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mixed body for mixed mind ???

Started by Kinkly, May 18, 2008, 08:45:00 PM

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Kinkly

I'm rather confused and scared.
I'm an androgyne - both male & female sometimes neither
why can't my body be as mixed as my mind?
I strongly dislike parts of my male body
I'd feel more comfortable in a body with a mix of parts
breasts and beard is my strongest want
Is there any one who can tell me of there journey toward this?
I've been told that it could be quite damaging emotionally because of the way other people will react to me
If i were to go through with it
thanks in advance
I don't want to be a man there from Mars
I'd Like to be a woman Venus looks beautiful
I'm enjoying living on Pluto, but it is a bit lonely
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Nero

Well, when all's said and done - I'll have a mixed body. After I chop my tits off and keep my cat.
It's not that I would've chosen it that way, it's just going to be the result.

There's surely a way to achieve you want. If you're on estrogen, just don't get electrolysis.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Kinkly

yes Nero I know thats how to do that. I'd Like to know what emotional issues ect.
I don't want to be a man there from Mars
I'd Like to be a woman Venus looks beautiful
I'm enjoying living on Pluto, but it is a bit lonely
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Caroline

Quote from: Kinkly on May 18, 2008, 08:45:00 PM
breasts and beard is my strongest want
Is there any one who can tell me of there journey toward this?
I've been told that it could be quite damaging emotionally because of the way other people will react to me
If i were to go through with it
thanks in advance

I've encountered someone online who has breasts and a beard, you wouldn't be the first.  I am in the opposite position, ridding my body of primary and secondary sexual characteristics.  I haven't had any issues yet but I live in a fairly accepting place and don't stand out as much as some.  You'd certainly need to be strong enough to deal with people's reactions towards you.  I guess if it's a viable path depends on the sort of person you are (or the sort of person you could become).  Finding the strength to present in a gender variant manner took me some time...

I don't think you'll find many people here who have followed a path like that.  Browsing youtube for videos on genderqueer (and maybe androgyne) issues would probably give you some useful insight. 
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RebeccaFog

sorry, Kink.

I got no answer for you.  I wish I could help.  If I see anything, I'll report back to you.

When did you get an okay to put the 'N' back in your name?  It looks better.



Rebis
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Shana A

Quote from: Kinkly on May 18, 2008, 08:45:00 PM
I'd feel more comfortable in a body with a mix of parts
breasts and beard is my strongest want

Many years ago I had a dream in which I saw my body as a mix of female (breasts, curves and long hair) and male (still had penis). This dream was a profound vision of who I am, both/neither. I haven't taken HRT though, due to concerns about long term negative effects. But that's what I'd have to do to have the multi-gendered body I envision... and sometimes I think it'd be nice to have a beard again too...

What keeps me from proceeding with this? Fear I suppose, the difficulty of being perceived as mixed gender in a transphobic world...

Zythyra
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Simone Louise

What size breasts do you want? I, like one other who frequents this forum, have experienced breast growth from taking finasteride (which I've been taking since November). Mine look like the illustrations of Stage II on other sites. There has also be fat deposited where the buttocks and thigh meet. At some point, I'd like to see the effect of an A cup bra. I have found people see what they expect to see. I've had several doctors and x-ray technicians examine me and say nothing (While examining me with a stethoscope, one doctor brushed against my nipple, and I almost asked him to do it again). Though I see nipples showing through a T-shirt, again no one else has noticed. But I have watched these things change and develop over time. And I feel their presence when I reach for something across my body. There has been no ache as described by others taking hormones. According to what I read online, only one in two hundred reports breast growth during the first year of taking finasteride. Perhaps other anti-androgens work more reliably.

The best feature of my buds is how the nipples feel when touched. Now, my wife and I can caress each others breasts simultaneously. As to that I will only say Wow! It's begun to cut into my sleep time.

S
Choose life.
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Kinkly

Quote from: Rebis on May 19, 2008, 01:17:28 PM
sorry, Kink.

I got no answer for you.  I wish I could help.  If I see anything, I'll report back to you.

When did you get an okay to put the 'N' back in your name?  It looks better.



Rebis

a little while ago I asked for someone to change my group to androgyne
when this was done something strange happened and i was put in the admin group
I messaged susan to get taken off admin next thing i new my name had changed she must have seen that her perceived idea of my name was different to mine. ;D
and the name is kinkly not kink
I don't want to be a man there from Mars
I'd Like to be a woman Venus looks beautiful
I'm enjoying living on Pluto, but it is a bit lonely
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Shana A

Quote from: Kinkly on May 19, 2008, 05:27:37 PM
I messaged susan to get taken off admin next thing i new my name had changed she must have seen that her perceived idea of my name was different to mine. ;D

It's easy enough to change it in your profile if you want to.

Z
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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RebeccaFog

Quote from: Simone Louise on May 19, 2008, 03:56:15 PM
What size breasts do you want? I, like one other who frequents this forum, have experienced breast growth from taking finasteride (which I've been taking since November). Mine look like the illustrations of Stage II on other sites. There has also be fat deposited where the buttocks and thigh meet. At some point, I'd like to see the effect of an A cup bra. I have found people see what they expect to see. I've had several doctors and x-ray technicians examine me and say nothing (While examining me with a stethoscope, one doctor brushed against my nipple, and I almost asked him to do it again). Though I see nipples showing through a T-shirt, again no one else has noticed. But I have watched these things change and develop over time. And I feel their presence when I reach for something across my body. There has been no ache as described by others taking hormones. According to what I read online, only one in two hundred reports breast growth during the first year of taking finasteride. Perhaps other anti-androgens work more reliably.

The best feature of my buds is how the nipples feel when touched. Now, my wife and I can caress each others breasts simultaneously. As to that I will only say Wow! It's begun to cut into my sleep time.

S
Hi Simone,

   Are you taking only anti-androgens?  Today I heard that they should be accompanied by Estrogen because (if I got this right), they block the production of hormones and people need some hormones.  Maybe some of your natural ones are still being produced.
   I don't know.  I hear different views on that a lot.  I'm with Z at this point except that beyond worrying about the side effects, I'm worried about having yet another med on my list.


Rebis

Posted on: May 19, 2008, 07:42:35 PM
Quote from: Kinkly on May 19, 2008, 05:27:37 PM
and the name is kinkly not kink
Sorry.  I thought was funny.   
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Kinkly

simone i don't realy know what size i want fairly small i think you mentioned yours were like something described o a website can i have a link
Quote from: Rebis on May 19, 2008, 07:44:47 PM

Sorry.  I thought was funny.   

thats okay Rebi

Posted on: 20-05-2008, 11:54:10
Quote from: Zythyra on May 19, 2008, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: Kinkly on May 18, 2008, 08:45:00 PM
I'd feel more comfortable in a body with a mix of parts
breasts and beard is my strongest want

Many years ago I had a dream in which I saw my body as a mix of female (breasts, curves and long hair) and male (still had penis). This dream was a profound vision of who I am, both/neither. I haven't taken HRT though, due to concerns about long term negative effects. But that's what I'd have to do to have the multi-gendered body I envision... and sometimes I think it'd be nice to have a beard again too...

What keeps me from proceeding with this? Fear I suppose, the difficulty of being perceived as mixed gender in a transphobic world...

Zythyra

Thats where i'm at i realy want to do this but I'm scared about what others will do to me
and worried that if I do then I will reduce the likelyness that I will ever find a woman who will Love me as me
I don't want to be a man there from Mars
I'd Like to be a woman Venus looks beautiful
I'm enjoying living on Pluto, but it is a bit lonely
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Shana A

Quote from: Kinkly on May 20, 2008, 02:59:05 AM
Thats where i'm at i realy want to do this but I'm scared about what others will do to me
and worried that if I do then I will reduce the likelyness that I will ever find a woman who will Love me as me

Not much we can do about the hatemongers out there, but I assure you there are people out there who will love you for the wonderful person you are. My partner of the past dozen years knew all about my gender mishegos before we got together, and in fact sie enjoys the freedom our relationship gives hir to explore and be whatever gender sie likes.  ;D

Zythyra
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Autumn

#12
Quote from: Rebis on May 19, 2008, 07:44:47 PM
Quote from: Simone Louise on May 19, 2008, 03:56:15 PM

   Are you taking only anti-androgens?  Today I heard that they should be accompanied by Estrogen because (if I got this right), they block the production of hormones and people need some hormones.  Maybe some of your natural ones are still being produced.
   I don't know.  I hear different views on that a lot.  I'm with Z at this point except that beyond worrying about the side effects, I'm worried about having yet another med on my list.

Sorry.  I thought was funny.   


Spiro is meant to be taken with estrogen, but as far as I've found finasteride and dutasteride should be safe to take alone. Finasteride is prescribed cosmetically.


If you buck social norms you will have reactions from people, that's how it goes. I personally find beards+femininity an incredibly jarring image, as do most people. Actually, the whole 'drag queen with obvious shadow' has been the cultural personification of transgendered people for a while now, heh. I feel incredibly self-conscious when I accidentally pass with people when I have stubble.

Obviously it's not really the place of any of us to tell anyone here how to live their life or their image, but certain things will definitely get reactions out of people. The other day my long nails and gemstone ring made a customer ask me if I was "trying to become a woman or something"; and I was even in full guy garb at the time. She was a nice, if incredibly odd lady, gave me some manicure tips, but it was definitely a bit of an off-guard moment. Actually, my ring, which is a very tasteful, demure setting, has caused more of a freaked out response from people than my clothes have, and it's rapidly approaching the reaction I get from my nails. Though mostly the nails are women going 'damnit, I'm jealous! no fair' and the ring is 'what the f---.' It's honestly surprising to me how much of a reaction the ring gets out of people, I didn't realize that "womens rings" were so exclusive.

Man in a dress, woman with a beard, guy with nails, men in certain colors, women with certain haircuts+secondary feature (short hair + glasses, or fat = androgyny), people are conditioned to react to things that are out of the norm. A lot of the conditioning is spitefulness. Some people are incredibly offended by actual androgynous features (which confuses me, but then people are hateful.) I don't really consider, say, breasts + beard androgynous myself, as men don't have breasts and women don't have beards*, yet they are defining characteristics. To me androgyny is a fine-grit blend. But that's just another side of the spectrum, really.


*I don't want to hear about it, I mean in normal circumstances.

Edit: I don't mean to come across as hateful or spiteful here, so my apologies if it sounded as such. I've been up all night and have a closing shift to look forward to. A lot of us know the feeling of being really confused. The readers of this board in particular frequently share your feelings of being split between man and woman. I myself feel either genderless or female, there's really nothing about my masculinity that I consider favorable, though I take advantage of the whole having a penis thing sometimes (work with what you have.) You really do have to do what makes you feel best for you, though temper it for ease and safety. Do note that hormones are a slippery slope and that if you begin them you probably won't want to pause or go back.

As for emotional damage, my above writings are kind of jaded. I've been feminizing my appearance and wearing androgynous womens' clothing for over a year now, I've accidentally passed plenty, been seen positively for it, been seen negatively for it, been complimented on my appearance (since I'm far better dressed than most men my age), confused the hell out of people, etc. I've had some moments of fear and shame. Nothing dangerous, thankfully, but I keep in mind there are things that I can and can't do.
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Simone Louise

Quote from: Rebis on May 19, 2008, 07:44:47 PM
Hi Simone,

   Are you taking only anti-androgens?  Today I heard that they should be accompanied by Estrogen because (if I got this right), they block the production of hormones and people need some hormones.  Maybe some of your natural ones are still being produced.
   I don't know.  I hear different views on that a lot.  I'm with Z at this point except that beyond worrying about the side effects, I'm worried about having yet another med on my list.


Rebis

Posted on: May 19, 2008, 07:42:35 PM

In my case, finasteride was prescribed to slow the growth of the prostate gland; it can also be prescribed to prevent hair loss from male pattern balding. In neither case is it prescribed with estrogen. It does not block the production of testosterone, but only its conversion to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). The adrenal gland in a man produces a low level of estrogen. Normally, DHT interferes with the estrogen, so with less DHT, estrogen can cause breast growth.

S

Posted on: May 20, 2008, 09:18:29 AM
Quote from: Kinkly on May 20, 2008, 02:59:05 AM
simone i don't realy know what size i want fairly small i think you mentioned yours were like something described o a website can i have a link

There are several links describing the stages of development; the one I had in mind is http://www.secondtype.com/breastdev.htm.

S
Choose life.
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RebeccaFog

Quote from: Autumn on May 20, 2008, 08:38:44 AM
I myself feel either genderless or female, there's really nothing about my masculinity that I consider favorable, though I take advantage of the whole having a penis thing sometimes (work with what you have.) You really do have to do what makes you feel best for you, though temper it for ease and safety.
How do you temper your penis?                :laugh:
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Pica Pica

Quote from: Rebis on May 20, 2008, 09:51:42 AM
Quote from: Autumn on May 20, 2008, 08:38:44 AM
I myself feel either genderless or female, there's really nothing about my masculinity that I consider favorable, though I take advantage of the whole having a penis thing sometimes (work with what you have.) You really do have to do what makes you feel best for you, though temper it for ease and safety.
How do you temper your penis?                :laugh:

with the end of a pencil
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Kinkly

I'm not totally a man I'm not totally a woman So I think I must be Weird.
some of the less personal reasons for beard & breasts...
when i trim down my beard too short I can't look myself in mirror long enough to brush teeth,
the only time that my bare chest isn't painful for me to see is when I have visible man boobs (not very often)& whenever i put on a dress to feel more comfortable I wish "I filled it out" a bit more, most of my body I'm Okay with but I don't know how i would survive without the beard I don't mind people looking at me strange, I enjoy it actually.  I'd rather someone say is that I'm weird or a freak then be called unique or "an individual"
I know seeing me in a form that I will be more comfortable with would be hard for some people including my parents
I don't want to be a man there from Mars
I'd Like to be a woman Venus looks beautiful
I'm enjoying living on Pluto, but it is a bit lonely
  •  

RebeccaFog

is it possible that you feel that way without a beard because, without one, you don't look female?  Like, it's easier to look at yourself if you can't see a face that you're unhappy with?


Just asking.
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Kinkly

Quote from: Rebis on May 20, 2008, 11:53:58 AM
is it possible that you feel that way without a beard because, without one, you don't look female?  Like, it's easier to look at yourself if you can't see a face that you're unhappy with?


Just asking.
that may be part of it but it is also the only part of my body that has ever had a complement and other things I'd rather not mention publicaly
I don't want to be a man there from Mars
I'd Like to be a woman Venus looks beautiful
I'm enjoying living on Pluto, but it is a bit lonely
  •  

Seshatneferw

 
Quote from: Simone Louise on May 20, 2008, 09:26:24 AM
In my case, finasteride was prescribed to slow the growth of the prostate gland; it can also be prescribed to prevent hair loss from male pattern balding. In neither case is it prescribed with estrogen. It does not block the production of testosterone, but only its conversion to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). The adrenal gland in a man produces a low level of estrogen. Normally, DHT interferes with the estrogen, so with less DHT, estrogen can cause breast growth.

Also, since the testosterone isn't getting converted to DHT some of it becomes oestrogen instead. Which, of course, does what oestrogen does.  :)
In my case, in seven months and with an overall weight loss of a couple of kilogrammes, from nothing to 38A. Small enough to not raise any eyebrows in a locker room, but recently I tried a bra, and even a completely unpadded one does make a difference. It's easy to understand why some men get seriously freaked out by this.

Quote from: Rebis on May 20, 2008, 09:51:42 AM
How do you temper your penis?                :laugh:

By heating it red-hot and then dipping it in a bucket of cold water. Some of the more masculine and superstitious practitioners prefer to use a virgin instead of the water, claiming that this results in a better temper.

  Nfr
Whoopee! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but it's a long one for me.
-- Pete Conrad, Apollo XII
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