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University Administrator Fired for Her Faith

Started by Natasha, May 27, 2008, 06:02:21 PM

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cindianna_jones

Quote from: Kristi on May 28, 2008, 02:06:51 PM

I, for one, do not want any government-sponsored thought police checking candidates for views someone considers incorrect.  As tempting as that sometimes sounds, we are putting a dangerous mechanism in place which will almost certainly be used against us at some point.

Kristi

It goes both ways too.  As a populace, we demand politicos to take positions they may not otherwise represent.  Could you imagine a presidential candidate who didn't have to reaffirm his belief in Jesus every time he took the podium? I can't because he'd never get te run as a candidate in a major party.  It would matter not what he believed (even in Jesus), he would not get elected. This is a far cry from the views our founding fathers had in mind when they put together this country.

I'm looking forward to the day when a fine and proven Christian candidate will have the guts to respond to the spirituality question with:  "My faith is a cherished and sacred thing....  as it is with most Americans. I intend to not spoil that with politics. Americans come from all faiths. This is a race of issues and not religion. Judge me by my works."  He will win and perhaps, this will no longer be a checklist item for the viability of future candidates.

C
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joannatsf

Quote from: lisagurl on May 28, 2008, 11:30:12 AM
Quoteyou don't have to like it, but you do have to do it."

You always have the option to work elsewhere. Employers have a right to hire and remove anyone who they feel is the best for the business. That is what management is all about.

A public university is not a private business.  The rules are quite different.  If Ms. Dixon were on the faculty there would be know question of her academic freedom to hold these views; a black female civil servant?  Well that's another story.
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Rachael

she spoke out against homosexuality. Its a social fauxpas to do so for whatever reason, its also probably against the universities diversity charter.

This isnt to do with her religion, its to do with her prejudice.
R >:D
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Suzy

Quote from: Rachael on May 28, 2008, 11:02:30 PM
she spoke out against homosexuality. Its a social fauxpas to do so for whatever reason, its also probably against the universities diversity charter.

This isnt to do with her religion, its to do with her prejudice.
R >:D

I have to disagree.  If it had affected her job performance that would be one thing.  But there is no evidence that it did.  I just think we need to be very careful when we say that one particular view point is necessary to work anywhere.  That will certainly come back to bite us.  And if the university has a diversity policy, why would it also not include her?  While I don't think anyone here would agree with her, who is to decide who gets in on the approved "diversity" list?   If there is anyone excluded, then there is, de facto, no diversity policy.


Kristi
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NicholeW.

Quote from: Kristi on May 28, 2008, 02:06:51 PM
Quote from: Cindi Jones on May 28, 2008, 12:05:32 AM
The email that I sent her:

------------------
Crystal,

I too have suffered discrimination and have fully experienced the pain and subsequent challenges. However the great hurdle in my life was far different.

I am asexual, an atheist, and transsexual.  While I disagree with almost every one of your goals listed on your website, I do fully support you in your right to free speech.  As far as I can tell, you have been wronged.

I wish you success in your legal proceedings.

Cindi Jones

I could not have said it better, Cindi.  If we wish to be taken seriously, we must support the right of free speech, especially when it does not agree with our own views.  ...  I, for one, do not want any government-sponsored thought police checking candidates for views someone considers incorrect.  As tempting as that sometimes sounds, we are putting a dangerous mechanism in place which will almost certainly be used against us at some point.

Kristi

I totally concur with both of those statements. I have forgotten whether or not she was identified in her op-ed piece as a UofT administrator. If she was, that may be problematic, but the qestion is, did the paper so identify her or did she identify herself with the university?

The reason the ACLU often defends the rights of hate groups is exactly what Kristi, tekla & Cindi have pointed out. Where does the proscription against 'free speech' stop?

If the thought-police are given free-rein, as i am sure the present administration would love, then we all march in lock-step, or else. Trust me, I don't want to march in lock-step with many of the people who write things I read or speak things I hear. But, the defense of the right to speak their minds is also the defense of me to speak my own.

Nichole
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Rachael

americans value thier free speach too much, and cry when someone offends them.



Just because you have the right to say something. Doesnt mean you should.
R >:D
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joannatsf

Quote from: Rachael on May 29, 2008, 09:47:49 AM
americans value thier free speach too much, and cry when someone offends them.



Just because you have the right to say something. Doesnt mean you should.
R >:D

Quote from:  Abraham Lincoln, 16th president of US (1809 - 1865)Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Good advice for you and Ms. Dixon
       
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NicholeW.

Quote from: Rachael on May 29, 2008, 09:47:49 AM
americans value thier free speach too much, and cry when someone offends them.



Just because you have the right to say something. Doesnt mean you should.

I absolutely agree with that, Rach. It's very good advice. I also very much agree with Claire. Ideas should be thought-out somewhat before they are spoken or written.

Most of your ideas here aren't moderated are they? You seem to enjoy that aspect of American free-speech that we 'value too much.'

N~

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tekla

As I said earlier, that specific contrast makes me cringe.  If one group is making a historical reference, other people have the right to debate it.  And though it might make for a swell final exam question:

Compare and contrast the movement for gay rights in the United States with the Civil Rights struggle for African-Americans.

It does not work on a simple one to one comparison.  I think she - as an African-American woman (among other things) has an absolute right to point that out. 

While she may have been (pick one: silly, ill-advised, out-of-line, wrong, poorly informed...) to write the letter, unless it can be found in some way that is obvious to 12 people that it directly and overtly interfered with her doing her job, she can not be fired (from a public school) for doing so.  And, since I'm damn skippy that they ain't gonna want this to go to jury in Toledo, they are going to settle out of court for a nice chunk of change.

And I rarely cry when someone offends me.  I doubt that most Americans do.  They might well give you some equivalent to the middle finger salute for it, but we tend to otherwise not let our feelings get hurt too bad.  It's not a nanny state yet.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Rachael

Quote from: Nichole on May 29, 2008, 10:51:44 AM

Most of your ideas here aren't moderated are they? You seem to enjoy that aspect of American free-speech that we 'value too much.'

N~


Oh believe me... they are.
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Alyssa M.

Quote from: Rachael on May 29, 2008, 09:47:49 AM
americans value thier free speach too much, and cry when someone offends them.

Waddaya mean, "too much"? Not giving a damn what other people think is a more archetypal American charachteristic than having a thin skin.

Personally, I think Brits value their reputations too much. They don't cry when someone offends them -- they sue! I think the horribly restrictive British defamation laws are nuts. (But hey, it's your country, not mine.)

This issue is concerns Americans, and thus is based on American values, including freedom of speech and religion; British views on freedom of expression aren't germaine.
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another.

   - Anatole France
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NicholeW.

Quote from: Rachael on May 30, 2008, 12:27:53 PM
I rest my case.
R >:D

On what, dear? That someone else makes the same sort of statement in response to yours that you made above?

That's just mutuality in action. >:D An opinion expressed.

N~
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