my advice...stop watching horror shows.

although most surgeons still do grs in two procedures, dr bowers gets it done in one, and done nicely i might add.  that ends the surgery part of the process of transition.  dilating, for most of us, is just something we have to do if we aren't sexually active.  it's not horrible, it's annoying and takes time, but once we're completely healed...each is different in her needs.

maybe in the dark ages something you describe may have been the case, but...if that were to happen today let me assure you the doctor would not only be defrocked, he'd most likely end up in jail.

in fact, i don't even think that grs would have been performed on a child under the age of eight in the nineties, assuming the child had normal genitalia for his biological gender. i seriously doubt you could find a surgeon to do that today.  perhaps there'd been some genital deformity they tried to correct, or the child was ambiguous...so they made a guess and tried to make it look right. but these aren't the cases i think we're talking about here.

i don't know the conditions your nephew was circumcised under, or the qualifications your sister has to do such a thing but circumcision has been done throughout the ages with little harm done.  some in the medical profession recommend the procedure not based on any religious values at all, just for health reasons.  that's a procedure i think best left to parents, based on their values and their expectations.  your sister may or may not wish to take your wishes into account when making that decision, but only the child's parents have standing to make the decision.

i'm with nichole on the practical concern here.  we're a long, long way from doing grs on children who display a gender dysphoria.

It wouldn't happen today or at least I hope it wouldn't but in those days it did. The child was born intersexed, born with a micropenis and this was a part of the reassignment process and the video was produced by staff at the clinic who wanted to stop those procedures being done. The scene I described was not the entire movie but a 2 minute part of one nurses stories of what she witnessed when she started working for the clinic in the 80s. The hospital stopped doing the procedures all together shortly after this video was produced. The nurse who witnessed it was the one doing the workshop.

What I am saying is if we agree to surgical intervention when they are children this sort of thing is going to happen again. That and two or more stage processes are still required in children if done before puberty. Adults can have 1 stage surgeries depending on the procedure.

As for circumcision, it is a parent's choice and I don't think it should be. My point here was just that elective genital procedures shouldn't be preformed on children unable to consent. If you want surgery go ahead do it but the choice isn't with the parents it is the child when they are old enough because it is their body. No, my sister had no knowledge and came to me because I have studied the subject. She chose ignore my advice because she believed she would be the one to get away without problems and now my nephew will suffer. She has resolved it with me (what little there was to resolve) but she still must explain this to her son. Yes sometimes it works out but that is little comfort to those who it doesn't work out for. I am not saying that if there is a medical condition don't do it, I am saying if there isn't a medical condition don't do it before the kids wishes can be taken into consideration.

My friend just got circumcised and is loving it though he had mild complications. He did because he is jewish but his parent's didn't want to do it to him as a baby despite the proscription in the Torah. I am not against the surgery just doing it needlessly on a baby.

Yes, thankfully we are far away from doing surgery in children with GID but I think if we want to prevent these problems in the future we need to decide if these are risks that we should allow. If we allow children the right of self determination that also means we must provide for safe ways for these children to get help without being taken advantage of by society, doctors or parents.

I do agree if I had known that was going to be part of the video I would have excused myself from that part of the session. i had nightmares about it for weeks after and it still angers me. I am going to take a break from this thread though because I am finding my emotions about this overwhelming. Perhaps once I am centered again I can discuss this more logically.

->-bleeped-<-boy

Quote from: ->-bleeped-<-boy link=topic=38954.msg254668#msg254668 date=1215976459When they did surgery on boys to make a vagina early on they required multiple surgeries throughout the child's life.... proceeded to do the dilation by forcing ....

I have heard this through multiple (Intersex) sources as well though I have yet to hear it first-hand.

Quote.... circumcised my nephew

Mankind's history of genital mutilation of their children is long, varied and wide-spread and continues in many forms throughout the world. It is a most barbaric and cruel practice that should be outlawed under international law in all its forms.

Quote from: Dora on July 12, 2008, 12:22:41 PMI'm not questioning my gender based on my childhood experiences, but it seems to me that a lot of TS children who are not so adamant in announcing who they are will go unnoticed or ignored or worse, labeled mentally ill as I was.

That's essentially what I went through. Because I was uncertain, shy, ashamed, and not a total cross dresser (it's hard for "girls" to cross dress) I didn't get acknowledged until I was self injuring and said, "MOMMY, I'M A BOY" when I was 17. It took that long for me to say it and that long for me to be acknowledged. My dad says he noticed my behavior the winter before I came out... months before I said anything. He tried to tell my mom but she didn't believe him. To this day my mother doesn't take me seriously, and my dad just wants me to be cautious. My transition is going to start VERY slowly... then pick up to speed as soon as I start HRT.

Everyone has their own time table on transitioning no one's path is more valid then anyone else's. I really don't understand why we set up hierarchies of oppression. Why are we threatened by another process? Anyways Elwood I am sorry your mom isn't hearing your pain. At least your dad is supportive. Hopefully time will show her the truth. I am glad you are finding your path now. I hope you are getting help to address all the complex issues in your life.

Northern Jane- Here here, no more suffering for children based on outdated and often deliberate misinformation. Lets all grow up without those we trust causing us  pain. In fairness I have no idea what hand information mine is. It was a video that I only saw part of, a nurse who claims she was there but I didn't see her on the part I saw, I didn't talk to the child who I imagine is an adult now and I am relaying it. There however are many places where you can discover what was done to intersexed children in the name of normal genitals. I guess I am lucky my parents only scarred me mentally and emotionally. I did most of the physical scars myself.

->-bleeped-<-boy

Yeah... Thanks, TB.