I'm not sure where to post this so I'll try it here and mods please feel free to relocate it

I'm also going to tread hyper-carefully for reasons which will be clear and all identifiable details have been completely changed.

I have a friend in her 50's who transitioned male to female twenty years ago. She relocated and now lives in the north-east of England where she settled in total stealth mode. She has a female partner who knows her past but no one else around her does. Indeed, only a small handful of people in the world know that she was born into the wrong, male, body.

So far so good.

She has fallen in with a group of mostly lesbian friends. She's very active with them, doing masses of social things and holidaying with them sometimes on a one-to-one and pretty intense basis. Great you might think. Except that a number of them are trans-exclusionary and vociferously so. TERFs in other words. Because she's in such a stealth existence my friend says nothing. No challenge. Nothing. She has a son but when he visits her he is not hers but the son of a relative.

The hardest thing for me to observe is that this seems to be changing her character. Like them she has now become extreme anti-migrant: exclusionary to other groups of people. She's become a supporter of Nigel Farage's Reform Party - the UK's Trumpian equivalent. It's almost as if the extreme stealth mode has led her to deny her own journey, or even worse other people on that journey.

I know the phenomenon of how the persecuted can become the persecutor but I hadn't expected to see this in one of our own number.

I like her but there's something jarring. I needed to share my thoughts because it has really shaken me up, to the point of even questioning my own journey.

xx

That must really  suck to hate a group of people  (migrants ) so much  you're prepared to  associate  and vote for people who would deprive you of your  rights go against your interest. 
F them they deserve  everything  they are going  to  get.

Hi Tills

For the sake of this discussion, although I do not usually use the word "stealth," I will use it here to simplify the language.

I have been in stealth, or in the closet, for my whole life.  The only people who know about me are two government departments (tax and immigration), a few doctors from the past and a couple more from the past two years.  My family also knows and accepts me unconditionally.  Had they not, I would have disappeared forever.

That is how strong I feel about this issue.  I left my family initially so they would not suffer the repercussions of what I was doing and to live my life in stealth for the rest of my life.  Should anything change in that regard, I will pack my bags and leave.  That is how strongly I feel in the matter.

I have always believed that when people stay silent in the face of certain views, others will tend to assume that silence equals agreement.  Even a non-committal response will often be taken as tacit approval.  That's just human nature.  So if you remain quiet while others voice extreme opinions, particularly in political or ideological conversations, people will generally take you as one of their own.

I'm in a somewhat similar situation.  I belong to a group where the general tone is strong opposition to both Trump and Farage.  Yet some of their policies do align with how I believe things should be.  They are by no means perfect and I recognise that without hesitation.

For instance, Trump's stance on transgender issues is absolutely wrong in my view.  On the other hand, America should have a strong and independent energy policy and this is a position I tend to agree with.  It has nothing to do with the individual and everything to do with practical outcomes.

But I'm not going to argue the point with them.  It would be pointless and I have no interest in converting anyone or creating discomfort.  So I stay pretty much silent.

If I found myself in a group openly hostile to people like me, as you described with the TERFs, I would extract myself immediately.  Even though I live in extreme stealth, I would not remain in a hostile environment like that.  I would not speak up or argue, I would simply walk away.  I would also maintain total silence about my past medical history.  That part of me remains private and I'm committed to keeping it that way.

As for your friend denying the existence of her son, that's a personal decision and one she must come to terms with in her own way.  It is not something I would ever consider, but it isn't my place to judge her either.

Remaining in a toxic environment only harms your own well-being.  No political or social allegiance is worth compromising your safety, stability, or sanity.  I would move on rather than stay in a situation where I felt either threatened or stifled.

As to why I remain in extreme stealth: it's very simple.  I'm not transgender or any other label.  I am female.  Nothing more and nothing less.  That's the life I live and that's how I see myself.

How you continue your own path in response to your friend's choices is entirely yours to make. 

But from where I stand, being clear on who you are and what you believe is what matters most.  For me, that means holding firm to my privacy and peace, no matter the setting or the views around me.  I will never compromise that and I will always be prepared to walk away from any situation that threatens it.

It's understandable that you feel shaken, but her actions do not invalidate your journey.  You are not her and her path does not define yours.

It is not worth raising the issue with her, as there are too many interwoven personal, social and ideological factors at play.  Her commitment to deep stealth, her alignment with exclusionary groups and the risk of exposing yourself in the process all make such a conversation unwise. 

Attempting to challenge her views or revisit her past may provoke defensiveness, denial, or harm your own sense of safety and stability.  While it is painful to watch someone seemingly deny their history or adopt positions that contradict their origins, her path is ultimately her own to walk.

You will know what to do in the future should you ever come across a similar situation.  You have already demonstrated clarity, conviction and strength in how you have chosen to live your life.  Those qualities will guide you, if and when the time comes.

Best Wishes Always
Sarah B
Global Moderator
@Tills

Quote from: Tills on July 29, 2025, 11:45:05 PMI'm not sure where to post this so I'll try it here and mods please feel free to relocate it

I'm also going to tread hyper-carefully for reasons which will be clear and all identifiable details have been completely changed.

I have a friend in her 50's who transitioned male to female twenty years ago. She relocated and now lives in the north-east of England where she settled in total stealth mode. She has a female partner who knows her past but no one else around her does. Indeed, only a small handful of people in the world know that she was born into the wrong, male, body.

So far so good.

She has fallen in with a group of mostly lesbian friends. She's very active with them, doing masses of social things and holidaying with them sometimes on a one-to-one and pretty intense basis. Great you might think. Except that a number of them are trans-exclusionary and vociferously so. TERFs in other words. Because she's in such a stealth existence my friend says nothing. No challenge. Nothing. She has a son but when he visits her he is not hers but the son of a relative.

The hardest thing for me to observe is that this seems to be changing her character. Like them she has now become extreme anti-migrant: exclusionary to other groups of people. She's become a supporter of Nigel Farage's Reform Party - the UK's Trumpian equivalent. It's almost as if the extreme stealth mode has led her to deny her own journey, or even worse other people on that journey.

I know the phenomenon of how the persecuted can become the persecutor but I hadn't expected to see this in one of our own number.

I like her but there's something jarring. I needed to share my thoughts because it has really shaken me up, to the point of even questioning my own journey.

xx

Ah, the anti-trans trans person. I've had the pleasure of inviting loads of them to not bless this site with their presence. 

I'm happy you made it this far without the experience, and  wish that your streak hadn't come to an end.

Hugs, Devlyn

This is one of the most unusual situations that I have ever seen.

Perhaps she wants to keep her past so secret she is willing to do whatever is needed to keep her transition unsuspected.  I am unsure though why she would wish to continue associate with this group of women, at least those who are TERF.

I have never heard of an anti-trans trans person.  I think she should rethink her participation with this group.  She might be lonely and any socialization is better than simply staying home with her partner. 

Shaking my head on this one.


Chrissy

It's "Pick Me Syndrome"...trans edition.

Quote from: Devlyn on Yesterday at 10:06:15 AMIt's "Pick Me Syndrome"...trans edition.

 I never heard of that syndrome.  I will look it up this evening.


 

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on Yesterday at 09:57:30 AMThis is one of the most unusual situations that I have ever seen.

Perhaps she wants to keep her past so secret she is willing to do whatever is needed to keep her transition unsuspected.  I am unsure though why she would wish to continue associate with this group of women, at least those who are TERF.

Shaking my head on this one.

Chrissy

Quote from: Sarah B on Yesterday at 04:07:13 AMIf I found myself in a group openly hostile to people like me, as you described with the TERFs, I would extract myself immediately.  Even though I live in extreme stealth, I would not remain in a hostile environment like that.  I would not speak up or argue, I would simply walk away.  I would also maintain total silence about my past medical history.  That part of me remains private and I'm committed to keeping it that way.

I think you have both hit the nail on the head. That's the part that jars with me. It's not the part about keeping your own journey to yourself. I might do the same thing when I emigrate to Ireland.

It's falling in with a group of people who deny your own truth so that you almost become, as @Devlyn so memorably puts it, an anti-trans trans!!!

I couldn't live with myself in that situation. It would eat me up. But it has also really shaken me to witness it. I'm one of those still on the path to finding my truth and it was pretty unsettling.

xx

Quote from: Sarah B on Yesterday at 04:07:13 AMI have always believed that when people stay silent in the face of certain views, others will tend to assume that silence equals agreement.  Even a non-committal response will often be taken as tacit approval.  That's just human nature.  So if you remain quiet while others voice extreme opinions, particularly in political or ideological conversations, people will generally take you as one of their own.

I have also experienced the opposite. While in the military, there were guys who would be constantly "gay-bashing". Not just verbally, but literally with physical attacks. My question to them was, "Why do you care so much about what they do behind closed doors?"

Because I questioned them, they immediately assumed that I was "one of them", and it wasn't long after that that I was attacked, leaving me with a permanent spine injury.

It is as @Devlyn and @KathyLauren have said, it is an "Us" vs "Them" mindset and "bigots gonna bigot".

No amount of education will change their minds. But as society in general becomes more open and accepting, it will be the bigots who will become stealth, keeping their opinions to themselves.

Maybe. Someday.

QuoteThis is one of the most unusual situations that I have ever seen.

Perhaps she wants to keep her past so secret she is willing to do whatever is needed to keep her transition unsuspected.  I am unsure though why she would wish to continue associate with this group of women, at least those who are TERF.

I have never heard of an anti-trans trans person.  I think she should rethink her participation with this group.  She might be lonely and any socialization is better than simply staying home with her partner. 

Shaking my head on this one.


Chrissy

Debbie Hayton  is the UK's anti trans trans woman.  Often spouting  off in right wing rags sucking up to JK Rowling. TERFs still hate her as do many of the trans community .

There are lots of goofiness in this world.  Ugh.


Chrissy

I don't think I could ever become anti-trans for any reason. I see people as spirits, and I believe strongly in human rights. It isn't about race, gender, or neck tattoos. Why not just leave people alone? It is no one's business what they do with their lives.

To quote the late Pope Francis, "Who am I to judge?"