In my Queer studies class we read a book about this drag queen and I wrote about her in my essay with genderqueer pronouns.  My professors said I couldn't do that.  If I can't do that in an LGBT studies class where can I?  I thought it was appropriate being this person lived their life as a male and female.

Does anyone use genderqueer pronouns how do others react?  I think most people still see it as very radical.

honestly, I only do it on here and even then, I sometimes forget.  Although, I agree with you about using them in an gender studies class...maybe you should do an essay on the pronouns themselves...

my professor though i had a typo and realized it was consistent throughout the paper, he then was like oh i didnt even know this existed its cool u did it but uhhh no u cant do that for a paper.

Sounds like your professor needs to step out of the academic world once in a while and exist in the real one. I'd suggest that you have the professor join susan's, where some of our rather enlightened and forthright members can have a shot at straightening out his thoughts.

Quote from: queerunity on June 01, 2008, 11:08:42 PMhe then was like oh i didnt even know this existed its cool u did it but uhhh no u cant do that for a paper.

BAD queer studies prof!  NO BISCUIT!

Sounds like your professor needs to step out of the academic world once in a while and exist in the real one

Groovy, but at that moment he/she/them/they do that, they are no longer a professor.  Sorry, college writing is done by its own rules.  They are harsh, but fair.  You are there to learn a standard way to write and argue, once you are done, and know the rules, you can bend or break them, but standards are standards, and just because a few people on a web board use terms, does not make them acceptable in academic writing. 

I get what you're saying, Tekla, and of course you're quite right in that there need to be standards in academic writing (otherwise how could people understand each other?). 

However, I find the idea of a queer studies professor being entirely new to the idea of genderqueer pronouns pretty flabberghasting.  Use of the epicene pronoun in its various permutations isn't just a web-based phenomenon.  Gendered language, the need for new pronouns and new ways of talking about gender--this is all 101 stuff in queer studies.  It shouldn't come as this big radical shock to an academic in the field.  At the very least, the students should have been provided with guidelines as to how they should deal with gender and pronouns in their writing.  It doesn't sound like this has happened.

I'm not an academic, however I'm amazed that a queer studies professor wouldn't allow their usage. But, OK, s/he is the professor and calls the shots, in which case I'd probably opt for using singular they, their.

Zythyra

Quote from: Zythyra on June 02, 2008, 05:36:40 AM
I'd probably opt for using singular they, their.

That is generally what I do.  I also use the words "one" and "sibling".   As in, "What is one to do when their sibling uses their favorite eyeshadow?"

....L

Quote from: Lokaeign on June 02, 2008, 04:16:11 AM
I get what you're saying, Tekla, and of course you're quite right in that there need to be standards in academic writing (otherwise how could people understand each other?). 

However, I find the idea of a queer studies professor being entirely new to the idea of genderqueer pronouns pretty flabberghasting.  Use of the epicene pronoun in its various permutations isn't just a web-based phenomenon.  Gendered language, the need for new pronouns and new ways of talking about gender--this is all 101 stuff in queer studies.  It shouldn't come as this big radical shock to an academic in the field.  At the very least, the students should have been provided with guidelines as to how they should deal with gender and pronouns in their writing.  It doesn't sound like this has happened.

Sorry to ask a sub-101 question, but what are the genderqueer pronouns?

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on June 02, 2008, 01:26:09 PM
Sorry to ask a sub-101 question, but what are the genderqueer pronouns?

The gender free pronouns that I use are zie instead of he or she, and hir instead of his or her. There's a whole web page of them but I don't know the url...

Z

At the very least, the students should have been provided with guidelines as to how they should deal with gender and pronouns in their writing.  It doesn't sound like this has happened.

I bet it has, every department and field of studies has a manual of style that is the absolute last word on how writing is done in that field.  For lots of people in the liberal arts it's the Chicago Manual of Style, but I would imagine that gender studies, being a sub-branch of woman's studies, which came out of English departments in the beginning use the MLA Handbook for Writers of Research Papers (6th ed.) and the MLA Style Manual and Guide to Scholarly Publishing (2nd ed.).  Its my understanding, not that I've checked it out very close, that the MLA has gone to great lengths to eliminate all gendering in MLA writing.




gender, human pronouns

NOTE: MLA's Board of Directors approved the following motion at their 1994 post–annual meeting meeting: "MOVED, that the MLA Board of Directors adopt a policy of non-gender-specific language according to CMS14, pages 76–8 (2.98) for all of MLA's documentation, publications, and communications, effective June 1, 1994."

Avoid gender-specific pronouns following nouns that could refer to a member of either sex. Usually this can be done either by changing the pronoun to an article adjective or recasting the sentence to make the pronoun plural.

Rather than:

The librarian should plan his schedule to allow time for writing.

Preferred:

The librarian should plan a schedule that allows time for writing.
The librarian's schedule should allow time for writing.
Librarians should plan their schedules to allow time for writing.

"Everyone," "anyone," "someone," "no one," and other indefinite singular pronouns may be followed by both the masculine and feminine pronouns or the singular masculine pronoun (traditionally inclusive of the feminine). The constructions "he or she" and "his or her" should be used sparingly. Recasting the sentence to the plural is still preferred.

Quote from: Lokaeign on June 02, 2008, 04:16:11 AM
... there need to be standards in academic writing (otherwise how could people understand each other?). 

I have to admit I've been around or in it off and on for years. But, I am not always certain that "academic writing" & "people understand each other" are entirely inclusive of one another, Lokaeign.

N~

"that academic writing" & "people understand each other" are entirely inclusive of one another,

Amen.

Genderqueer pronouns, aka neutral or epicene pronouns:  there are loads.  I have fallen ito the habit of using ze, hir, hirself, but there are lots of other systems.  I tend to see if there's a "house style" of using one or another in a given community and adopt it for that community.   Here's a Wikipedia page with a list of some of the more common ones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#Neologisms

I accept that modern epicene pronouns, although desirable, aren't in broad use.  In my English classes I teach the singular they should the topic come up.

Posted on: June 02, 2008, 01:53:09 PM

---

Quote from: Nichole on June 02, 2008, 01:47:31 PMI am not always certain "that academic writing" & "people understand each other" are entirely inclusive of one another

Haha!  Too right   

The preferred manual of style used by University of Phoenix is published by the APA. I can tell you that genderqueer pronouns were not covered.

Are you using used texts of the style manual, Shades?!!!  But, you're right, no genderqueer pronouns.

QuoteReducing bias in language: Gender
While you should always be clear about the sex identity of your participants (if you conducted an
experiment), so that gender differences are obvious, you should not use gender terms when they
aren't necessary. In other words, you should not use "he," "his" or "men" as generic terms
applying to both sexes. Replacing "he" with "he or she," "she or he," "he/she," "(s)he," "s/he," or
alternating between "he" and "she" are not recommended because they are awkward and can
distract the reader from the point you are trying to make. The pronouns "he" or "she" inevitably
cause the reader to think of only that gender, which may not be what you intend.
How do you avoid using "he"? There are actually several ways to do this:
1. Rephrase the sentence
2. Use plural nouns or plural pronouns – this way you can use "they" or "their"
3. Replace the pronoun with an article – instead of "his," use "the"
4. Drop the pronoun – many sentences sound fine if you just omit the troublesome "his" from
the sentence
5. Replace the pronoun with a noun such as "person," "individual," "child," "researcher," etc.
For more about this, see the APA's discussions of removing bias in language
(http://www.apastyle.org/styletips.html) and the OWL's handout on non-sexist language use
(http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/general/gl_nonsex.html).
Reducing bias

As quoted from OWL/Purdue.

About the same as MLA and Chicago Manual. I think AP may have other guidelines. One of their's I am sure of and that often isn't used by news reporters is that they are supposed to 'gender' people according to how they present with dress and make-up or lack of make-up, etc.

Nichole

Many newspapers have their own style guides, the cheaper ones just use the one that the New York Times puts together. 

And, if all these style guides are trying to eliminate the gendering of language, its going to be a hard road to get them to use a whole new set.

Quote from: tekla on June 02, 2008, 11:46:20 PM
Many newspapers have their own style guides, the cheaper ones just use the one that the New York Times puts together. 

Then we have the "style" (term used loosely) guides utilized by newspapers such as the New York Daily News and the Daily Mail Just use quotes around "everything".  >

Z

Quote from: Nichole on June 02, 2008, 11:35:09 PM
Are you using used texts of the style manual, Shades?!!!  But, you're right, no genderqueer pronouns.

No, it was a new copy. I'll have to check the copyright date, but I bought it new in 2005 or 2006 as I recall.

Basically, their idea was to remove gender whenever possible. Names, rather than pronouns, were preferred, it seemed.