doctors smoctors. At 15 I was told by mine that i was officially done growing. When i got to the car I started crying haha. At age 18 I was a measely 5' 2'' and at 19 I was 5' 3''. I recently moved across the country and therefore had my medical records shipped to me. According to them i am now (just turned 21) 5' 4''. I heard that the vertebrates in our backs can get squished flatter over time, therefore decreasing height. So, I think to some extent doing certain stretches regularly can maintain or maybe even slightly increase height.

That and my personal favorite: lying in bed all day .

P.S. Measure yourself right after you wake up rather than before bed.  You will find yourself around a cm taller in the morning.

as a kid i got into fights and wasnt bad because i didnt give up and i was tough.  only with guys though.  girls fight scary. O_O  as i got older, the guys around me did too and also got bigger and stronger.  i started losing fights pretty bad, so i started using my words.  (i consider myself pretty damn witty)  it was easy to do that because the guys that had problems with me were typical arrogant stupid creeps.  a punch is blunt, but i stung with my words.  so overall i consider myelf pretty tough.

Holy ->-bleeped-<-! I forgot about that! Disk compression!

Quote from: freedomfromyself on July 15, 2008, 11:07:39 PM
doctors smoctors. At 15 I was told by mine that i was officially done growing. When i got to the car I started crying haha. At age 18 I was a measely 5' 2'' and at 19 I was 5' 3''. I recently moved across the country and therefore had my medical records shipped to me. According to them i am now (just turned 21) 5' 4''. I heard that the vertebrates in our backs can get squished flatter over time, therefore decreasing height. So, I think to some extent doing certain stretches regularly can maintain or maybe even slightly increase height.

I don't know about that but people do get shorter as they age.  My poor mom only made it to 5'1" to begin with.  Now she's not even 5'0!  As for that stretching thing, you could stop by your local BDSM dungeon and have someone put you on the rack!  >

T tends to diminish risk assessment skills while increasing activity level and aggressiveness
leading to boys getting into a whole lot of troubles until they start maturing a bit.

Guys gets into probably 10 times the number of fights as girls do,

I'm pretty passive
generally but still got my ass kicked at least 5-6 times until I grew to 6 foot tall
and very athletic and people just stayed clear of me  . That was fine with me,
I was the worse fighter ever even though I could squat lift 5 guys.

T tends to diminish risk assessment skills while increasing activity level and aggressiveness
leading to boys getting into a whole lot of troubles until they start maturing a bit

The most frequently heard comment before some male teenagers tragic accident is  "Hey, look what I can do."

Quote from: Elwood on July 15, 2008, 08:12:35 PM

Quote from: Yochanan on July 15, 2008, 04:56:18 PM
Elwood, I've said before, you should count yourself lucky you've got a bit of height on you. How would you feel if you were four eleven, like me? You can't go around saying you'll never be a real man or whatever you said (I'm not stopping to quote you here) simply because you're small. I've learned to deal with being little. Until you accept yourself the way you are, you'll never be happy. Haven't you realized yet that physical attributes, no matter how much you dislike them, will never stop you from being a dude? Even a "normal" guy. No one but you thinks one has to be large to be a man. (And don't bother getting all confrontational with me--I'm not trying to start an argument.)

I guess you have a point, but are you done growing? I've seen tons of doctors (which is like, 3, lol) that tell me I'm done growing because I started my period at 13.

I don't know. I find it hard to be a "normal" guy without a penis. If a girl (or guy) wants to get close to me, I'd have to ruin the moment and tell them that we can't just slide into sexual merriment. I'd have to "set up" first. Because I have to put my penis on every day.

Not to be overly confrontational, but I don't recall saying that being tall was REQUIRED for manhood. I just want to be typical. As average (and boring, actually) as possible. But if I'm short, I'm interesting. In a way that I don't consider good.

I'm the same age as you (I think a couple months older), and I've been waiting for my growth spurt since I was very young. I have always been very small and never really had any hope of growing much at all. I doubt I'll get more than another inch or two, if that. I started my monthlies at 12, but I never really heard that one stops growing after that. Rather depressing.

I know you did not say being tall is required. I understand about wanting to be normal--that's basically my goal as well. I don't think being short really makes one more "interesting" than others, it's simply a physical trait. No one I've ever known would look at a guy and think, "Hey, he's short... he must not be a real man!"

As for being "normal" without a penis, of course you're not going to be normal, Elwood. You're a frigging transsexual. No transperson I've ever known is "normal" (including myself). That doesn't mean you can't live your life as the dude you are, and it certainly doesn't mean you'll never find a guy (you're gay, right?) who will accept you and your sexual boundaries.

Quote from: Yochanan on July 16, 2008, 10:32:20 AMI'm the same age as you (I think a couple months older), and I've been waiting for my growth spurt since I was very young. I have always been very small and never really had any hope of growing much at all. I doubt I'll get more than another inch or two, if that. I started my monthlies at 12, but I never really heard that one stops growing after that. Rather depressing.

I know you did not say being tall is required. I understand about wanting to be normal--that's basically my goal as well. I don't think being short really makes one more "interesting" than others, it's simply a physical trait. No one I've ever known would look at a guy and think, "Hey, he's short... he must not be a real man!"

As for being "normal" without a penis, of course you're not going to be normal, Elwood. You're a frigging transsexual. No transperson I've ever known is "normal" (including myself). That doesn't mean you can't live your life as the dude you are, and it certainly doesn't mean you'll never find a guy (you're gay, right?) who will accept you and your sexual boundaries.

I was born in March. So yeah, you might be a bit older.

The weird thing about growth spurts is that they are based on genetic potential. My cousin Josh grew six inches one year when he was in his late teens, I believe, if not his early 20's. It certainly defied what the doctors said would happen.
Well, my one question is, how small is very small? Being short is one thing, but what of your bone structure? My bones are pretty tiny... now I've heard from 3 people now that T will make my bones slightly more dense.

I used the word "interesting" in the context that it would draw attention. "Wow, he's short. Danny, you always been that short?" And such. It would be the talk of my physique, rather than something else like, "Wow, you have the biggest ugliest feet on the planet, Mr. Dapper."

I have no problem understanding that I am a transsexual and that I can't be perfect. All I want is minimal function and appearance. Something that at first glance isn't an, "OMG WHAT THE HELL IS THAT."

My sexuality is up in the air. I'm confused. See, I love men. But my sexual boundaries make it difficult. I can't penetrate him and a lot of guys won't want that vagina to go to waste. I'll be "the man with a pussy," and yes, a lot of gay guys might think that's pretty hot. Except I won't be letting anyone mess with it. I feel like I'll never find someone accepting of my physical construct. However, I could date within the LGBT community, and then people might accept me. But I always wanted a "normal" person, because "normal" people tend to have less baggage. I can't be supportive, I'm not the partner that a LGBT person needs.

Quote from: Elwood on July 16, 2008, 10:49:25 AM
I was born in March. So yeah, you might be a bit older.

The weird thing about growth spurts is that they are based on genetic potential. My cousin Josh grew six inches one year when he was in his late teens, I believe, if not his early 20's. It certainly defied what the doctors said would happen.
Well, my one question is, how small is very small? Being short is one thing, but what of your bone structure? My bones are pretty tiny... now I've heard from 3 people now that T will make my bones slightly more dense.

I used the word "interesting" in the context that it would draw attention. "Wow, he's short. Danny, you always been that short?" And such. It would be the talk of my physique, rather than something else like, "Wow, you have the biggest ugliest feet on the planet, Mr. Dapper."

I have no problem understanding that I am a transsexual and that I can't be perfect. All I want is minimal function and appearance. Something that at first glance isn't an, "OMG WHAT THE HELL IS THAT."

My sexuality is up in the air. I'm confused. See, I love men. But my sexual boundaries make it difficult. I can't penetrate him and a lot of guys won't want that vagina to go to waste. I'll be "the man with a pussy," and yes, a lot of gay guys might think that's pretty hot. Except I won't be letting anyone mess with it. I feel like I'll never find someone accepting of my physical construct. However, I could date within the LGBT community, and then people might accept me. But I always wanted a "normal" person, because "normal" people tend to have less baggage. I can't be supportive, I'm not the partner that a LGBT person needs.

My birthday's March 17. I didn't realize we were so close in age.

I'm 4'11" and I weigh anywhere from 111-118 LBs on any given day (minus 6 LBs for extra chest weight, which I don't count anymore-it's not really part of ME). I probably do have bigger bone structure than you, but I'm nowhere near average for a dude.

I really don't know what to say about the minmal function and appearance thing. You basically want what all the rest of us want. Unfortunately, it's rather difficult for us, as you well know. All we can do is take what we can get or wait until a better option becomes available. I'm resigned to it. It saddens me that you have so much trouble accepting the limitations society puts on us--yeah, it sucks, but there's nothing you can do but be an activist, really--or go into medicine and pave the way for the rest of us.

I don't really understand why you think gay men will think a dude with a vagina is "hot". Gay men that I've known aren't interested. As for dating within the LGBT community, why restrict yourself? Sure, that kind of person might be more understanding, but everyone, whether LGBT or not, has the capability to understand and be compassionate. If you fall in love with someone and he with you, he will respect you and your physical limitations. If he doesn't, he doesn't love you.

I think you generalize where you shouldn't about LGBT people. Just because one is part of the community doesn't mean he has more baggage than a "normal" person. Everyone I know--EVERYONE--has/had major emotional/psychological problems and issues in their past that affect (effect?) them to this day (which is what I assume you mean by "baggage"). LGBT don't have more baggage, it's just more obvious. And anyway, some might be perfectly happy and content, and may not need that extra support that you cannot give.

I perceived myself to be tougher than I really am this past weekend. A couple buddies and myself had a few beers, brought out the boxing gloves and went at it. I'm 5'5 150, my buddy is 5'9 220, let's just say I only got one hit in before I was thrown around like a dummie. All in good fun, but I got my ass straight KICKED. I'm gonna blame it on the beer.

Or skills.  Fighting like any physical deal is only part brute, but mostly skill.

I feel this way sometimes too. But then I realize I'm a 5'4" 150 lb weakling, haha.

Quote from: GQjoey on July 16, 2008, 02:12:25 PM
I perceived myself to be tougher than I really am this past weekend. A couple buddies and myself had a few beers, brought out the boxing gloves and went at it. I'm 5'5 150, my buddy is 5'9 220, let's just say I only got one hit in before I was thrown around like a dummie. All in good fun, but I got my ass straight KICKED. I'm gonna blame it on the beer.

Wow, I think you look taller than 5'5" in your picture.

You lose height with age a bit, but its mostly because of posture that you lose most
height as you age. Bad muscle tone really messes your posture and makes you look 3-4 inch shorter,
coupled with 1-2 inch from vertebra compression, means you can look 6 inch shorter (but in fact,
1-2 inch if you muscled up again and watched the posture).

On average, bone plates are fused at 16 in girls. But, if you had a late puberty, or
a low level of estrogen (or low sensitivity to it), it can fuse later.
But, I'd be surprised if any women, besides one with a pathological problem,
grows more than an inch after 18.

Quote from: Yochanan on July 16, 2008, 11:31:07 AM

Quote from: Elwood on July 16, 2008, 10:49:25 AMI was born in March. So yeah, you might be a bit older.

The weird thing about growth spurts is that they are based on genetic potential. My cousin Josh grew six inches one year when he was in his late teens, I believe, if not his early 20's. It certainly defied what the doctors said would happen.
Well, my one question is, how small is very small? Being short is one thing, but what of your bone structure? My bones are pretty tiny... now I've heard from 3 people now that T will make my bones slightly more dense.

I used the word "interesting" in the context that it would draw attention. "Wow, he's short. Danny, you always been that short?" And such. It would be the talk of my physique, rather than something else like, "Wow, you have the biggest ugliest feet on the planet, Mr. Dapper."

I have no problem understanding that I am a transsexual and that I can't be perfect. All I want is minimal function and appearance. Something that at first glance isn't an, "OMG WHAT THE HELL IS THAT."

My sexuality is up in the air. I'm confused. See, I love men. But my sexual boundaries make it difficult. I can't penetrate him and a lot of guys won't want that vagina to go to waste. I'll be "the man with a pussy," and yes, a lot of gay guys might think that's pretty hot. Except I won't be letting anyone mess with it. I feel like I'll never find someone accepting of my physical construct. However, I could date within the LGBT community, and then people might accept me. But I always wanted a "normal" person, because "normal" people tend to have less baggage. I can't be supportive, I'm not the partner that a LGBT person needs.

My birthday's March 17. I didn't realize we were so close in age.

I was born March 10th. Same as Chuck Norris and Osama Bin Laden's birthdays.

Quote from: Yochanan on July 16, 2008, 11:31:07 AMI'm 4'11" and I weigh anywhere from 111-118 LBs on any given day (minus 6 LBs for extra chest weight, which I don't count anymore-it's not really part of ME). I probably do have bigger bone structure than you, but I'm nowhere near average for a dude.

My dimensions are 5'2" 3/4 and about 83 lbs on average (my weight changes a lot between 79 and 85). My bone structure is "abnormally small" according to my doctors, but not so much that it causes me health problems. My immune system, actually, is better functioning than most people (that or I take better care of myself I'm not sure which).

Quote from: Yochanan on July 16, 2008, 11:31:07 AMI really don't know what to say about the minmal function and appearance thing. You basically want what all the rest of us want. Unfortunately, it's rather difficult for us, as you well know. All we can do is take what we can get or wait until a better option becomes available. I'm resigned to it. It saddens me that you have so much trouble accepting the limitations society puts on us--yeah, it sucks, but there's nothing you can do but be an activist, really--or go into medicine and pave the way for the rest of us.

I'm not really going to accept, "Oh, I have to get a phallo." No I don't. I'll use tools and packing until plastic surgery methods are improved. I don't mind having a penis for the first time at 50. I'm not going to rush it for lack of quality. But other than that, transition will involve HRT and top surgery.

As for going into medicine, it's not possible for me. I may potentially be smart enough to do it, but I don't have the ambition or the strength to handle that much school or study. I'd be the wrong person to take that journey.

Quote from: Yochanan on July 16, 2008, 11:31:07 AMI don't really understand why you think gay men will think a dude with a vagina is "hot". Gay men that I've known aren't interested. As for dating within the LGBT community, why restrict yourself? Sure, that kind of person might be more understanding, but everyone, whether LGBT or not, has the capability to understand and be compassionate. If you fall in love with someone and he with you, he will respect you and your physical limitations. If he doesn't, he doesn't love you.

A vagina is far more pleasurable than an anus because a vagina is a whole line of sphincters where the anus is just one.

I don't think I am limiting myself. Currently, I'm not dating anyone, because I am not mentally healthy enough to handle a relationship. But I never said I was going to reject a cisgendered person if they asked me. I'm just not going to be a cis-->-bleeped-<-, because no, most of them don't seem to understand.

Quote from: Yochanan on July 16, 2008, 11:31:07 AMI think you generalize where you shouldn't about LGBT people. Just because one is part of the community doesn't mean he has more baggage than a "normal" person. Everyone I know--EVERYONE--has/had major emotional/psychological problems and issues in their past that affect (effect?) them to this day (which is what I assume you mean by "baggage"). LGBT don't have more baggage, it's just more obvious. And anyway, some might be perfectly happy and content, and may not need that extra support that you cannot give.

You're denying obvious fact. A gay or trans person is outcasted from the normal part of society. That's quite a load to carry. They only know what it's like to be encroached in the LGBT community, because they have to. Coming out is an art, almost, because if you stand out on the streets of New York and come out to everyone, you WILL get shot by somebody.

Posted on: July 17, 2008, 08:25:34 AM

---

Quote from: Keira on December 15, 1999, 02:03:50 PM

You lose height with age a bit, but its mostly because of posture that you lose most
height as you age. Bad muscle tone really messes your posture and makes you look 3-4 inch shorter,
coupled with 1-2 inch from vertebra compression, means you can look 6 inch shorter (but in fact,
1-2 inch if you muscled up again and watched the posture).

On average, bone plates are fused at 16 in girls. But, if you had a late puberty, or
a low level of estrogen (or low sensitivity to it), it can fuse later.
But, I'd be surprised if any women, besides one with a pathological problem,
grows more than an inch after 18.

Then be surprised. Most of the women in my family continued growing into their early 20's. My body has not been the best as absorbing estrogen, but it's held onto enough that my periods work normally.

Elwood:

I'm probably not the best person to talk to about LGBT being "outcasts". I wouldn't hesitate to stand in the street and yell, "I'm a flaming homosexual transman," at the top of my lungs. Then again, I don't live in New York (unfortunately)--I live in LA, the heart of North Hollywood in The Valley, and if I screamed that in the street, people would probably look at me and say, "So what?" You may be right about New York. But you live in SoCal as well, do you not? Most people I've known around here don't care about sexuality or how one chooses to present himself. I don't know--maybe I've just been too sheltered.

Hah, go figure... I was born March 8th, but I think I'm at least a year older than you both. Small world.

Quote from: Yochanan on July 17, 2008, 10:55:06 AM
Elwood:

I'm probably not the best person to talk to about LGBT being "outcasts". I wouldn't hesitate to stand in the street and yell, "I'm a flaming homosexual transman," at the top of my lungs. Then again, I don't live in New York (unfortunately)--I live in LA, the heart of North Hollywood in The Valley, and if I screamed that in the street, people would probably look at me and say, "So what?" You may be right about New York. But you live in SoCal as well, do you not? Most people I've known around here don't care about sexuality or how one chooses to present himself. I don't know--maybe I've just been too sheltered.

I could say that here in Cotati (which is by Santa Rosa, which is like, ->-bleeped-<- Mecca next to San Fransisco, which is an hour from here). But I can't really say that without trouble in my hometown that's near San Diego. People are much more uptight down there.

LA is like, South Mid Cal. It isn't quite as south as where I lived.

Yes, I don't think it is over confidence though. T, and it gets worse with higher doses does it. I focus entirely on what is threatening and don't second guess myself until after. I go with my instincts. I always had a FU attitude. It just feels like I am on autopilot in conflict. I am trained in armed and unarmed combat and am capable of defending myself. The SAS's and my motto is he who dares, wins. The winner of most fights is the one with no scruples and is more aggressive. I am a pacifist now with experience.

Elwood- I am 5'4" with my boots on:) and a 28" ideal waist. I am disabled. I have fought guys way bigger, older, stronger and better trained/ equipped then me and most times I win. I don't stop and don't care. I know a guy who is 3'3" and I wouldn't want to fight him. I might pick him up but he can bite, kick and punch me all once in the same area. He is faster and uses his brain. It also depends on your definition of winning. Is it getting away as safely as possible or is it being the last guy standing after you beat each other senseless?

You are hearing a lot of negative stuff about what makes or doesn't make a guy. The only thing that makes you a guy is saying I am a guy. Who cares what you look like or wear or say or do or anything. People are idiots a lot of the time. It sounds like the "true transsexual" stuff from what I started. Some of the older guys will remember it. I was told I wasn't a man by the head of the local kids  gender program because I liked to cook. Thinking like this wears you down.

I date gay men, straight women and people who don't care about gender. Sexual situations shouldn't just happen; you need to talk with them before no matter who you are. STDs, prior sexual experience, recent testing, what you like and don't like, boundaries and for us the penis issue are all things that your partner should know before you have sex. You can find people who will respect you in bed but right now your options are limited by your age and the maturity of your age mates. I know a lot of gay guys who completely cool with me but freaked out by my genitals.

We are the same height give or take and no one ever has read me because of my height. Close friends have teased me abet briefly and I told them off.

An outcast in society? Maybe you feel like one but it isn't true in the rest of the world. Most people don't care or are just overly curious. I have been at this 10 years in a wide array of situations and except for people with power most people never guess and don't have an issue. It also has a lot to do with who you choose as your friends. As for getting shot... I have stood in small villages, mountain tops, all of Toronto, suburbs, trains, airports, government offices, misc places all over Canada, new york, florida, europe and Uganda and shouted variations of I am a trans and most people just think I am strange. Yeah the wrong person at the wrong moment in the wrong place could get me killed but anything could if someone is nuts enough to pull a gun and kill me. I am not changing me, what I believe or do just for that risk. Nor can they make me hate myself.

->-bleeped-<-boy

Then you're a bigger show off than me. You can make all the excuses you want, but height is not just the only issue. I weigh 80 lbs. This morning it was 80.4 on the scale. My bones are unusually thin, doctors have confirmed this. I have a known genetic anomaly that makes me smaller and weaker than most normal girls. Being weaker than a typical girl is bound to make me much weaker that a typical guy (it's a fact; guys tend to be naturally stronger than girls). T could help a little, and if I'm lucky, even slightly thicken my bones (but very slightly). But T will not ever make me even as big or strong as even a weak guy. My body does not retain fat or muscle. It does not retain mass.

You always talk to me like I'm incompetent and stupid. I am a good fighter. But physical ability has it's limitations. A person could easily break my arm with one hand. A person could easily knock me out of consciousness because my vitality is very low. A person could very easily pin me even though I know well and practice the skills of real wrestling. My hands are too small to get a good grip on most people, a grip is essential in good fighting. Fighting me is like fighting a 7 year old. I can bruise you, but that's about it.

By the way, you are "more manly" than me, I guess, because you'll "tell someone off" when they are rude to you. I am more of a gentle person, I prefer peace over war. I prefer the rational way of handling things. I don't say, "->-bleeped-<- YOO" every time someone says something I don't like. I don't get in someone's face when they disagree with me. I am aggressive, but I'm a passive aggressive. I don't try to make a "show" out of my masculinity. I do only what's necessary. I conserve my energy and my anger. I value my anger more and only spend my anger on things that really matter.

No one's made me hate myself. I met an amazing person who is now an androgyne who was once a transwoman. Ze went through a lot, even hormone treatments before ze realized their true identity. This person inspired me, though. Showed me that there is no shame in being queer. I still, however, don't think I'll ever have the relationships I want. I want to be a normal cisgendered guy. Gay, maybe. But cisgendered in the body would have been really nice so that my body wasn't a boundary between raw emotions.