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why do christians say that every human being is a sinner?

Started by Natasha, May 01, 2008, 02:47:46 PM

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RebeccaFog

nearly what I was thinking except that I had forgotten to think.
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Kate Thomas

 why do christians say that every human being is a sinner?

Guilt

How can you ask forgivness if you are not guilty of sin??
"But who is that on the other side of you?"
T.S. Eliot
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Laura Eva B

Quote from: Rebis on May 01, 2008, 08:00:40 PM
I'm fine with my ignorance.  I'm perfectly happy with it.  No one can know everything.  The things I don't know are known by someone else.      :)
So why argue in an issue (religion) that is so contentious even in this forum ??

Laura x

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Jaimey

My understanding of it growing up was that every human is a sinner because only god is perfect.  That's not to say that being a sinner makes you wicked, it makes you human. 

Well, if you believe in sin.  I don't really.  My main problem with Christianity is other Christians, and not all of them, but the loud ones ;).  Actually, I just watched a film called Hell House that frankly, made me want to stab people.  There was a Judgment House in my hometown, but (thank goodness), I never went.  I think it's all about how you view sin.  These people (in the movie) consider sin as something that sends you to hell, which basically means that you are expected to be perfect and anyone who sins and doesn't ask Jesus to save and forgive them goes to hell.  In the church I grew up in, we were taught that humans cannot be perfect.  That didn't mean that it was okay to go out and sin, but if you do sin, your only human and you've already been forgiven.  It's just perspective, really...and how literally you take the bible.  You know, if Adam and Eve were real people or if the story is a metaphor.  I find that the Christians that I think this thread started about (we all know who they are) take the bible literally.  There is no room for interpretation or doubt.  In churches like the one I grew up in, doubt and interpretation were essential to faith.  If you don't doubt, how can you have faith, you know? 

I always find it odd that the "christians" who say "god hates queers" and tell us all that we're going to hell and all that other crap, who are so self righteous don't seem to remember that it was the loud self righteous Pharisees that Jesus had so many problems with.  Is it better to pray loudly and tell people how much you tithe or to do it in private and keep your donations to yourself?   A lot of it has to do with which parts of the bible your religious studies focus on.  My church focused on the gospels while the hellfire and brimstone churches focus on the old testament and the epistles (and take every statement literally instead of in context or as an example/parable).

But that's just my two cents...

Posted on: May 01, 2008, 08:34:51 PM
Quote from: Laura Eva B on May 01, 2008, 08:25:37 PM
Quote from: Rebis on May 01, 2008, 08:00:40 PM
I'm fine with my ignorance.  I'm perfectly happy with it.  No one can know everything.  The things I don't know are known by someone else.      :)
So why argue in an issue (religion) that is so contentious even in this forum ??

Laura x



Because it's fun.  :laugh:
If curiosity really killed the cat, I'd already be dead. :laugh:

"How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and the strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these." GWC
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CassandraR

Quote from: lisagurl on May 01, 2008, 08:06:30 PM
Objectively there is not a right or wrong. Morals are subjective. Morals change with culture and time so they are a moving target of the society. Why is sin different in different times and different parts of the world among different people.

I disagree. Anything that reduces the utility, efficiency or longevity of the human race in general is objectively wrong because it reduces our potential.
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RebeccaFog

Quote from: Laura Eva B on May 01, 2008, 08:25:37 PM
Quote from: Rebis on May 01, 2008, 08:00:40 PM
I'm fine with my ignorance.  I'm perfectly happy with it.  No one can know everything.  The things I don't know are known by someone else.      :)
So why argue in an issue (religion) that is so contentious even in this forum ??

Laura x
I'm not arguing.  I'm trying to explain my feelings.  Not well, however.

'sides.  This thread is in the philosophy forum, which means that every point of view is valid.
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RebeccaFog

Your point of view is valid.  Your point of view does not invalidate other points of view.
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Jaimey

Quote from: CassandraR on May 01, 2008, 08:48:34 PM
Quote from: lisagurl on May 01, 2008, 08:06:30 PM
Objectively there is not a right or wrong. Morals are subjective. Morals change with culture and time so they are a moving target of the society. Why is sin different in different times and different parts of the world among different people.

I disagree. Anything that reduces the utility, efficiency or longevity of the human race in general is objectively wrong because it reduces our potential.

I'm not sure the two of you are talking about the same thing.  I think by morals, lisagurl is referring to what social behaviors are acceptable.  Homosexuality and ->-bleeped-<-, for example.  Some cultures embraced these things, others condemned them.  In some cases, like with Christianity, some accept and others condemn within the same belief system (theoretically...they are actually quite different in even basic philosophies and beliefs).

As far as reducing utility, efficiency and longevity of the human race...I have to be honest, I have no idea what you're talking about.  I mean, things like murder are always wrong.  Killing someone (or a whole group of people) certainly reduces the longevity, efficiency, and utility of the victims (and possibly society, where war is concerned).  But as for other things that are considered in the realm of "morality"...I don't know what you mean.

Posted on: May 01, 2008, 09:26:56 PM
Quote from: Rebis on May 01, 2008, 09:24:39 PM
Your point of view is valid.  Your point of view does not invalidate other points of view.

Exactly.  If we could only get the rest of the world to understand this.
If curiosity really killed the cat, I'd already be dead. :laugh:

"How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and the strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these." GWC
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RebeccaFog

I have it.  I have the answer to the question
Quotewhy do christians say that every human being is a sinner?
It's so simple.  Someone misspelled the word 'winner'.  Or it could have been the word 'dinner'.  Either way.  I don't think there is such a word as 'sinner' in any existing language on the planet jupiter.

Every human being is a dinner.

Consider it corrected.
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Jaimey

If curiosity really killed the cat, I'd already be dead. :laugh:

"How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and the strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these." GWC
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CassandraR

Here is an example of that idea I wrote for another forum a few days ago. I felt pretty good about it. The topic is how gay marriage increases the quality of life within a community. I think my reasoning is sound but if not then correct me! :)

People must form attachments to each other to increase their longevity, utility and efficiency. A single human can accomplish little and so they must group together. The traditional grouping is male to female but some people must group with their own sex. Community is dependent on these grouping units, whether they are temporary or permanent. To maximize quality of life a person must interact with the community. Being unable to form a grouping unit with another person of the same sex prevents some people from interacting effectively with their community. Therefore they can not reach the same standard in the quality of life value and so are substandard to those that can.

Effective communities are those that allow for increased quality of life for all of its members. If a large section of a community has reduced quality of life then it brings down the average for everyone. So we must put everyone on the same level in order to optimize the quality of life value.

The same sort of thing could be applied to transsexualism. The human body and mind needs to function correctly for the person to be able to take part in the community and the resources necessary to make the person function correctly are fairly small in our society so its important for it to be done.
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RebeccaFog

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RebeccaFog

Quote from: redfish on May 01, 2008, 09:42:43 PM
Quote from: Rebis on May 01, 2008, 09:24:39 PM
Your point of view is valid.  Your point of view does not invalidate other points of view.
Ahhh you have foiled my attempt at being a smart-ass D:
Only because you are a sinner, I mean, dinner.
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CassandraR

I know I would be a sugary snack because I am bouncy and hyper! And cute! All sugary snacks are cute!
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Rowan_Danielle

Quote from: redfish the posthuman on May 01, 2008, 09:47:33 PM
Quote from: Rebis on May 01, 2008, 09:44:09 PM
Quote from: redfish on May 01, 2008, 09:42:43 PM
Quote from: Rebis on May 01, 2008, 09:24:39 PM
Your point of view is valid.  Your point of view does not invalidate other points of view.
Ahhh you have foiled my attempt at being a smart-ass D:
Only because you are a sinner, I mean, dinner.
I wonder what my nutritional facts are

You have all the nutrients necessary to sustain at least one human life.

Unfortunately, as far as cannibals are concerned, you may be infected with things that would be unhealthy for them, even if the effect on you is minimal.

Posted on: May 08, 2008, 05:00:32 PM
Quote from: Natasha on May 01, 2008, 02:47:46 PM
that is not true. i think that christianity doesn't have enough trust in the power of goodness. labeling every person a sinner is the same as saying that wickedness is an innate trait, and i strongly disagree with that notion.


To put everybody in the same boat, so to speak.  It allows you to take down the 'Holier than thou' types with a simple question.
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Alyssa M.

Quote from: Rebis on May 01, 2008, 09:44:09 PM
Quote from: redfish on May 01, 2008, 09:42:43 PM
Ahhh you have foiled my attempt at being a smart-ass D:
Only because you are a sinner, I mean, dinner.

Hmmm... redfish .... fish ... ichthus ... Iesous CHristos THeou Uios Soter ...

Wir essen und leben wohl / in rechten Osterfladen!

BVW4, Mvt. 8. I <3 JSB. :P

(Hey, it is a thread about Christianity...)
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another.

   - Anatole France
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