Are you proud of being transsexual?

This is an interesting thing to me. I take pride in my work and my ethics. My manners and my philosophies. But my birth defect? Not so much. If I was to be proud of my transsexuality, then on an equal level I should be proud of my attention defect disorder, too (which I'm also not proud of). It is too matter-of-fact to me to be proud of it. It would be like being proud of being caucasian or blonde or left handed. It is just something that is.

Now, I can understand taking pride in one's will power and courage that it took to overcome the obstacles and ostracizing that occurred due to one's transsexuality. That makes sense. Though still that is not something I'm necessarily proud of, even though others say it is something i should be proud of. It's just never occurred to me to be proud of it.


After you fully transition, are you still transsexual?

I'm not so sure you still are. I mean, at that point your physical sex and your gender are congruent. They're cis. You're cis then, yes? Makes sense to me. I guess the discussion on this question is whether your state of transsexuality is dictated by appearance and documentation or by your chromosomes.

And lets just say for sake of argument, just a hypothetical, what if there was a miracle breakthrough in science and you are able to change your chromosomes, switch that Y to an X or vice versa. Would you still be transsexual after that switch?

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on May 30, 2008, 05:30:27 PM
Are you proud of being transsexual?

no.

why? because..

Quote from: Natasha on March 01, 2008, 07:40:45 PM
To use transsexual as a noun is dehumanising, leaches people with with this syndrome of their personality, and makes it easy for the bigoted to think of them as being "other", "weird", and "perverted". People with this syndrome have a particular medical condition, it is not the basis and ground of their identity, and we should not see them as "laboratory specimens" or "circus freaks".


The adjectival use is hardly better. People all too easily construe "transsexual man" or "transsexual woman" as "false man" or "impostor woman". Many are confused because of this term as to the proper term to call a person with this condition. They wonder whether they should address them as "man" or "woman". This is the source of such vile constructions as "she-male and "he-she".


It is diabolically cruel to affix the label of "transsexual" onto a person for the rest of their life. They do not engage themselves in a life-long journey between the sexes; it is only a temporary stage on the way to total personal congruency. This usage of transsexual clearly suggests and implies that the person involved is never a true man or woman, but rather a pariah and on a perpetual pilgrimage between the sexes.


Whenever the term "transsexual man" or "transsexual woman" is used, the strong implication is that they are not truly men or women. It matters not if the person involved is at peace because they have finally reached congruence or if their personal appearance is well within the bounds of their sex.


This term robs the person with this syndrome of full completion, it steals the peace of congruence, and it smirkily informs one that no matter how much one tries, you shall never be allowed to end the perpetual wandering of transsexuality. The continual accusations never give you rest, and you shall never be finally safe at home, in concord and harmony.


This is ironic, because we live in an age where we can correct the physical anomalies completely. This is cruel because the time of transition is only a year or two at most, but as long as one is a "transsexual", many shall never allow you to reach the far shore.

I don't know. I don't exactly want to keep the trans label forever but I don't really want to be thought of as a born man either. Probably because I'm keeping my pussy. If I were having SRS, I might feel differently about it. But the way it is with me, I'd feel wrong being stealth, like I wasn't being true to myself and hiding too big a part of me.
But that's just my thoughts on it. Also, us guys face a different level of discrimination than you girls, too.

Posted on: May 30, 2008, 07:07:22 PM

---

Actually, I just wouldn't feel comfortable with peeps thinking I've got a dick. When it comes down to it, I want people to know what's in my pants. I mean you never know who you're about to get cozy with and it would be pretty awkward if they don't already know what I got.

I'm just going to answer this the best I can....just my opinion here...no disrespect to anyone..

1) No not really....
2) I would say so.....unless my DNA could be changed...its a permanent scar I'm afraid to say.

gina

Quote from: Natasha on May 30, 2008, 06:06:57 PM

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on May 30, 2008, 05:30:27 PM
Are you proud of being transsexual?

no.

why? because..

Quote from: Natasha on March 01, 2008, 07:40:45 PM
To use transsexual as a noun is dehumanising, leaches people with with this syndrome of their personality, and makes it easy for the bigoted to think of them as being "other", "weird", and "perverted". People with this syndrome have a particular medical condition, it is not the basis and ground of their identity, and we should not see them as "laboratory specimens" or "circus freaks".


The adjectival use is hardly better. People all too easily construe "transsexual man" or "transsexual woman" as "false man" or "impostor woman". Many are confused because of this term as to the proper term to call a person with this condition. They wonder whether they should address them as "man" or "woman". This is the source of such vile constructions as "she-male and "he-she".


It is diabolically cruel to affix the label of "transsexual" onto a person for the rest of their life. They do not engage themselves in a life-long journey between the sexes; it is only a temporary stage on the way to total personal congruency. This usage of transsexual clearly suggests and implies that the person involved is never a true man or woman, but rather a pariah and on a perpetual pilgrimage between the sexes.


Whenever the term "transsexual man" or "transsexual woman" is used, the strong implication is that they are not truly men or women. It matters not if the person involved is at peace because they have finally reached congruence or if their personal appearance is well within the bounds of their sex.


This term robs the person with this syndrome of full completion, it steals the peace of congruence, and it smirkily informs one that no matter how much one tries, you shall never be allowed to end the perpetual wandering of transsexuality. The continual accusations never give you rest, and you shall never be finally safe at home, in concord and harmony.


This is ironic, because we live in an age where we can correct the physical anomalies completely. This is cruel because the time of transition is only a year or two at most, but as long as one is a "transsexual", many shall never allow you to reach the far shore.

I guess this is true now, but through exposure, society and culture will break and morph, no? It happened for homosexuals over the last 30 years.

Natasha, I think you're arguing semantics, and I think that's obscuring the real answer. One might ask whether you are proud of being a woman born with HBS (as per your signature). I suspect the answer is no, no more than one might be proud of being a cancer survivor. Yet some are proud of just that.

As for me, I don't really know. My feelings range from pride to anger to joy to dread. They average to somewhere near indifference, I guess, but the fluctuations are large.

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on May 30, 2008, 05:30:27 PM
Are you proud of being transsexual?

This is an interesting thing to me. I take pride in my work and my ethics. My manners and my philosophies. But my birth defect? Not so much. If I was to be proud of my transsexuality, then on an equal level I should be proud of my attention defect disorder, too (which I'm also not proud of). It is too matter-of-fact to me to be proud of it. It would be like being proud of being caucasian or blonde or left handed. It is just something that is.

Now, I can understand taking pride in one's will power and courage that it took to overcome the obstacles and ostracizing that occurred due to one's transsexuality. That makes sense. Though still that is not something I'm necessarily proud of, even though others say it is something i should be proud of. It's just never occurred to me to be proud of it.

I'm really not proud of it.  To be honest, i feel so ashamed of it, i don't want any people to know at all. I would love to never have to discuss it with anyone and just ignore my past.  But I know I'm wrong in thinking like this, and am trying to deal with feelings of shame. And I think your right, transsexuality just is, and so being proud (or ashamed) of it is pointless.  I mean, we didn't do anything to become transsexual, so there isn't anything to be proud of.

I think there are people who should definitely be proud of what they've overcome.  Especially those that transitioned decades ago when social acceptance was so much less.  And people like Lyn Conway who have never let it hold them back and she is so inspirational.

Though my transition is more marked by cowardice than courage, and I'm not particularly proud.  If I'd transitioned soon after understanding my gender issues, instead of waiting years hoping it'd go away then i'd have something to be proud about.  *shrugs* I have plenty of other things that I'm proud of to make up for it.

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on May 30, 2008, 05:30:27 PM
After you fully transition, are you still transsexual?

I'm not so sure you still are. I mean, at that point your physical sex and your gender are congruent. They're cis. You're cis then, yes? Makes sense to me. I guess the discussion on this question is whether your state of transsexuality is dictated by appearance and documentation or by your chromosomes.

And lets just say for sake of argument, just a hypothetical, what if there was a miracle breakthrough in science and you are able to change your chromosomes, switch that Y to an X or vice versa. Would you still be transsexual after that switch?

I'm not sure that there can be a meaningful answer.  Depending on your criteria of what makes somebody cisgender you'll get different answers.
Your state of transsexuality is determined by your definition of it.  And its just a word, it makes no difference to who we are.

Are you proud of being transsexual?

Not really. I think it's a big inconvenience, and I'll probably never really have the body I want. I'm sure everyone's heard my whining; my life is going to be tough without a penis, and I won't stand for a fake one that looks like a bloated condom full of popcorn. My damn phallus isn't going to be some Halloween treat with candy corn on it!

I am a little proud that I've come this far in defending my gender identity, but that is pride of my strength and will to carry forward. My transsexuality is not at all a gift.

After you fully transition, are you still transsexual?

I will ALWAYS technically be a transsexual, even if I had a full on penis/testes transplant and were seamlessly male on my entire person. This is because I was BORN female, and I transitioned. But will I call myself a transsexual in public? Heavens no. I'll introduce myself as a young man, thank you very much. Saying, or implying, that "hey I'm a ->-bleeped-<-" is just as weird and annoying as the kid who says, "Hi, my name is Stephen and I'm GAY." Let people FIGURE out your sex, your gender, and your sexuality. It doesn't need to be a public service announcement...

To my doctor, I will always be a post-op transsexual. But I won't feel that for myself and my identity.

I think even after switching chromosomes, if it were possible, that person would still be a transsexual (TECHNICALLY). But I say post-op, and even pre-op, treat and respect a trans as their target sex.

And sorry to all the transwomen I may ever meet. I'm almost too polite. Transwomen amaze me, to be honest. I'll be really shy. I hope they don't see that as fear or transphobia (me being trans myself) but I just can't wipe the grin off my face when I see a transgirl. It's really... interesting. I'm sure I'll find out why eventually.

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on May 30, 2008, 05:30:27 PM
Are you proud of being transsexual?

No. It's a creation of psychologists/psychiatrists to label people outside of their (not mine) identified (binary) gender norms, but it has no real meaning in my life other than their control of the necessary medical help I need to transistion. Since I don't buy the label, there's no pride to being it. And some physicians, like mine, don't buy it either and don't use the term.

QuoteAfter you fully transition, are you still transsexual?

No. When I get there I will be a post-transistion woman period. It's one's history and not one's present. And since I don't buy now, I won't buy it then.

Well I don't know if I'm proud. Like Elwood said, it's a big inconvinience but I do manage. All that is important to me is that I pass as a guy but sadly, I can't do that because I guess I got to much of a female face or something. That's why I put gothic eye shadow on to maybe at least look androgynous or at least give the person who looks at me second thoughts on what my physical sex is.

I would say yeah I'd still be trans if I ever finished completely transitioning but to anyone who asked if I was a guy or girl I'd say I'm a guy but if someone ever asked me what my physical sex was I'd tell them to just figure it out and it doesn't really matter since I'm not going to have sex with them.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on May 30, 2008, 06:47:59 PM
Natasha, I think you're arguing semantics, and I think that's obscuring the real answer.

and i think you're missing my answer:

Quote from: Natasha on May 30, 2008, 06:06:57 PM

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on May 30, 2008, 05:30:27 PM
Are you proud of being transsexual?

no.

Proud of being a transsexual? No. No more than I am proud of being Caucasian, or proud of being born in the South, or proud of being born in January. Nor am I ashamed of it, any more than I am ashamed of being pink, Southern or a January baby.

Am I one post? Well no. Post-teenager I am not a teenager either, although I was once. It is part of my history. So is TS. *shrug*

And if, hypothetically I could get my DNA changed would I be TS? Same answer as above. I would have been, but no longer.

Nichole

Quote from: Nichole on May 31, 2008, 12:41:33 AM
Proud of being a transsexual? No. No more than I am proud of being Caucasian, or proud of being born in the South, or proud of being born in January. Nor am I ashamed of it, any more than I am ashamed of being pink, Southern or a January baby.

Am I one post? Well no. Post-teenager I am not a teenager either, although I was once. It is part of my history. So is TS. *shrug*

And if, hypothetically I could get my DNA changed would I be TS? Same answer as above. I would have been, but no longer.

Nichole

At first I believed that I was born transsexual.  I was, but now I can call it Harry Benjamin Syndrome for the same reason that Natasha does:  I am not trans anything.  I am a woman.  I had to find a way to solve the incongruity between my outer self and my inner self. 

I also had to figure out how to finesse the fact that I bought into the living lie, that I did boy things instead of girl things, that I have no first-hand knowledge of how to braid hair, do double-Dutch jump rope, what it feels to have a period (not to mention the first one), and all of the other things that a girl encounters on her way to maturity.  I missed high school, proms, dances, dating (as a girl), and my genuinely female perspective on things.

However, never being one to allow little stuff like that deter me, I will say to anyone whose business I believe it is to know that I was born with HBS, that I was born with the gift of having two lives, in one lifetime, in the same body. For me, that is unbeatable.  This is my opinion and it's what floats my boat.

What will I be when I am finished transitioning?  A woman, as I was before.  I will continue to complain about the discomfort of mammograms, thank men who assist me by holding a door for me, share a smile with other women I pass in the aisle at the supermarket, try clothes on before I buy them, watch over loose toddlers at the mall until their parents claim them, and use Mary Kay products because they make me feel better about myself.

I make no apologies for my height, my weight, my hair that is thinning a bit on the top, the distance from the lower edge of my upper lip to under my nose, the ratio between the length of my upper arm and my lower arm, and whatever else is supposed to be undesirable in a woman.  Only the coroner or an anthropologist will know for sure as all of my documents will attest to my having been a woman for all of my life.

These are my opinions.  They are not offered to try to tell anyone that their beliefs or feelings are right or wrong.  No way.  Having said that, they are not up for discussion as they are what makes my world exclusively mine.

Gracie, we are whatever we believe we are.

Thank you for hearing me out.

Wing Walker

This thread is kind of a downer...

My answers:
I hate being trans. It's a cruel joke that women get stuck in male bodies and men stuck in female bodies and we can't just trade. But there's nothing I can do about it and I'd rather not dwell on the fact that my body will never be what it was supposed to be.

I don't think you're still trans after you've had a complete SRS. Unless that's how you'd like to identify, whatever floats your boat.

Hi,
I have lived as female for the past 8 years and the word trans kind of faded away on me during those 8 years. So during that time I didn't think of me as being anything else but a woman doing the same as any other woman in Ontario. It is only since last August I was reminded of where my roots started, when I found the link for this site among some other old emails that I hadn't cleaned out for goodness gracious knows how long it had been buried in my email archives.

I came back for lack of anything else to do at the time and then decided to stay for a while. Well one thing led to another and I ended up being a peer support worker for trans folks at a drop-in downtown. So yeah, I'm a woman, a very happy one, I find myself quite happy to have Wing Walker sharing her life with me. I feel useful again.

I am also happy to have had the opportunity of learning here at Susan's.

Cindy   

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on May 30, 2008, 05:30:27 PM
Are you proud of being transsexual?

After you fully transition, are you still transsexual?

Yes, and yes.

Transitioning cannot and should not take away the past.  But however much society wants to stygmatise who and what I am, it is still at the core of my being and my strength.  Where in the past I ran from it and it made me weak, today I embrase it and it has made me strong.

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on May 30, 2008, 05:30:27 PM
Are you proud of being transsexual?

After you fully transition, are you still transsexual?

1)  Yes, but only in and of that there are groups in society who so want to inflict a state of shame for having accepted that I'm trans and it ain't going away and this is the best way of dealing with it.  I'm proud in the face of their adversity.  I'm proud because being proud pisses them off, and sets a good example for those in society who are neither automatically for trans equality and empowerment (meaning that the trans distinction makes no meaningful difference,) nor automatically against trans on the basis of some natural or god-given universal morality.

Otherwise, I'd love to not have to be 'proud' of something I really can't choose not to be.

2) Uhm...  My body is male, my brain was feminised when my mom was given DES to take while she was pregnant with me.  I don't fall into the 97% of of people who have a brain-body match.  Society as a whole wants to see the 97% become 100% through forced surgery of intersex babies and denying transition to those who exhibit what we now academically name "Gender Disphoria".  Once I understood "what's wrong with me" and took the steps to make the corrections I came to realize were necessary, I found it possible to live a more normal life.  I no longer have the strain of constantly maintaining a male persona, and can behave much more as myself.  For me, personally, I'm not trans.

Back to society, though, and the group that wishes to construct an idealistic, perfect, godly, universal morality.  I will always be trans to them, with the word 'transsexual' carrying the connotations 'bad', 'evil', 'ungodly', 'abomination', et cetera.  And even for the segment of society who will automatically accept us because the morality they hold tells them it is wrong to discriminate will see trans-ness as something different. 
Though there will be people who will lose the view that we are trans (and thus are to be treated differently,) there will always remain those who will see trans-ness as a distinction that can, should, and will set us apart from those who naturally lack this quality.

To recap, I don't really see myself as trans, but I recognise that there are those people who do, and I must be prepared to deal with them and their attitudes.  So if I'm seen by someone as trans, then I am trans.

My Two Cents for this discussion;

Karen

Edit: fixed a spello. =K

I avoid the "transsexual" label altogether. I'm just Kate

Sure, I know some scientists or whomever will label me "a transsexual." That's fine, that's what they do, but *I* don't think of myself as a thing, a category, a class. I don't "belong" to a diagnosis.

And it's not that I was "always a woman" either. To me, that's just more label game playing... the same thing the scientists do.

For me, it's not about finding an appropriate label, it's about getting away from them altogether.

~Kate~

Hi Kate, I did it for 8 years. At the job I started, well I work with trans people, but when I leave my job there isn't a soul outside of the job that knows anything about my history except my docs. Not even the ladies where I do volunteer work for at the woman's shelter know anything about that part of me and none have ever asked.

Later today Wing Walker and I are going exploring Stanley Park again, spend the rest of the day out there. It's nice and sunny and warm and I am wearing a sun dress. I am proud of who I am, not the label. The label transsexual was good during my transitioning as a diagnosis but it just don't apply any more.

Maybe I am being to brash or bold, maybe a bit of both. I might end up dead in some alley somewhere because of it, but I don't worry about it. If it happens, then such is fate. I have faced her, *fate,* many times during my life and I am still here. 

Cindy

I consider myself to have been given the privelige of living one life within 2 genders.

The 1st 40yrs as a male and a total failure.

The next 40yrs ( hopefully ) as a female and already I feel that I have won a lottery