PA House OKs anti-REAL ID bill

http://www.epgn.com/070408/1PAHouse070408.htm
7/4/2008

"Excerpt: REAL ID would set minimum standards for state-issued identification
cards. Criticism for the legislation has run the gamut — from concern about
privacy issues to religious freedoms to LGBT rights. REAL ID could pose
significant problems for transgender Americans, as there are no provisions in
the legislation to allow for the issuing of a REAL ID card to someone whose
biological gender does not match his or her outward presentation."

Yah!! I see that the basis of it is $$$, but that's fine with me. Whatever the reason, that the legislature here is against it is the important item. And the vote was pretty overwhelming on both bills! Unanimous on one and 197-3 on the other!

This looks really quite good. Thanks, Tasha.

Nichole

That's good news!

Quote from: whatsername on July 04, 2008, 01:47:57 PM
That's good news!

Anything that helps to stop the spread of fascism here in Nazi Ger--- uhhh I mean America is a good thing.

Amen to that.

I am only disappointed that California hasn't figured that out yet in this case.

Quote from: whatsername on July 04, 2008, 02:02:50 PM
Amen to that.

I am only disappointed that California hasn't figured that out yet in this case.

Figured out what?

I'm against the federal Real ID initiative, but let's get the straight poop here.

The California drivers' license was one of the models for a secure, trustable, counterfeit-resistant ID card that was thoroughly examined by DHS in designing the Real ID initiative.  The recently released Real ID regulations allow individual states to deal with transgender populations in the manner that California already has.  California only needs to make a very few changes to its drivers license to bring it into compliance with the Real ID regs and, barring any legislative/referendum/judicial reversals, will continue to support the transgender population in the same manner it has.

The bad news is that the Real ID regs also allow a state to mandate that only a persons' birth-sex will ever appear on that states' Real ID-compliant drivers license.

Federal statutes on transgender protection would be so simple and solve so much, but I don't see that happening.  It seems we must dig in and fight jurisdiction-by-jurisdiction for the foreseeable future.

Karen

As I understand it, the problem with that are cases where individuals cannot obtain the proper secondary documents to be issued a REAL ID.  Like, CA might be all well and good if you are born in CA, but, what about Texas, for instance?  I have a friend who was born there, and if REAL ID comes into effect she will have "male" on it, despite the fact that all her documents currently say female, because Texas will not issue a new birth certificate.  And in my experience, states are very stubborn about their secondary documents, so if CA really is complying, won't they have to comply there as well?  And I bring up birth certificates, because when I get my ID here, that's the primary document they use.

I might very well be mistaken, but that's my understanding at this point, and why I find it disappointing that CA is not taking an anti stance on this.

Texas will issue a new birth certificte if you have it court ordered... depending on your county...

You can take care of this after an orchi, GRS, or any non reversable surgery in the in the process of Gender reasignment.... OR if your really really lucky <and good, with a good lawyer> have it done at an earlyer point.  But it is up to the Judges in your county... its not on a state level.... so its all up to the lucky draw...

California allows the changing of the gender marker on a doctor's orders.  So you could present a Texas or Tennessee birth certificate with your birth-sex on it, and a form DL 328 signed by a doctor stating you've begun undergoing gender transition (starting HRT counts as undergoing transition,) and they'll issue you a new license with the right gender marker on it.

And the Real ID regs allow states to do this for transgender state residents.

The fly in the ointment is that other states can say what you're born as is what you is fo' evah...

=K

Quote from: LynnER on July 05, 2008, 12:25:39 AMBut it is up to the Judges in your county... its not on a state level.... so its all up to the lucky draw...

Ahhh, that must be her unlucky draw then. :\

Thanks for correcting me Karen, I'm glad to hear that CA will over ride this for their residents, I hope other states will do the same.

Quote from: whatsername on July 04, 2008, 02:02:50 PM
Amen to that.

I am only disappointed that California hasn't figured that out yet in this case.

California has committed to implementing real ID but it has no plan to actually do so.  The state had to agree to the commitment in order to get a 2 year extension on doing it.  The state is backing away from it.  It would be interesting to see the Feds try to force California into this.  After all, they need us a lot more than we need them.  California pays more federal tax than it receives in benefits.  We coul make trade with Asia problematic too.

I'm still hopeful that after the elections all of the big states, CA, PA, NY, MA, OH, IL will refuse to implement it and that the new congress will repeal the authority and the new president will as well.

I've always thought that one doesn't "defend" Republic and our ideals by violating them. Although the Cheneys and the Ashcrofts seem to disagree.

I mean how does one manage to extol reasonably the virtues of a "free and open society" while crushing the liefstyle of such a society? It never makes sense to me when these folk do that.

Nichole

Quote from: whatsername on July 05, 2008, 12:57:25 PM

Quote from: LynnER on July 05, 2008, 12:25:39 AMBut it is up to the Judges in your county... its not on a state level.... so its all up to the lucky draw...

Ahhh, that must be her unlucky draw then. :\

Thanks for correcting me Karen, I'm glad to hear that CA will over ride this for their residents, I hope other states will do the same.

If there reason for denying the change was'nt a good enough one, or if youve met the requirements since the last go... You can allways try again... Though I do recomend getting a good lawyer and all that...

Some states, CA one, will issue a "new" birth certificate if the originating state: Ok, TN, OH etc will not do so. All BC regulation is with the states, with the requirement to send new birth and death numbers to the Feds. And the current implementations mean that most people get SSns within weeks or months of their births and that that info would require changing as well. SSA has procedures in place to make those changes, involving legal evidence from a surgeon that some form of sex-changing surgury has been performed and is irreversible.

Of course with "regretters" who have surgeries to revert is it possible anymore that things such as that are truly "irreversible" unless the person operated on makes it so?

N~