Please understand this is not to elicit sympathy or pity, it's just to remind us all we have a long way to go.

When I came out at work about 6 weeks ago I was greeted warmly and assured the company had a zero tolerance policy with discrimination.  I think we all know there's ways of getting around this cleverly but I really felt this company meant business. 

About 6-8 months ago I was approached by my boss and asked if I'd be interested in managing the CAD department.  I said I'm open for discussion and that I feel I'd do well.  Over the next several months, as the job I was on was winding down, the discussions about me taking over the department continued.  My boss told me this had come from the top, they were very interested in me taking the job.

Once the job I was on ended I moved into the office.  They handed me another big project to design.  Two projects, $80 million dollars, almost equal to what the company does in a year and I was lead designer on both.  Not bad. 

After I started working on the new job the VP asked me if I was interested in the CAD manager position.  Again I said yes and again I said I felt I'd do very well at the job.  It seemed a lock I'd bet the job.

The new project I was designing required we hire new CAD operators and I interviewed them all.  Two were hired permanently.

Then I transitioned at work.

Today one of the new hires came up to me and asked me if I had heard anything about who the CAD manager was going to be.  I told him I hadn't heard anything official.  He then told me he had been given the position.  You can imagine what went through my mind.  I congratulated him as he walked away.

They didn't even have the courtesy to talk to me about it.  Trans discrimination is alive and well.  Zero tolerance is a myth, at least in my company.

I hope if this does anything it motivates us to be active in promoting fair treatment, it compels us to represent ourselves with dignity and grace and hopefully from that we will eventually gain the respect we deserve.

Before I came out I was well respected.  Since then my stock plummeted.  They let their new-found knowledge convince them I could no longer do the job I did prior to that information being disclosed.  Pretty crappy.

Please, no sympathy, no pity, but if you want to get mad as hell, be my guest.

Julie

Julie,

Thanks for your post. Its the same here in the UK. Plenty of laws against discrimination but pretty easy to get around them and they do. I am in the process of looking for another job. I went for one interview in male mode (hope you forgive me for that) and was top of the list if an opportunity came along. Applied for another post as female and said I was trans, not even an interview.

Discrimination starts even at the application stage and firms only give lip service to the law, saying one thing and doing another.

In saying that however would I want to work for someone who said one thing and did another, NO. So perhaps its a good indicator of a bad or good workplace too.

Anyway thats my rant too, lol.

Stardust

Julie:

I cannot describe how angry I feel right now!  Nor can I describe how stupid I know that company is for giving up on someone as talented as you.

No sympathy, no pity, but hope for a better day.

-Sandy

I'm so sorry this happened, Julie. Wonder if it was transphobia or sexism. Could have been either.

PO'd royal!

Having been in a management position in the past ( Boy mode of course  ),  I can tell you that management demands loyalty to the company,  but the company does not give it back. DUH this is news.!?!?

I agree with Nero, was transphobia or just good old fashion sexism.

Hang in there girl.  You know that you are good at what you do.  Just show their pompous asses.

Love,
Janet

Companiess and their crap....

Damn straight!

Rarely do discrimination laws protect anyone in any kind of situation.  In the restaurant, on the job.  The only ones that seem to be protected are the ones the laws are not addressing.  Sucks.  For instance, I laughed at my therapist (not a nice thing, I know, but surely she knew she had it coming) when she told me it's against the law for companies to not hire someone because of a disability. 

When I asked her "so, who's enforcing these laws?", she said "You have a good point"  I told her that I KNOW I have lost many job opportunities because of my hearing impairment (you don't have to always tell people you are hard of hearing for them to know it), and that there is no way to prove it.  No employee (unless s/he has an axe to grind) is going to say boo about it, and no competing candidate is going to say anything. 

In my case, I simply heard nothing back from the companies.  No rejection letters, nothing.  Only after I called and expressed my continued interested in said positions did I get some bull->-bleeped-<- story about how a candidate better qualified for the position (aka "someone that looks normal") was offered the job, and only then did I get the rejection letters in the mail.  I would be suing the company if I were  Julie. 

By being in court, the burden would be on the company to prove that she wasn't the best candidate for the managerial position.  I bet she'd win.   Then, she could take those nice earnings and start her own company.   

Aeron

Quote from: Julie Marie on June 05, 2008, 05:42:11 PM
Today one of the new hires came up to me and asked me if I had heard anything about who the CAD manager was going to be.  I told him I hadn't heard anything official.  He then told me he had been given the position.  You can imagine what went through my mind.  I congratulated him as he walked away. They didn't even have the courtesy to talk to me about it.  Trans discrimination is alive and well.  Zero tolerance is a myth, at least in my company.

Did they announce the vacancy through a formal process and you applied or what? What are the company's HR rules and policies for promotions? I'm not saying it was or wasn't discrimination, but some more information would be helpful. I spent 7 years in supervisory positions before moving to technical management and everything was spelled out, except the politics of course.

I would explore things with HR to see how the position was established and advertised. The selection may have been other factors too (I wasn't promoted once for my young age and later for my old age, but neither were covert in the reasons). HR owes you some answer about the position to establish what happened.

And I think your boss or whomever asked you about the job owes you an explanation about why you weren't chosen and then weren't informed who was chosen. I have often just asked the selecting official, "Tell me why the selected individual was chosen over the others including myself." It's fair to ask and they should be professional to answer. And it would show by their answer if it's politics or you.

Good luck.

*sigh*

Yes, it pisses me off for you as well, Julie.

But, most legislation 'protecting' jobs and against 'discrimination' is only as good as the company in question wishes it to be. There are always all sorts of ways around protection for those the management, from CEO down to floor supervisors, doesn't wish to protect. Sadly, nothing with any sort of real teeth that might rely on inferential reasoning applies in courts of law or in refereed employment hearings. 

One can cover her own behind as best as possible, do excellent and productive work, bring in huge profits for the company and they will still screw her if that is the wish of those in management, or at least those who have enough power to make their will the company policy or direction.

It's very angering that this happened to you for me. Given that, I can only imagine the pain, anger, shame and general feeling of rejection you must feel. And no genius is required to link your being 'passed-over' in favor of a new hire for the position with your informing the company of your transition.

Trouble is, in a court of law, the reality isn't real provided the defendant didn't actually place something to the effect in writing or discuss it indiscreetly with people who'd be willing to testify to that fact.



Nichole

Well, time passes and cooler thinking prevails (no surprise there!)  When I looked at things from a fact based perspective I realized it was EGO that was offended and that's all.  The facts are that I make a LOT more $ than the CAD manager simply because I'm being paid as a union electrician at supervisor's scale.  The last CAD manager was making about 65% of what I am.

Throwing EGO out of the equation... what I had was this company is going to pay me more than any other woman in the place and more than the CAD manager (who BTW still has to rely on me for direction).  If they want to pay me what they are and give me no managerial responsibilities who is really hurt by this?  They are wasting two decades of supervisory experience.  And all I have to do is design and draw, two things I really enjoy, and do so without the pressures that go with being a manager.  Really, I have it pretty good.

One concern I had was they might want to put me back in the field after I get back from surgery but the corporate VP in New Jersey said my present job will be waiting for me when I get back.  And there's the whole putting an employee in a hostile environment issue.  My union rep stated in my coming out meeting "We may be able to protect her from our members but we have no control over the other trades".  This is construction, not exactly the friendliest of environments for TG people.  So it looks like they will have to keep me where I am.  Yes, I know, there are ways around everything.  But I am the only person in the company who can design and knows CAD.  There has to be SOME value to that!

Anyway, Tuesday is my last day before I go off to surgery.  It will be interesting to see how people respond to me when I get back.  Maybe when they SEE the changed me...

Okay I'm not going to dream.

Thanks for the replies.  One day, hopefully, sites such as Susan's will be filled primarily with posts that start off, "Remember when we were so horribly discriminated against?"  Won't that be a wonderful day...

Julie

QuoteOne day, hopefully, sites such as Susan's will be filled primarily with posts that start off, "Remember when we were so horribly discriminated against?"  Won't that be a wonderful day...

Good luck with surgery Julie Marie.   

It will be a wonderful day when discrimination is well and truly in our past.

Thats a shame! Subtle discrimination is still in practice.  We ought not to be fooled by many of the anti-discrimination legislations.  If they want to get rid of you, they will find a way. 

Julie,  I am running out of words.






Oh well, you get the idea. 
Kristi

I'll put another pot of water on.  You know... more steam.  It sounds like you've been able to reason it through.  A promotion to management is not always a desired thing.

Cindi

You ego!!!! Giggles Julie!!!!!!

What you have done is huge...Your my role model.

REST, and be well

I'm glad that you have let your woman's calmer sense prevail.  Maybe now the rest of us will be glad for you.  I love to hear when someone is making more money than their boss.    Just shows who is really more educated.

Good luck on your upcoming surgery and keep us posted.  We all will be praying for you in our ways.

Much love,
Janet

Quote from: Cindi Jones on June 07, 2008, 09:31:50 PMA promotion to management is not always a desired thing.

Cindi

Definitely.  I owned my own business and the headaches of staff management and just managing the whole thing left me with little time to do what I loved and why I started the business in the first place.  Now I work where I can do what I love and leave the headaches and unpleasantries for management to deal with.

Jay

Quote from: Kristi on June 07, 2008, 09:12:57 PM
Julie,  I am running out of words.

Kristi

You, running out of words my dear?  My goodness!  I need to rest a while to fathom that. 

Julikins

The facts are that I make a LOT more $ than the CAD manager simply because I'm being paid as a union electrician at supervisor's scale.  The last CAD manager was making about 65% of what I am.

And you want to change that why?  "Hey boss, could I get a 35% cut in salary while you pile more responsibility on me?"  Call me crazy but.....

I do pretty regular work in an environment where the 'managers' get paid a lot less (close to 25%, and no health care vs. my awesome union policy) then we do.  If you wanted to bottle "bitter" at the source, look no further then them.  They have to work 'mandatory overtime' for no more money, and we happy work overtime at time and half for the first four hours, and double time after that.  ---- Guess who gets to go home on time.

Really, I'd keep the money and run.