Maybe this should be posted in Bathroom News, but it's not a legal issue. Many times I've attended CD, Trans social events, gals out in public with supportive SO's or spouses. Usually just a fun night out, dressing up, and other wives to meet with.
 Till last meeting. While answering natures call, someone in the stall next me came in and peed standing up.
For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would go through the bother to dress as female and pee as a man. In the woman's washroom! Even though I was done, I wouldn't leave the stall till I heard the main door shut. Quite often, I've shared the facilities with Cd's. Although I really 'know', it's part of accepting their desires. Do your business, wash hands and check make up. All part of being a woman. But to announce yourself as male by standing up to pee is an intrusion on the privacy of all women.

 Eileen

I applaud your support for your cross-dressing SO, Eileen. And do not doubt your mortification at the 'washroom incident.' Ironically, one of my (many) ex-wives stood up to urinate in public restrooms. She was terrified of whatever someone else might have left behind on the toilet seat. As Donald Rumsfeld famously said, "Gender is messy." I'm old. Maybe he was talking about something else, but gender is messy. I present male when I'm in public, but I sit down to urinate. Nothing to do with gender identity, but prostate health. I hope I'm not offending any of the 'real' males when I do.

Thanks Mrs. Oliphant.
 My husband usually sits while at home, it's a lot less messy. He also had some medical issues some time back, using the stall instead of a urinal was less stressful Don't sit in the urinal.
Public washrooms are disgusting, therefore many women hover. A tricky maneuver if there is nothing to hold on to.
Careful to not fill your panties.

Quote from: Mrs. Oliphant on June 13, 2025, 09:07:33 PMI present male when I'm in public, but I sit down to urinate. Nothing to do with gender identity, but prostate health. I hope I'm not offending any of the 'real' males when I do.

There was a fun survey recently and about half of German men sit down to pee if they get the chance. It's a common behaviour but guess what, standing to pee is heavily scripted. Best thing to do with the script is flush it away with everything else

Quote from: Eileen on June 14, 2025, 07:23:43 AMPublic washrooms are disgusting, therefore many women hover. A tricky maneuver if there is nothing to hold on to.

A friend of ours runs a museum in the boonies in Canada and she had us helpless over tales of how many broken toilet seats they get. It took em ages to discover it was because some women were standing on the seats and squatting down. Until the penny dropped they couldn't work out why they kept finding footprints on the plastic!

Maybe they need to retrofit the ladies room for some squatting toilets like they have in Japan?

Quote from: Maid Marion on June 14, 2025, 08:34:27 AMMaybe they need to retrofit the ladies room for some squatting toilets like they have in Japan?

This may well be it. Mind, I have another friend who ran a guest house and they say the creative possibilities that exist for wrecking toilets are limitless

 In many cultures, squatting over a hole in the ground is common. So, standing on a toilet seems reasonable.
But let's not get off subject here. My Sweetie does not want to be accepted as CD in public, she wants to be assumed as a woman. Not all, but most CD's want to pass as a woman. As a genetic woman, I'm sure I've been oblivious to the true nature of many women I've encountered all my life, because they behave as women.

 As mentioned before, this was a CD and spouse event. I knew the gals in the ladies room were men dressed as women. I've only met these people as women, so it's easy to accept them as women. Once even helped a girl who had the back of her skirt tucked into her pantyhose!

 Though I barely understand the desire for a man to present as female, it's more than the clothing. Affecting the mannerisms of femineity completes the experience.
 Except for Mrs. Oliphant's ex (must have made a mess, how does a woman aim?) woman do not pee in public toilets standing up. It spoils the whole illusion. That person, that night, announced that he is a man peeing in the woman's washroom. It's just wrong.

 Eileen

Quote from: Eileen on Yesterday at 08:35:00 AMThough I barely understand the desire for a man to present as female, it's more than the clothing. Affecting the mannerisms of femineity completes the experience.

QuoteExcept for Mrs. Oliphant's ex (must have made a mess, how does a woman aim?) woman do not pee in public toilets standing up. It spoils the whole illusion. That person, that night, announced that he is a man peeing in the woman's washroom.

QuoteIt's just wrong.

Hi Eileen,

Thank you for sharing your perspective.

I just wanted to gently offer a different view.

I don't see crossdressing or gender expression as an "illusion."

For many, it's a meaningful and authentic way to express themselves, and sometimes even part of a deeper journey with gender identity. Referring to it as an illusion can unintentionally dismiss the reality and diversity of people's experiences.

I also feel that focusing on how someone uses the bathroom, such as whether they stand or sit, can cross into personal territory.

In my opinion those behaviors often reflect someone's physical needs more than their identity and may not be a fair measure of who they are.


~ Lilis 🫂

Quote from: Eileen on Yesterday at 08:35:00 AMExcept for Mrs. Oliphant's ex (must have made a mess, how does a woman aim?) woman do not pee in public toilets standing up. It spoils the whole illusion. That person, that night, announced that he is a man peeing in the woman's washroom. It's just wrong.

You've made me think, Eileen! You know, I worked for 25 years in a practice with mixed toilets and half the time it was a complete surprise who was in the cubicle next to me when they came out!

I think the word she meant was not "illusion" but "immersion". That was how I understood it.

Sometimes it is simply better to use a private, one person bathroom when out, for numerous reasons.

Quote from: Lori Dee on Yesterday at 03:05:13 PMI think the word she meant was not "illusion" but "immersion". That was how I understood it.

That's a thoughtful way to put it, Lori.

'Immersion" definitely captures what many people are seeking, a way to feel fully themselves in the moment.

I appreciate that lens. 💓


~ Lilis 🫂

Quote from: TanyaG on Yesterday at 03:04:17 PMYou've made me think, Eileen! You know, I worked for 25 years in a practice with mixed toilets and half the time it was a complete surprise who was in the cubicle next to me when they came out!

Hahaha, I love this, Tanya, your story made me smile.

Yeah, sometimes we never really know who's next to us in those moments, and maybe we don't need to.


~ Lilis 💓🌷

Quote from: Eileen on Yesterday at 08:35:00 AMExcept for Mrs. Oliphant's ex (must have made a mess, how does a woman aim?) woman do not pee in public toilets standing up

My ex and all the women who left footprints on the toilet seats in Germany (or wherever according to Tanya). I confess, Eileen, I never observed my wife in the midst of this particular behavior, I merely too her at her word. But, in my experience, I have never seen a 'we aim to please..." sign in a woman's restroom. I understand some of what you're experiencing. When I told my sister a few weeks ago I had an appointment to begin hormone replacement therapy, she begged me to wait until my next life to become a 'real' woman. And she's one of my few supporters outside Susan's.

Quote from: Mrs. Oliphant on Yesterday at 04:12:25 PMWhen I told my sister a few weeks ago I had an appointment to begin hormone replacement therapy, she begged me to wait until my next life to become a 'real' woman.

I would argue that you already are a woman. The HRT is to replace the hormones that your body is not producing on its own.

Quote from: Lori Dee on Yesterday at 04:15:06 PMI would argue that you already are a woman.

Thanks, Lori. Your words meant much to me. And I would offer the same argument. My sister, like Eileen and so many others on the outside looking in have great difficulty identifying with, well, our asserted identity. I am more than willing to meet them more than halfway as long as they're willing to meet me anywhere at all. Again, thanks so much.

 I fully appreciate the opinions of others who are living a life I'll never truly know about. I mean the inner feelings or trauma felt over a life time of being told there's something wrong with you. There are female attributes that need to be expressed, for some, just a little while now and then. As do my Sweetie and some of her girlfriends.
 Yes, immersed in their female personality, the illusion I speak of is how the public sees you. In this area, there are few facilities other than male or female. Choose one. I just believe that dressed as a woman, one should behave as a woman. There are no physical needs that would prevent a man dressed as female to sit to pee, any more than any other woman. What about big potty, #2. Bet he sits for that.

 I understand that many responses are all too willing to make excuses for every possibility. It's incidents like this that lead to bathroom laws that are discriminatory and impossible to enforce. The solution is simple, when dressed as a woman, act like a woman. Sit down to pee. Women do not want a man in their washroom.

 Eileen

Quote from: Eileen on Yesterday at 06:07:48 PMI fully appreciate the opinions of others who are living a life I'll never truly know about. I mean the inner feelings or trauma felt over a life time of being told there's something wrong with you. There are female attributes that need to be expressed, for some, just a little while now and then. As do my Sweetie and some of her girlfriends.
 Yes, immersed in their female personality, the illusion I speak of is how the public sees you. In this area, there are few facilities other than male or female. Choose one. I just believe that dressed as a woman, one should behave as a woman. There are no physical needs that would prevent a man dressed as female to sit to pee, any more than any other woman. What about big potty, #2. Bet he sits for that.

 I understand that many responses are all too willing to make excuses for every possibility. It's incidents like this that lead to bathroom laws that are discriminatory and impossible to enforce. The solution is simple, when dressed as a woman, act like a woman. Sit down to pee. Women do not want a man in their washroom.

 Eileen

Eileen, I understand you're speaking from your experience as a supportive partner, and I appreciate that.

That said, framing someone's gender expression as a performance that must align with public expectations can be deeply harmful to those of us living this truth every day.

Trans and gender-diverse people do not owe anyone a particular way of moving, dressing, or using the restroom in order to be respected.

I want to be clear!

I dismiss and disapprove of cisnormative, rigid views that dictate how a woman "should" behave based on outdated, binary standards.

Gender is not defined by how someone uses the bathroom, and suggesting otherwise contributes to the very narratives that have historically led to the exclusion, policing, and even violence against trans and gender-nonconforming individuals.

I hope we can move toward deeper empathy and understanding, even when our experiences differ.

~ Lilis 🫂

This is a tough one.  I get that what happens behind the closed stall door next to me is not my business, and I should not lay a performance trip on that person, as long as they don't pee on the seat, or at least wipe it up if they do.

But I do understand the discomfort that Eileen described.  It would make me uncomfortable if someone was standing to pee in the women's washroom.  I think that, for me, the discomfort centres around inflaming the latent transphobia in other people who might be there.

Of course, it would be a non-issue if bathroom stalls had proper walls and doors.