Quote from: Kate on April 30, 2008, 08:33:56 PM
I realized that I *am* That Kind Of Person. Someone who believes in something so deeply, so insanely selfishly, that it's more important to me than anything. ANYTHING, including my wife's happiness... or even my life itself. It's horrible. It's ugly.

But it's also the Truth.

Hmmm, more taking a responsibility after the fact, and ignoring the fact itself to take responsibility for it. We all seem to do that, well, most of us, especially after a certain age and after certain life choices we made.

As I have told you, I feel more for the women we loved and married prior to our transitions than I do for us. But, I also wonder very much if that 'feel' isn't exactly what I am calling you out on as well. We internalize this sense that 'becoming an autherntic self' is selfish, yet we praise the authenticity of the soldier who 'throws himself on a grenade' to save his buddy.

We are left in a relational, emotional and moral quandry for which we 'blame' ourselves as though that blame can somehow expiate our perceived sins. It cannot. It never could. The fault of being born as you are, as I was, is whose 'fault?' Whose 'fault' is Down's Syndrome?

To become an authentic self seems to me to be more important, and better for all concerned than continuing to tamp-down that authenticity in the interest of 'saving someone else from hurt.' Who have you, or I, saved from hurt lately? And if you saved her from hurt, what price did that salvation exact on you?

To become authentic seems better late than never. And for me, or you, to moan and hair-pull and garment-rend seems like a pose to me. A pose that says, "See how long-suffering I was? Why couldn't I suffer more?" And, thus, we often set things up to increase our suffering. We must 'pay' for being born transsexual. How does one do that? By protesting our guilt, shame and inadequacy on a BB for some of the world to see? Or, maybe making sure that our lives totally fall-apart and we become martyrs to the cause of engendering constant happiness for another, or others?

Strange, that. My ex, my sister, my brother, were never completely happy and content prior to my transition. What difference would my not transitioning have made, honestly?

Some pretty smart cookie told someone else on this board lately that: It is what it is. She was right. If we find it otherwise we collude in our own martyrdom and take the fire like many of those early Christians took the sword or the lions: sincerely hoping for martyrdom to 'prove' our sanctity.  

We aren't saints, Kate. Neither you nor I, we are women. To embrace that is to embrace the contingent nature of our existence. You haven't colluded in your wife's disappointment. To shoulder the blame for her unhappiness alone is to claim something that is not yours: the responsibility for making another happy & content. We cannot do that, no matter the 'should-have-dones.'

Admit that you feel good about transitioning. That you enjoy who you are becoming, and that deep-down you wouldn't trade your own authenticity for anyone else's so-called happiness. That is neither horrible nor ugly.

Now, THAT'S the truth.

Nichole

Quote from: Nichole on April 30, 2008, 09:31:14 PM
And, thus, we often set things up to increase our suffering. We must 'pay' for being born transsexual. How does one do that? By protesting our guilt, shame and inadequacy on a BB for some of the world to see? Or, maybe making sure that our lives totally fall-apart and we become martyrs to the cause of engendering constant happiness for another, or others?

Not fallin' for the public display of self-loathing, huh? Sigh. Therapists! I can't get away with *anything* around here anymore, lol.

Yes, quite so, although I tend to self-flagellate myself in other ways usually. Oh poor me, I'll never be a REAL girl. Oh poor me, I'll never be BORN a girl, so why bother? Oh poor me...

Still, I think the "breaking point" is often when we do finally see what we are, what we've been doing, and truly accept it all for the first time... in all it's purity, rawness and exposed vulnerability. You just can't go back after that. You can't close your eyes again. The heart would just wither and die if you tried. However it's interpreted by us or anyone else, however we GOT to this point in our lives... we're here now.

It's like following the route on a map for decades, trying to get to some mythical destination, only to suddenly realize the map is totally fake... you've been following directions for another country, another planet all along, yet believing the whole time that it HAD to be you messing up the instructions. It COULDN'T be the map, nooooo of course not.

And damn. One day you realize it IS the map that's wrong. Totally. And you've made a mess of things wandering all over the darn place trying to MAKE it work. And here you are. Lost now from your own wanderings and ignorance of the facts.

What to do but accept that it happened... and try to find your way home?

I'm sorry Amanda. You ARE breaking. And you know it. All the Old Ways are failing you now, aren't they? Your hiding places vanishing? Things you thought you valued suddenly in question? Doing and thinking things that "aren't you?" Hating yourself for daring to believe you actually *deserve* something?

Don't leave us, OK? Just lurk if you have to, but stay connected... to us or anyone you can. Vent. Scream. Cry. Do whatever you have to do, but don't cut yourself off, OK?

~Kate~

Following maps? *smile* Last I checked they were printing maps on a page. Only takes a second to get from Philly to NYC or SF on a map.

Seems to me like we should be following a road, or track, or path. Or be on an airliner following an air-route.

Perhaps, if we put the map aside and just watch the roadsigns the problem will be less than it is trying to follow a map made by another, for another's journey.

Love,

Nichole

My breaking point was the when I discovered an inner harmony that I never knew was missing.

To make a short story long...  (Only half joking.)

My kids and I had different Spring Breaks.  So, my wife (seems strange to call her that nowadays) took the kids to the Out Banks of North Carolina.  While they were gone, I would become me when I got home from school.  I even took a day off to get my hair done, visit some friends and meet with my counselor.

By my counseling session, I knew I was transsexual. 

My counselor had always been surprised at how conservative I had been when looking at my own ->-bleeped-<-.  From early in our sessions, she had me far more towards being transsexual than what I did. 

I needed data.

The week I spent as me was that data.  Indeed, that particular day was the crucial datum I needed.

What I felt, was a normalicy that I had never before experienced.  I was finally comfortable in my own skin, and that was a first for me.  I was 48 years old at the time, and I finally liked the person looking back at me in the mirror.

That was April 2006.  June 2006, I was handed my bag and told I couldn't live at the house any longer.

Over the past two years, I have had many doubts, questions and concerns about my transition timeline, but I never doubted that I would transition.

Once you have experinced that deep, inner harmony, there is no turning back.  Transitioning becomes a need, not a want.

Chaunte

My breaking point was when I took a ride to the hospital in the back of an ambulance, and started to realise that if I didn't do something I would die as a male, and I couldn't bear the thought of that.

QuoteJune 2006, I was handed my bag and told I couldn't live at the house any longer.

I was dismissed from my 'family' and I felt llike I was released from a prison of conformity. Thirty years later, I was released from the demands of social conformity when i decided that life as a male was no longer tenable and that if I did nothing about it, I would soon die.  I had my third stroke, was paralysed, unable to do anything a normal human could do without aid, unable to speak, unable to do the most basic toilet and washing tasks alone, very alone and wishing upon death.

Those events and probable outcomes helped me to make the decisions to take full contol of my life, become a little more insistant with my doctors and take conntrol of my life.  My employer terminated me, my family were non-existent, my friends deserted me and I had nothing to lose by going fulltime as a female because I had no other human to answer to.  I was a free bird for the first time in my life.

I am probably very ugly, I get abuse daily, I feel hairy in the wrong places, feel very inadequate, often feel as if I am being fraudulent by trying to live as a female, I get criticised because I cannot make babies like a 'real' woman or cannot satisfy a man like a real woman can etc.,  do not know how a woman feels each month during menstruation, Child care, husband ego management, managing the demands of a rampant penis etc......

Breaking point?

I cannot nor will not diminish any of the postings before this one because the nature of forums is to speak freely among friends and I truely hope that all of us can speak freely here and in that spirit, here lies my thoughts....

My breaking point was in two parts..
1) Seeing family and friends dying from all sorts of things...here today gone tomorrow, some never reaching or doing what they wanted to do. I realized I was not going to live for ever...you have one go at this...and I better not past it up.

2) Could not go on anymore with this problem  I had since a child and could not understand the problem and the need of dressing up which was a secret from everyone (my wife thought it was just kinky game, the couple of times I was seen dressed and we had sex) I just could not take this secret life any more and started to do research on the net to better understand this and to talk to others like me, this was about 9 years ago, I was in my late 30's at this time. After I had a good understanding about my situation I broke the news to my wife and thats where my life took some wicked turns as she could not accept it, and left within 3 months of the talk  .....Anyway I would say this period of time was my breaking point.

QuoteI am probably very ugly, I get abuse daily, I feel hairy in the wrong places, feel very inadequate, often feel as if I am being fraudulent by trying to live as a female

Jennifer... I like your new avatar... and you are now where near ugly. Not even close sweets.

But I feel the see the same things in myself: ugly, hairy, inadequate,  fraudulent, these are words that define
us... for now. But I think they are not life sentences, we will bloom and they WILL be forgotten given time.

Amanda

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 29, 2008, 03:40:42 PM

It's a fine difference in what I'm saying. I NEED to and I HAVE to transition... those are given... I just don't WANT
to... who WANTS to put themselves through this? Who WANTS to destroy their current life. Who WANTS to
cause others pain.

Amanda

You got it. I've always wanted to be a girl. It when I needed to do it when I realized I was married, had a kid, good job, and fully entwined into a male/husband/father life. A successful one at that. Who in their right mind would want to give all of that up to change sex?

A Transsexual pushed to their limit. I still don't WANT to do any of it, I have to do it now. It needs to be done. I need to get it out of the way so I can go on. I've hit a dead end, a brick wall. I'm in checkmate in the game of life. There are no more moves. It's time to play a new game.

QuoteA Transsexual pushed to their limit. I still don't WANT to do any of it, I have to do it now. It needs to be done. I need to get it out of the way so I can go on. I've hit a dead end, a brick wall. I'm in checkmate in the game of life. There are no more moves. It's time to play a new game.

That about sums up where I am too... I feel like I may have a move or two left... but clearly out of good options.

Amanda

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on May 13, 2008, 01:24:15 PM

QuoteI am probably very ugly, I get abuse daily, I feel hairy in the wrong places, feel very inadequate, often feel as if I am being fraudulent by trying to live as a female

Jennifer... I like your new avatar... and you are now where near ugly. Not even close sweets.

But I feel the see the same things in myself: ugly, hairy, inadequate,  fraudulent, these are words that define
us... for now. But I think they are not life sentences, we will bloom and they WILL be forgotten given time.

Amanda

Thank you Amanda for the kind words.  I don't get many and you have boosted me tonight after a torrid day.  I hold on to the prospect of being prescribed hormone therapy following my next visit to the Gender Idenntity Clinic in London in June because I am convinced that this will do great things with how I feel about my looks, maybe even change them in those subtle ways that oestogen alone can manage.   I struggle to see what it is 'exactly' that seperates a male from a female face apart from the look and texture of the skin and that a girls is usually considered 'attractive' whilst a man is either 'handsome' or downright ugly. 

As for the torrid nature of my day, I was in town to meet with someone.  I waited an hour but the person failed to turn up. I felt very exposed and vulnerable just waiting around in all my fine work clothes ( skirt, blouse, tights, low heels, scarf and name badge ), 2 men approached me 'for a chat' and a number of teenage schoolie's decided that I was game for some taunting, I felt an obvious ->-bleeped-<- rather than a less than attractive 48 yr old woman abnd I eventually made my way to my place of work feeling rather annoyed .    For a short while, I am ashamed to admit to feeling like giving up with transition until I had a few million currency units, a private island off the coast of Thailand and Dr Suporn at my disposal to rearrange my face etc.,   however I am not going to just give up.

I was and remain well aware that transition from man to woman is no easy ball game and was given sound warning and advice from my friend Berliegh and despite her cruel bluntness, she was 100% correct.   When born, we are given our gender on the basis of visible genital arrangement and raised accordingly.  This may remain the case for ever until the social world and the medical world in particular realise that as human souls with emotions and the power of intelligent thought, we each tend to follow an inbuilt instinct.  In our cases, we follow a gender path that is at odds with our genital arrangements but by the time we realise this, we have been brainwashed into a life that in many cases, is quite intolerable and needs to be corrected.   

I mentioned above the taunting that came my way from a group of school students, they saw me and instantly hurled loud abuse in a public arena directly at me.  What bothered me about the incident was the fact that those kids were all GIRLS!!  What kind of future do any of us have if our youngsters behave like this?  God help future young people that have gender identity crises because without a serious and concerted campaign of education much like the one that has given the Gay community the recognition that they clearly deserved, we have a bleak future.   

Very simple for me...it was a class in college called:
"Sex, Self and Psychoanalysis"

Made my situation very real to me...and was one of the best classes I have ever had.

QuoteI hold on to the prospect of being prescribed hormone therapy following my next visit to the Gender Idenntity Clinic in London in June because I am convinced that this will do great things with how I feel about my looks, maybe even change them in those subtle ways that oestogen alone can manage.

Wow... from your avatar I would have thought you were already on hormones. I think they will do wonders for you. I don't think if
I knew I would call you trans from your avatar picture. I just see a woman.

QuoteI struggle to see what it is 'exactly' that separates a male from a female face apart from the look and texture of the skin and that a girls is usually considered 'attractive' whilst a man is either 'handsome' or downright ugly.

Well.... some of the things are the forehead does not protrude as much, a shorter upper lip, a short chin height... all of which you
seem to have from your avatar. I think your face is quite pleasing and I think hormones will enhance that. I have the same
problem looking at myself... all I see if male but it gets better every day. There have been some glimpses of Amanda
when I'm in boy mode the last couple of week and I hope that the changes continue.

I'm so sorry you have to put up with taunts and name calling, I feel for you. That is how some kids (many) are raised and
socialized I guess in todays world.

Amanda

Quote from: Christine on May 14, 2008, 03:05:10 PM
Very simple for me...it was a class in college called:
"Sex, Self and Psychoanalysis"

Made my situation very real to me...and was one of the best classes I have ever had.

Hello Christine,   it is often the most unexpected that gives us the opening that releases us from our private jail.  My get out of jail card was paralysis in a hospital bed following my 3rd stroke, nothing more to lose apart from life itself, rather concentrates the mind somewhat.....

We all need that kick up the butt and it is amazing how that comes to us all........

Posted on: 14 May 2008, 21:35:19

---

QuoteWell.... some of the things are the forehead does not protrude as much, a shorter upper lip, a short chin height... all of which you
seem to have from your avatar. I think your face is quite pleasing and I think hormones will enhance that. I have the same
problem looking at myself... all I see if male but it gets better every day.

Amanda, Once again I thank you for your kind appraisal.  Your desciption of my 'forehead, shorter upper lip, chin height etc. mean little to me because I have minimal understanding of this.  The upper lip does interest me most of all because I constantly see women showing their top teeth more and in a very attractive way, something that is missing with men......do I make any sense?  I call it the Billie Piper, Jodie Kidd mouth, this is one of the things I desire, perhaps more than a female facial surgury or a boob job because it is the small details that clinch it in the eyes of others that decide if I be considered a woman or not..

QuoteAmanda, Once again I thank you for your kind appraisal.  Your desciption of my 'forehead, shorter upper lip, chin height etc. mean little to me because I have minimal understanding of this.  The upper lip does interest me most of all because I constantly see women showing their top teeth more and in a very attractive way, something that is missing with men......do I make any sense?  I call it the Billie Piper, Jodie Kidd mouth, this is one of the things I desire, perhaps more than a female facial surgury or a boob job because it is the small details that clinch it in the eyes of others that decide if I be considered a woman or not..

Your most welcome I guess it's OK to hijack my own topic... but instead I started a new one to discuss this:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,35032.new.html#new

Amanda

My breaking point was when my wife said she would never leave me (when I told her that I hoped she'd never leave me), yet when I asked her if she'd divorce me if I did look like a woman, she said "I'm not attracted to women".  THAT coupled with the realization that she was never any more visibly attracted to me when I looked all macho and muscular, turned on the light bulb.  Let others deal with the confusion, for me it is quite simple: Transition!  It's not all doom and gloom, though.  Yesterday we went to the Wal-Mart in my home town (I am from a small town where quite a few people would recognize me) and I was very concerned about my appearance.  I was wearing a pair of my wife's purple maternity pants, and dark blue gardening shoes (the kind that Wal-Mart sells).  From the waist down it was pretty obvious that I was dressed feminine.  I had our son with us.  There were A LOT of people taking second looks at me, and a few of them looked at me in the eyes, then stared at my legs and feet.  It was a little unnerving.  In the end, I survived and my wife said to me "Remember, be who you are".  I think she is comfortable with the thinking that I am a tomboy (which I am).  If I born a girl, I would still enjoy carpentry, doing heavy work in the garden and trying to hit softballs as far as I could hit them.  Lately, more women have been calling me "sweety", so I don't know if that means I am coming off as feminine, or that I look feminine, or both.  Anyway, I'm rambling as I'm prone to do on here.  I will be seeing an endo in September.  In the meantime I am trying to wrestle my hair loss.  Went to pick up my scripts yesterday at Wal-Mart, and was told that my insurance denied Propecia.  The pharmacist told me that I should have my doctor prescribe Proscar instead, that it was "the same exact thing".  Well, I read on some hair loss forums last night that Proscar isn't that effective in treating hair loss, because of the differences in dosages and the need to have the same dosage each time out.  Depressing

Aeron

Quote from: AeronTG on May 24, 2008, 09:41:30 AM
The pharmacist told me that I should have my doctor prescribe Proscar instead, that it was "the same exact thing".  Well, I read on some hair loss forums last night that Proscar isn't that effective in treating hair loss, because of the differences in dosages and the need to have the same dosage each time out. 

They are almost the same: Propecia has 1 mg finasteride per pill, while Proscar has 5 mg. The difference doesn't really matter as far as blood DHT levels go, but I guess prostate issues are serious enough that a larger safety margin is a good thing. The thing is, though, that a quarter pill of Proscar is just as good for hair as one pill of Propecia, and much cheaper. If you want something slightly more effective, dutasteride (Avodart) is a bit better at blocking the conversion of testosterone to DHT, and since it's primarily intended to treat prostate enlargement like Proscar it too is likely covered by your insurance. Anyway, all of these will mostly just prevent any further loss, not cause much re-growth of hair that has already been lost.

I hope this wasn't too much of a violation against the forum rules regarding drug and dosage discussions. If so, please accept my apologies.

  Nfr

Quote from: Seshatneferw on May 24, 2008, 11:00:19 AM
Anyway, all of these will mostly just prevent any further loss, not cause much re-growth of hair that has already been lost.

I was looking at some very old photos of myself the other night, and was shocked to see how much MORE hair I had in my mid/late thirties versus my late twenties... all because of taking Propecia for five years or so (long before HRT). It worked fairly well for me, but obviously took quite some time to show significant results.

~Kate~

First I would like to thank Nero for that statement. You cannot know what it means to hear another say that.

"Women are always putting the needs and happiness of others before their own, but it's time to look out for number one. Don't feel bad for it. You've got to be true to yourself even if others get hurt in the process.
Remember hon - You didn't create or choose this problem but you're going to fix it. Don't feel bad for putting yourself first for a change."

For far too many years I did exactly that.  Even now, Im not sure sometimes whether Ive caused more harm to myself or to others by allowing myself to do that. Sad to say, I dont believe my family will ever admit to that sentiment in full. I never ever thought that I was such good husband/father/stepfather that I would be so opposed in this. Another thread that.

My breaking point was a series of points over 40+ years and culminated last July. Each one getting more severe and harder to handle. I wont go into a lot of details or this thread will turn into another book. Basically after 4 suicides (I call them that because there is no way short of shear luck or devine power that I should be writing this today) and years of misinformation, lack of knowledge, and the building of sucessive walls and barriers that those methods I had put in place finally failed.

I can only speculate as to why now and not sooner. But thankfullly, finally I have been empowered to allow myself the gift that I have ever known. That gift of finally knowing yourself and allowing yourself to be known to the world. Had it not been for two caring women where I work and them hearing my pain, I would have made suicide number five the last one, for I was going to jump from 14 floors up.

Once I found out that the times had changed and I was not alone and others like me were there and I could talk to them, it was nothing but forward for me. It has not been pain free nor do I expect the rest to be without it but that is where my breaking point was, at least the one that put me over the top. I am 61 years old and had tried to transition in the early 1970's but was denied it by the medical field then. Hugs as always.

Wendy

I quite agree with Nichole's well expressed thoughts and feelings that she has so well expressed in her post.

QuoteI think the "breaking point" is often when we do finally see what we are, what we've been doing, and truly accept it all for the first time... in all it's purity, rawness and exposed vulnerability. You just can't go back after that. You can't close your eyes again. The heart would just wither and die if you tried. However it's interpreted by us or anyone else, however we GOT to this point in our lives... we're here now.

My first wake up call was when I was contemplating on driving my car into a rock cut one night on my way home, That was the deciding point that convinced me it was time for Cindy to be born.

I have felt those feelings as well, probably the vulnerability, insecurity and fear would have got the best of me if I had not met Wing Walker. We supported each other. I did as someone has mentioned. I did not make the decision to begin transitioning. It was not a decision it was just a need to move ahead, it was easier to go forward once I surrendered to become me. Kate you are a very beautiful and awesome butterfly that is about to take it's first flight into the brilliant blue sky.

Cindy