Hi...
For quite a long time, i ve been worried about this. I am still far from full-time
haven't started HRT yet, and don't have any opportunity to go out and about
to test my passing...
So, is there any way of assuming what and how?
What should be taken special care of?
thanx

i believe you are mtf.Stop worring about passing.Full time is so overestimated.I do not believe we wake one day and say, today i will go full time and i will pass.it just happens
my experience.
1 year of laser and hrt and i could not pass as my birth gender even if i wore a suit
long hair helps( to some people)

I was kinda forced to go full time when I changed my name
but.. uhm, no..ugh, I forgot what I was going to say O_o

Just do it.  Worry about the rest when it comes along.

I found I had to move forward assuming I would never pass.  Otherwise I would never have been able to get past the indecision and would have never transtitioned at all.

As long as you try to "pass", you won't...........

Don't pass, BE

Besides, Bea Arthur isn't read as male, why should you be if you are female?

Everyone is worried about 'passing' When they are starting transition and that included myself.  But I realized that the term 'passing' is referring to hiding something. 

I developed that attitude about how I looked, that I am like all the other women in my family.  What if I was born female and still looked like I do?  What would I do then?  That was when it hit me, that I am not 'passing as a woman, I am a woman' regardless for my looks or body type'.  After that I started to look around as 'OK. What do I do to have a better look and/or body',  And you know there are a lot of women that have similar problems as I do.  Granted not all at the same time. 

So now I no longer try to 'pass', I am who I am, period.  Look around.  How many women are grossly over weight, or way too tall, or built like Arnold S. 

It is all about attitude, Hon.

Quote from: nooneinparticular on July 23, 2008, 09:37:02 AM
As long as you try to "pass", you won't...........

Don't pass, BE

Besides, Bea Arthur isn't read as male, why should you be if you are female?

Words to live by.

Janet

I also don't like the term passing but lacking a better word i used it anyway...
It's about the messega we try to pass thorugh rather than the word used, right 
Just that i really don't know what to think.... from day to day... sometimes i really
think i am feminine and the other day i get depressed about my looks
I hate my facial hair and body hair; but i am powerles to do anything significant about
it before HRT. Surely i can shave, but it appears that every single hair gets ingrown...
And my face ..... Not too masculine and yet far from female.... very tall forehead...
Well thats just me, and my obsession .... hope i finaly get on HRT and se what happens

And i have trouble with concentration and learning ... any advice on that? I feel completely
f-up sometimes

The in-between limbo sucks, and unfortunately I think it's harder for you ladies.  I'm me, totally male, totally myself and I do not pass either.  I've got a fairly deep voice and I get 'ma'am and dear' on the phone, even.  I was on vacation these past 2 weeks and I dared not use the men's room.  Not to mention that it was that awful time of month.  I did get a few looks in the ladies' room though.

I'm not on T yet.

But as the others have stated, you have to be yourself and have confidence in yourself.  Having others see you as a woman (ie passing) will come after you've been on hrt a while.  That's what I tell myself anyway, that once I've been on T a while people will recognize me as male.  I see my endo Friday and I'm hoping there will be no more delay for T.

We all have to start somewhere.  Time is our friend!

Jay, also in limbo-land

For me, I didn't make passing happen so much as *allow* it... by dressing andro, letting my hair grow and letting HRT do it's thing.

I totally agree that we are who we are EVEN IF someone realizes our birth sex. And yet, what I needed was for the world to reflect back to me who I am. I didn't have to "pass" as a genetic female necessarily, but I DID have to pass as Kate. If people saw and treated me as if I was a male in woman's clothing... well, that wouldn't have done it for me. I needed that loop of reflection, that feedback, that reinforcement that Kate exists not just in MY eyes, but within society's as well.

One of the ridiculous ironies I found though is that society DID see Kate... BEFORE I transitioned... and it was *I* that was having the problem with seeing it, lol. Not that people thought I was *physically* female, but... they knew who I was. They've been trying to tell me my entire life. What transitioning did was finally allow ME to see and believe what they saw.

Oh, I DO so love irony

~Kate~

Thank you guys for your responses...
Anyway, all that you said is true. And i will keep that in mind. Sometimes I
just feel so sad and depressed about my situation. I am very inpatient about
the start of HRT. Ever since my puberty i was desperate to stop the clock from
working against me, but i was powerless. It was devastating for me to look how
my body is going in the totally opposite direction, ireversibly. Now i feel like i finally
have a reaslictic chance of making time work for me.
On the other hand, i know that things can be "fixed" but i will barely (at least i hope)
have money for SRS, so having any other operation would be pure luxury at this time...
I am meeting endo next week and hope to have all my questions answered...

QuoteJust do it.  Worry about the rest when it comes along.

Just so, only by being the gender of self 24/7 etc can you learn, adjust and fine tune yourself to the world of your true gender.

I haven't found it easy, no way but it has taught me to look, listen and learn and at a rapid pace in order to fit in and not stand out like a Hells Angel at a mothers union meeting.  I was fortunate to find an unpaid volunteer job to help me adjust to the real world of female life at work and the goings and comings that follow and it has helped me enormously.  

Ah, well...

I just started cross dressing and I didn't care what people think. But it's harder for the MtF girls, 'cos they face a lot more prejudice. I believe you should try cross dressing in a place where you really feel safe-- where you know you're safe. Just see how people treat you. Give it a test drive. It may take a long time to pass but that isn't because of you or your body... it takes a while to sink comfortably into your female gender role.  I would giggle and all that (still do some) and I've realized that it makes me pass less. Even though I'm questioning (possibly bi or gay) when an FtM acts like a gay man he just looks like a girl...



Removed pejorative slur term - Tink

Janet,  those exact words have helped me alot through some rough days.  When i was in limbo (not passing and knowing it ie strange looks, sirs etc.) during the first year of HRT and 6 mo of "fulltime".  My close friend Jesse would often bring me back to reality and point out how many women had "masculine flaws"  and holy moly he was right.  I began to look around and realize that I didn't have to be that "perfect" woman.  All I had to do was learn to relax and be myself.  After that things started falling into place.  Some very good advice if you ask me.

Audrey 

Quote from: Audrey on July 24, 2008, 01:08:24 AM
Janet,  those exact words have helped me alot through some rough days.  When i was in limbo (not passing and knowing it ie strange looks, sirs etc.) during the first year of HRT and 6 mo of "fulltime".  My close friend Jesse would often bring me back to reality and point out how many women had "masculine flaws"  and holy moly he was right.  I began to look around and realize that I didn't have to be that "perfect" woman.  All I had to do was learn to relax and be myself.  After that things started falling into place.  Some very good advice if you ask me.

Audrey 

By being fulltime in my chosen gender, I have perhaps learned more than by just dipping my toe in.  I have learned not to constantly think about 'passing' because that would have been my own mindset at work. Instead, the question whether I look female to others is one that others have to answer and as long I do not give them reason to ask that question then all is good in the garden.

Of course, in my own mind, I look dreadful as a woman but remember, that is MY OWN MIND.  I work hard at my appearence, I have observed other women and taken tips and advice wherever I could get them to improve myself with makeup and clothes etc., such as learning that less can equal more with make-up and that following trends and dressing to age helps to reduce risk of being 'clocked' as a ->-bleeped-<-.   In the main, I get by untroubled 90% of the time however the remaining 10% is consequently more difficult to deal with.

Oh, I almost forgot, if I ever get onto a hormone therapy programme, maybe life will improve further but I live in UK and funding for such treatment is hard to obtain, yet I live in hope  

I think that full time was just something that I grew into. I always cross dressed more or less discretely, sometimes I dressed in an openly feminine manner. I usually have my nails done, so the only difference between full time and not, was the addition of a wig, as I'm bald on top, and makeup. Everything else was already in place.

By adding the wig and makeup, the overall look just made more sense to other people, so it was an easy transition. I'm not saying anything about being passable. I'm not concerned about that to a degree that it bothers me. I do what I can with makeup, hair, and clothing. My vocal skills are a great asset.  I do not have the resources for FFS and SRS. I'm planning SRS in 2009, and to me, that is more important than FFS.

I don't know if anyone really passes all of the time. I know that I really don't, but I'm alright with that. I find it more important to just go on with my life. I've also found that attitude has more to do with being accepted by other people than anything else. Most people have been supportive towards me.  My goals are related to my life; passing makes attaining those goals easier. In order to get a job, if I were to pass better, perhaps I would find it easier to get a job. Still, I know that I WILL find a job, although it may take more time. The goal is not passing. The goal is to live my life in the correct gender role. 

Well, I thought that I was ready to go fulltime, but after running into someone that I had not seen since 03 and he still saw me as male I am beginning to think that it's all going to be for nothing. Oh well, death will come eventually. *sighs*

Quote from: Laura91 on September 11, 2008, 09:58:21 AM
Well, I thought that I was ready to go fulltime, but after running into someone that I had not seen since 03 and he still saw me as male I am beginning to think that it's all going to be for nothing. Oh well, death will come eventually. *sighs*

Don't give up!

Passing can be a cruel tease for awhile. I tell people it's a bit like a florescent light bulb flickering on... we usually pass, then don't, then pass more often, then don't... it takes awhile to become consistent sometimes. It seemed for me whenever I TRIED to pass, I didn't... then I'd give up hope and suddenly get maam'd, lol. It drove me crazy in the beginning, but I eventually just learned to let things unfold as they would...

~ Katie Marie ~

I had the same problem at first but then I realised that I KNOW myself better than anyone because I have lived with my face all my life and no matter what I do to it, make-up, hair etc, I still see a man in the mirror.  Nowadays, I would say that 90% of the time I am treated as a female and the other times don't get to me as bad as it did in the beginning.

I think what I am trying to say is that unless you get on with it your life will grind to a halt and maybe you will never achieve your dream. I must have looked quite dreadful in the early days of transition and any nervousness will show as if you wore a circus clown outfit but in time it got much easier and I learned more about female life and I am now totally at ease with myself even if I may be thought of as a man in a dress at times.  I cannot be responsible for other peoples opinions and I never waste my time thinking about it any more 

I remember when I was a bit more androgynous in my younger days, still wearing girl's clothing but no makeup and still referred to as my old name, and people would still refer to me as a girl, or if I was with girlfriends, "ladies."  Maybe you need to surround yourself with other women and begin socializing and learning from them?  That way you have all the mannerisms and things down pat, and after working on your look some you won't be questioned.

But, we are our own worst critics.  I've been told time and time again that "you don't look it" referring to being trans, but I gotta tell ya, when I'm out and about I'm usually second guessing myself simply because it's something you don't ever really get over, at least for me.

So don't beat yourself up over "passing" because nothing positive will come from it.  And I agree with the above, people notice nervousness.  Just be cool, smile, go about your business, and when you do get the feeling of "oh god do people know?" just ignore it because I've found that if they're just a stranger, they aren't that important to me anyway.