This was a post I made a little bit ago, but it was accidently deleted, as you all may know. Anyway, I asked in the post if there are varying degrees of transgender? In other words, could someone whose female biologically feel very obviously male, but not feel a strong need to live as male, or at very least be able to tolerate being female?

I very obviously feel (and wish) I were male, but I CAN live as female if need be.



-Merrick

I don't think it is a matter of degrees, more about variations of the same thing. So I don't think you can be 'more transgendered' than someone else - but you can be transgendered in different ways. I believe it is all to do with the brain and the brain is a complicated beast containing lots of interacting systems with lots of ways of doing (and coping with) the same thing.

Definitly dysphoria and other stuff seems to have varying levels of intensity for different people. 

What you feel is just as valid as the way anyone else feels.

Whatever the causes of transgender identity of whatever flavor, they surely must come in different degrees; so the same surely is true with their effects. I have a hard time imagining how it could be otherwise.

Everything comes in degrees, why should this be any different?

Depends on what you mean by 'degrees'.  Sometimes using that term can lead to a '->-bleeped-<-r than thou' contest, so it may be safer to think of it as variations like Nick did.

But yes, the gender/sex complex is a complex thing, and different people feel bad about different aspects of it. My personal belief is that this is the real nature vs. nurture thing: having GID in the first place is clearly inborn, but how it manifests has much to do with one's history and upbringing.

Also, what you describe makes perfect sense to me (except for the FtM vs. MtF bit). I'm reasonably happy to live the life I do, the problem is just living it in the anatomical sex I have.

  Nfr

I think there are degrees both within transgender generally, and within an individual's stages of ->-bleeped-<- (?). For instance, you could have people who are bigendered (like me, I think) and swing between feeling male and female, and then you could have people who are male-bodied but feel exclusively female, or female only some of the time, or female in certain respects but mostly male, or vice versa... And then you could have gradations within an individual's transgender feeling (i.e. how transgendered they are feeling at any particular time. For example, I seem to go from feeling exclusively male in a female body to half-and-half, to almost entirely female, to completely genderless, then back again ). So yes, I think it's a valid question, Merrick.

Quote'->-bleeped-<-r than thou'

Does "->-bleeped-<-" refer to transsexual, transgendered, or...? I've never been able to get that straight... But seriously, it's like calling someone "trans", I never really know what the "trans" is referring to.

And I seem to feel the same way as you, Merrick - "I very obviously feel (and wish) I were male, but I CAN live as female if need be."

Lutin

Quote from: Merrick-Scott on May 11, 2008, 05:40:42 PM
This was a post I made a little bit ago, but it was accidently deleted, as you all may know. Anyway, I asked in the post if there are varying degrees of transgender? In other words, could someone whose female biologically feel very obviously male, but not feel a strong need to live as male, or at very least be able to tolerate being female?

I very obviously feel (and wish) I were male, but I CAN live as female if need be.

Merrick

I think there are varying degrees. I'd rather be female, however I deal with having a male body. I consider myself androgyne, outside the gender binary. I don't really like being considered male but people see what they want to see. Some see me as birth gender, others see me as female, I think people who know me well just see me as me.

Zythyra

Quote from: Lutin on May 12, 2008, 04:10:17 AM

Quote'->-bleeped-<-r than thou'

Does "->-bleeped-<-" refer to transsexual, transgendered, or...?

What I meant here was the flame wars we occasionally get about what makes one a true transsexual, as opposed to the rest of us rabble. I think Rachael coined the term a couple of such debates ago, but my memory has been wrong every once in a while.

  Nfr

there is a wide range in the gender spectrum as ive found out recently. on this site if your in the middle that you probably fit in the androgyne category
I see myself as somewhere between androgyne & female

Well of course there are varying degrees.  For me it varies in intensity even between days.  I know that if I chart it, this has varied over the years as well.

Kristi

Good point, Kristi.

It's certainly been like that for me, with the variation over the years showing a pretty clear upward trend. I've heard this is the general rule.

It varies with the seasons too. Each time the seasons change (it doesn't matter which season, just the change) it's worse, and it's generally worse in the winter, though I really don't know why. It's usually worse when I'm not depressed (because, I think, depression masks the gender dysphoria), but in the winter I'm usually more depressed. Go figure.

in the winter I'm usually more depressed. Go figure.

That's a real deal, Seasonal affective disorder, caused by not getting enough sun in the winter months. 

For me, it is mostly a matter of degree of preference. I can be relatively happy living in a male body but feel my life would be enhanced in many ways in a female body. However, I fear the consequences of making such a change on family, career, friends, etc.

Quote from: tekla on May 12, 2008, 12:53:15 PM
in the winter I'm usually more depressed. Go figure.

That's a real deal, Seasonal affective disorder, caused by not getting enough sun in the winter months. 

Yes, that part's pretty clear to me. I try to get out as much as possible in the winter in order to fight it. It's generally effective, but it's a bit of a battle each winter.

The odd thing is the how gender dysphoria is stronger for me when I'm not depressed, but that both are stronger in the winter (on average), so there are two trends at odds with each other. (But I don't think it matters too much why -- it just seems a bit strange to me. Oh, well.)