Hey findingreason,

This is my first post on these forums.  I decided to register 'cause of this topic you started and the posts you've made in it.

I've been fighting chronic anxiety and depression my whole life.  You're the first person I've come across, in all my trans-research over the past several years, who just flat out described all the feelings and doubts I've been through myself in perfect detail.  A lot of people have similar experiences in their journeys, but your story just made me say "okay, this person is really hitting close to home, even as trans stories go."  The Mount Everest of Doubt is fantastic imagery - you really nailed it.  The cycle you go through with depression, and the way you go about analyzing all the clues from your childhood and teen years.  I fought the same battle for ages, and I started to find MY answers relatively recently.

Anyway, I have a few things to say that I hope will help you find your own perspective, get through the haze of depression and doubt, and find your answers.  Who knows?  First of all, the people suggesting a therapist are spot on.  But you already get that of course - just saying I agree also.  But in the meantime, I have some questions and ideas that helped me out a lot...

1) You mention that there have been times when you feel transition is the right path, and there have been times when the whole thing just doesn't seem real and you're full of doubt.  What I learned about myself is that depression pretty much makes me doubt everything in my life.  It just so happens that my gender identity is a major issue, so the doubt that comes with depression seems to affect that the most.  I learned that I can't trust the way I feel about things when I'm depressed.  I can't make plans based on that.  I have to trust the way I felt when I was feeling clear-headed and I was certain of something.  Asking myself these questions was helpful:

- Do you ever have times when you feel absolutely certain that transition is the right way to go?  Do you ever feel certain that you ARE female, even if that feeling doesn't last?  Do you ever feel certain that you are NOT male?

- Do you ever have times when you feel absolutely certain that you are not transgendered and transition is definitely not the way to go?  Do you ever feel certain that you ARE male?  Do you ever feel certain that you are NOT female?  Or is it more like you're not certain of anything, just massively doubting the things you WERE certain of?

Sometimes I'll go through periods where I start to wonder if I really am female, and I can't seem to see the answer to that question.  But I'll look at it from a different angle and ask "Am I a boy/man/guy/male?" and I come back with an authoritative "Oh hell no!"  Then I see that being afraid or depressed had been making it hard for me to be sure of myself.

I'm not saying I have the answers, by any means.  I can only have my own answers, and even then I only have some of them so far.  But if our experiences overlap in some ways, maybe the processes I went through can help you out a bit.

Let me also say that one of the things I came to believe along the way is this:  Being TG/TS doesn't necessarily have anything to do with having a "male" or "female" brain/personality/outlook/emotional response/role in society/etc.  But I guess depending on the person, it CAN have something to do with any of those things.  For me, it has to do with 2 major issues.  First - how people regard me.  I feel right when I'm out and about as a girl.  I don't feel that I should conform to a female stereotype, but I feel right struggling against the stereotype AS a girl.  I feel like the assumptions that people make about women, not the ones they make about men, should be the ones they make about me, even though they'll be wrong.  I feel like that's the angle from which I was meant to come at life.  I've always felt a bit awkward with the way people treat me as a man.  Even before I knew I was female, I knew there was something off about that.  Second - I feel at home, at peace, comfortable--I feel like myself--when I look in the mirror and see a woman.  When I look down and see a female body.  I just know it's right.  I'm not always certain how I feel about my male body.  Sometimes I hate it, sometimes I'm more neutral towards it.  But I make a good-looking guy, and yet it just doesn't feel like me - especially compared to how I feel about myself when I appear female.

I tortured myself for years analyzing the other issues.  Do I have a female brain?  Why do I like doing "guy" things - video games, computers, etc.  Why don't I like many "girl" things - shoe shopping, dresses, skirts, etc.

I realized finally that none of that matters for me.  I'm not a stereotypical girl.  And it makes sense that it took me so long to figure out I was trans if I'm so typically "boyish" in my personality and interests.

Anyway, I'm at work and it's time to end this post.  It's waaay long enough anyway, I'm sure.  I hope some of my tangents help you, or at least give you something to think about in your quest to help yourself.  Also, hi to everyone, since this is my first post ;)

Thank you all again for your replies!

The Dread Pirate Rita:

Quote1) You mention that there have been times when you feel transition is the right path, and there have been times when the whole thing just doesn't seem real and you're full of doubt.  What I learned about myself is that depression pretty much makes me doubt everything in my life.  It just so happens that my gender identity is a major issue, so the doubt that comes with depression seems to affect that the most.  I learned that I can't trust the way I feel about things when I'm depressed.  I can't make plans based on that.  I have to trust the way I felt when I was feeling clear-headed and I was certain of something.  Asking myself these questions was helpful:

Yes, definitely, I have been very depressed lately, and can't see straight in my mind. But I promised myself whenever I was out of depression and had my head attached, that I would still head for transition, because I knew it was right. But, it gets very difficult to do that and uphold to myself when I am depressed for longer periods of time (2-4 weeks or more).

Quote- Do you ever have times when you feel absolutely certain that transition is the right way to go?  Do you ever feel certain that you ARE female, even if that feeling doesn't last?  Do you ever feel certain that you are NOT male?

Yes, definitely. I can doubt them now, because it has been a while since I was sure. But yes, I have felt certain I am female before, and I can walk with confidence in public when I feel that way.

Quote- Do you ever have times when you feel absolutely certain that you are not transgendered and transition is definitely not the way to go?  Do you ever feel certain that you ARE male?  Do you ever feel certain that you are NOT female?  Or is it more like you're not certain of anything, just massively doubting the things you WERE certain of?

Sometimes I'll go through periods where I start to wonder if I really am female, and I can't seem to see the answer to that question.  But I'll look at it from a different angle and ask "Am I a boy/man/guy/male?" and I come back with an authoritative "Oh hell no!"  Then I see that being afraid or depressed had been making it hard for me to be sure of myself.

*raises hand* Yep, I have. And lately, I doubt the whole thing. When I feel like a "male" and even the slightest thought of being happy as being "male" causes me to freak out. It makes me doubt everything all over again. I don't like facing any of this, but to get ANYWHERE, I know I need to. It's like subconsciously I know I am female, but my conscious mind LOVES to say otherwise. So, asking myself consciously "Am I a boy/man/guy/male?" can cause a bit of a problem. I have said no, I have said yes (occasionally bitterly), I have been undecided. Conditioning to live as a male, maybe?

QuoteLet me also say that one of the things I came to believe along the way is this:  Being TG/TS doesn't necessarily have anything to do with having a "male" or "female" brain/personality/outlook/emotional response/role in society/etc.  But I guess depending on the person, it CAN have something to do with any of those things.  For me, it has to do with 2 major issues.  First - how people regard me.  I feel right when I'm out and about as a girl.  I don't feel that I should conform to a female stereotype, but I feel right struggling against the stereotype AS a girl.  I feel like the assumptions that people make about women, not the ones they make about men, should be the ones they make about me, even though they'll be wrong.  I feel like that's the angle from which I was meant to come at life.  I've always felt a bit awkward with the way people treat me as a man.  Even before I knew I was female, I knew there was something off about that.  Second - I feel at home, at peace, comfortable--I feel like myself--when I look in the mirror and see a woman.  When I look down and see a female body.  I just know it's right.  I'm not always certain how I feel about my male body.  Sometimes I hate it, sometimes I'm more neutral towards it.  But I make a good-looking guy, and yet it just doesn't feel like me - especially compared to how I feel about myself when I appear female.

I tortured myself for years analyzing the other issues.  Do I have a female brain?  Why do I like doing "guy" things - video games, computers, etc.  Why don't I like many "girl" things - shoe shopping, dresses, skirts, etc.

Yeah, I always felt guilty about having "guy" issues. I felt guilty when women complained of "women" issues, I was envious of them in a way I guess. I have always felt awkward since I was little (5-7 years old, don't remember when exactly), and I hadn't the faintest clue as to why. I have really only began confronting this whole mess in the past 2-3 months, and because I didn't think much of it before, it disturbs me. It's painful to face, that's for sure. Another problem is, I don't exactly "hate" the way I look, sometimes I do, I think. This causes more reasons for doubt. One time I began to look in the mirror and light angles made me look more "female", and as soon as it disappeared, I was upset. But, it seems distant now compared to the doubt.

This one nailed me too. Ugh, I think I am female, stuck with a freaking male body/brain. It bothers me to no end, when I react in "male" ways to things, and get hassled by women for it. Nature sure has a sick, twisted sense of humor, doesn't it?

Keep this in mind, as well:  It takes a long time to figure this stuff out from the point where you finally decide to confront it.  I wasn't able to admit to myself that I might be transgendered until I was 22.  I'm 27 now, and still just getting things in order to look at starting HRT.  I'm not saying everyone has the same time frame - my point is just that it can take years just to figure yourself out once you decide to confront the issue.

At 2-3 months in, like you are, I was an absolute mess.  I decided I was an androgyne/crossdresser.  At the time, that was about as much as I could handle.  Being TS seemed like such a ridiculous and surreal notion.  I went absolutely crazy analyzing myself to try and get some answers.

If you have close friends, or even one friend you can talk to about it, it helps alleviate some of the insanity of stewing in your own brain each day.  My experience has been that my friends are no help in terms of figuring myself out gender-wise, but being able to tell them what I'm thinking, just to have someone else close to me know, has kept me sane.  It also makes the issue real and tangible to have someone else know.  Talking about it aloud with my friends helped me clear away the haze that can form when you're kicking things around in your own head for too long.

Remember that the world's not going to end tomorrow.  You've got time.  And now that you're confronting this, you'll understand yourself more with time.  In my experience, there aren't really any huge revelations.  You'd be surprised what the subconscious mind can figure out for you while you think you're hitting a brick wall with your conscious mind.

I know it's frustrating.  But then, you are questioning one of the most fundamental facets of your identity.  A little (or a LOT of) frustration is normal ;)

Hi Rita,

Welcome to Susan's 

I have read your and findingreason's posts and we three are very similar in our lives and thinking.  But if you read thru the other postings you will see that everyone here has struggled with these very issues and most of us have taken the road less traveled into transition.  Find yourselves a good therapist and look into transitioning.  No one says that it is easy, but I think most of the girls here will agree that we are most happy in transition.  It's not just a life, it's an adventure. 

We have all realized that we are women, hear us roar. 

I do have a question tho  Who said there was rule that says  video games, computers, etc. are "guy" things.  Do we not use a computer to communicate with this forum?  And each other.  Read e-mails. Shopping online.    And I happen to enjoy Call of Duty 2 -The Big Red 1. Ghost Recon, Big Game Hunter, and Madden NFL 07 ( Go Seahawks ).  And I love shoes, dresses, online shopping ( oh I guess I said that already  ).  We all like what we like the is on such things as 'guy'  or 'girl' things.

Love,
Janet

Janet-

Oh, I totally agree on the "guy" things vs "girl" things.  I was just saying I think those items are stereotyped as such, and I think in our quest to understand ourselves, it's almost inevitable that we compare ourselves to stereotypes at some point in the process, ¿no?

As far as therapy, I've got a great therapist whom I've been going to for over a year now.  I saw a different therapist in my teens for some non-trans-related issues and he helped me immensely.  So these days, I'm a huge advocate of therapy.  (In fact, a lot of people make fun of Dr Phil, but personally I think the guy's a hero simply for helping make therapy less taboo in American culture!)

Anyway, I'll save the details of my own life for the intro forum.  Thanks for the welcome :)

- Rita

I'm so sorry Rita, I forgot to welcome you to Susan's as well .

QuoteKeep this in mind, as well:  It takes a long time to figure this stuff out from the point where you finally decide to confront it.  I wasn't able to admit to myself that I might be transgendered until I was 22.  I'm 27 now, and still just getting things in order to look at starting HRT.  I'm not saying everyone has the same time frame - my point is just that it can take years just to figure yourself out once you decide to confront the issue.

At 2-3 months in, like you are, I was an absolute mess.  I decided I was an androgyne/crossdresser.  At the time, that was about as much as I could handle.  Being TS seemed like such a ridiculous and surreal notion.  I went absolutely crazy analyzing myself to try and get some answers.

Yeah, androgyne/crossdresser seems like a much easier notion to me right now. But, I go through the androgyne boards and feel that is where I don't belong. The thought of being TS sounds pretty crazy to me right now. Unfortunately, other things that work against me are that I was brought up constantly being told nothing was wrong with me. I was sure something wasn't right, but I was  always told that I was imagining things, and that nothing was wrong, what I was going through was normal. Another thing is that I didn't have interest in girls stuff when I was younger, I was what I guess you call the typical boy. I was embarrassed whenever there was anything that pointed towards me doing ANYTHING girly. Afraid of being teased, I guess.

One of the biggest things I can think of was that there was a particular dream I had of being a girl that seemed so real, that when I woke up, and discovered I was still a boy, I was sorely disappointed/upset.

I've considered crossdressing this Halloween, but I feel so awkward and embarrassed about doing it that it  is just crazy.

QuoteIf you have close friends, or even one friend you can talk to about it, it helps alleviate some of the insanity of stewing in your own brain each day.  My experience has been that my friends are no help in terms of figuring myself out gender-wise, but being able to tell them what I'm thinking, just to have someone else close to me know, has kept me sane.  It also makes the issue real and tangible to have someone else know.  Talking about it aloud with my friends helped me clear away the haze that can form when you're kicking things around in your own head for too long.

Remember that the world's not going to end tomorrow.  You've got time.  And now that you're confronting this, you'll understand yourself more with time.  In my experience, there aren't really any huge revelations.  You'd be surprised what the subconscious mind can figure out for you while you think you're hitting a brick wall with your conscious mind.

I know it's frustrating.  But then, you are questioning one of the most fundamental facets of your identity.  A little (or a LOT of) frustration is normal

I have a few friends I can talk to as well. It does help, but I am worried of deceiving them or something if I am wrong. I've expressed these worries to them as well.

Oh I hope you're right, cause I am hitting a brick wall really hard right now. There's two sides of me that are pulling in opposite directions and it's like completely nuts right now.


Janet:

Quote
I have read your and findingreason's posts and we three are very similar in our lives and thinking.  But if you read thru the other postings you will see that everyone here has struggled with these very issues and most of us have taken the road less traveled into transition.  Find yourselves a good therapist and look into transitioning.  No one says that it is easy, but I think most of the girls here will agree that we are most happy in transition.  It's not just a life, it's an adventure.  laugh

Yeah, I will find a therapist this fall, and get this straightened out. I feel really bad because everyone here seems so sure of themselves and here I am, not quite sure where I am headed. It is yet again, another reason for doubt  . Throw the fact that many "knew" at 4-6 years old, when I didn't exactly, just knew something wasn't right, is enough to make me crazy.

QuoteWe have all realized that we are women, hear us roar.  icon_female

Gosh I hope so. I really don't know sometimes....

Rita:

QuoteOh, I totally agree on the "guy" things vs "girl" things.  I was just saying I think those items are stereotyped as such, and I think in our quest to understand ourselves, it's almost inevitable that we compare ourselves to stereotypes at some point in the process, ¿no?

I've tried comparing myself to stereotypes I don't know how many times now.

QuoteAs far as therapy, I've got a great therapist whom I've been going to for over a year now.  I saw a different therapist in my teens for some non-trans-related issues and he helped me immensely.  So these days, I'm a huge advocate of therapy.  (In fact, a lot of people make fun of Dr Phil, but personally I think the guy's a hero simply for helping make therapy less taboo in American culture!)

I was offered therapy when I was younger, I was to scared to go through with it. I didn't want to be labeled for anything. I was a general emotional wreck when I was a teen. I didn't have a hard time growing up per se, but I was still going crazy.

QuoteI've considered crossdressing this Halloween, but I feel so awkward and embarrassed about doing it that it  is just crazy.

Actually, crossdressing on Halloween was the first time I presented as a girl.  I was 16 at the time.  My favorite band was Garbage (still is), and Shirley Manson was my hero (still is) to the point where everyone at school and work knew how obsessed I was with them/her.  Everyone was still cool with me, they just thought I was a little eccentric.  So I dressed up as Shirley on Halloween, and because I dressed specifically as her, no one thought it was strange that I dressed up.  They were amazed at the effort I put into it and how well I passed as a girl, but I was able to cloak the whole TG thing behind the shield of Halloween and my Shirley Manson obsession.

At the beginning of the day that Halloween, I was curious.  But by the end of the night, I was desperate not to have to change back to a boy.  I knew I'd found something important that day, and the thought of it ending so soon seemed tragic.  But I did it again the following Halloween, and a couple more after that, with different people who hadn't seen it before.  I wasn't ready to face the whole TG issue back then, so that was my way of dealing with it without actually having to come out to myself, I guess.

Around the age of 22/23, I finally decided I needed to stop hiding behind Shirley and just be myself.  So the next Halloween, I dressed as myself-as-a-girl as a witch ;)