMI'm not making light of things. I'm suggesting that when the law is an ass it should be treated with the contempt it deserves. And ignored.

This is what happened with Section 28 and it ended with Cameron having to stand up and apologise to the nation for passing a law that had no grassroots support, so I'm onside with your approach!