I have been hanging around various boards for the last few years and I am amazed at the number of people who come out as TS, on the road to transition and even surgery, and then seem surprised and disappointed when their wives want out of the marriage.

I don't get it. Unless you were right up front and totally honest going in, pointing out that this is a possibility, how could anyone expect her to stay? Heck, you are not only changing the ground rules but the whole damned game so it is only reasonable that she might not want to be part of the new game. If I was the wife I would be SOME upset!

Can somebody explain this to me?

Quote from: Tasha Elizabeth on July 27, 2008, 07:19:04 PM
maybe katie or kiera or somebody else might want to take a shot at it...

For once, I think I'll keep silent.

~Kate~

I can't think its a surprise, but that doesn't make it hurt any the less.

I married my spouse because I loved her then and my transition didn't change that, although I knew and accepted that for her, it may have changed a lot.  I told her I would support her decision, and even help as much as I could, if she decided to leave.

I'm lucky that she decided to stay with me and that things are going well, even if the relationship has changed dramatically.  I think that has to be an even bigger surprise for me!

hugs & smiles
Emelye

Because some people love unconditionally. Some don't. Some will love you even if your appearance and everything changes. It's only natural for one to hope their spouse is one of those people.

It's not a surprise, it never should be. And I don't think it ever is. Rather than surprised, I think they're shocked by their great loss.

I personally dont think its a surprise, it takes a deep, special bond to keep people together or a situation where one partner depends solely on the other, then it becomes a matter of dependance.

My own ex made it clear from the start that she was not a lesbian and had no intention of staying in a relationship with a nother woman.

My divorce went before the court on the grounds of "Unreasonable Behaviour", which was further classified as undergoing gender reassignment.

Buffy

I would be shocked if she hated me for transitioning since she is paying for it, but not shocked to split up.

Jane, I know you don't need my take on this, you've prolly read it before. And, similar to Kiera, I see no need to discuss it here if I haven't already.

Nichole

I believe that when you start to transition you should go into it with your eyes wide open. There shouldn't be any surprises with relationships. I can only think of family (blood family). I would think that your siblings and parents etc. should accept you. It should be unconditional. As far as your marriage, well, if you married her or him under the pretense of being heterosexual or homosexual then you have changed the dynamics of the union. I will use my family as an example, my partner married me because I was a man. She is heterosexual and you know you can't change your orientation. So we are just friends now. We are still married only for economic reasons and we are older and don't really care about dating. So, if you go into transition and you think that you can change your wife/husband, think again. They can understand about transexuality and they may still love you, but they are not going to have any kind of intimate relation with you unless they are prone to being bi-sexual. I do believe that this is put, maybe better phrased, in all of the boards that I have been on that deals with ->-bleeped-<-. There shouldn't be any surprises, none what so ever.

I'd rather not comment on generalities, but I would say this much. The love my wife and I share is unconditional I would go as far as to say that we hold each other above friends and family. That goes for parents and siblings as well. It would've shocked me if my wife left me due to my transition. She has in fact lost more friends and family than I did over my transition, her Father, one Sister (and her husband). Strangely the two children of that relationship accept the situation with no issues at all (one is a senor in high school and the other is in college).

Personally I think most transgender marriages are fail because one partner is completely inflexible and unwilling to see life from the perspective of their partner. If both partner were willing to be flexible and see the point of view of the other then you'd have one of two outcomes. 1. Adjustments might be made by one or both and the couple would be able to remain together. 2. Both would understand why the relationship won't work. Shock plays no part in either case. Though I don't believe it is unreasonable to think at the beginning that your partner will remain with you only to have a different result in the end.

Of course you could get lucky (like me) and identify as a lesbian while your wife's perspectives change only to find that she really identifies as bisexual.

Ttfn

I know if someone did such a drastic change in a relationship with me I would leave them. I fell in love with their lie, not who they really are.

It's not a discrimination thing or anything. It's just they are not who I thought they were, so I'm going to move on. Ya know?

So yeah, little weird so many would be surprised.

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on July 30, 2008, 12:36:02 AM
I fell in love with their lie, not who they really are.

Oh I dunno, it probably depends on the person. I might be much more open and content now, but otherwise I'm not all that different (personality-wise) than who I was before transition. I don't think she fell in love with a "lie" at all. Although to be fair, SHE says I'm a totally different person, but I just don't see it.

Still, I promised her things like an active hetero sex life, children someday, being a guy for her... and that just didn't happen. It's those *practicalities* that are decaying our marriage moreso than any "you're not who I thought you were" problems. We love one another, we get along well still, but if we both want a sex life, kids, and that male/female dynamic in an intimate relationship... what do ya do?

So much for my keeping silent, lol...

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on July 30, 2008, 08:28:31 AM

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on July 30, 2008, 12:36:02 AM
I fell in love with their lie, not who they really are.

Oh I dunno, it probably depends on the person. I might be much more open and content now, but otherwise I'm not all that different (personality-wise) than who I was before transition. I don't think she fell in love with a "lie" at all. Although to be fair, SHE says I'm a totally different person, but I just don't see it.

Still, I promised her things like an active hetero sex life, children someday, being a guy for her... and that just didn't happen. It's those *practicalities* that are decaying our marriage moreso than any "you're not who I thought you were" problems. We love one another, we get along well still, but if we both want a sex life, kids, and that male/female dynamic in an intimate relationship... what do ya do?

So much for my keeping silent, lol...

~Kate~

Others see change where we do not, much like we do not notice our hair growing, but others make comments that it is time for a hair cut.

As for me personally, the physical attraction and the emotional attraction are of equal importance.

Perhaps that makes me vain. So be it. But if suddenly someone was to change their physical appearance, and with it, start expressing a huge part of their likes, dislikes, and personality that have been suppressing since before I met them, I would feel that this person has completely changed, and thus have become someone I was not familiar with.

This may change with married couple who have been together for many years, but in all the cases I have read about, they sexual attraction dies, and becomes a "best friends living together" sort of relationship.

I don't agree that partners leave because they fell in love with a lie.  Personally, unless someone's keeping score and marking off achievements (one of them being marriage) I can not fathom that someone would LIE about the sex they identify with.  Either the partner knew in the beginning which gender his/her partner identified  with (or maybe both genders), or there was some 'discovery' on the part of both partners along the way.  As was the case with me.  Not knowing IS NOT the same as lying.

I got divorced 3 years before coming out as trans; transgender issues were not even on my radar and the marriage broke up for other reasons.

Still, the one person who has reacted the most strongly, and the most negatively, has been my ex. 



Jay

Quote from: Aeron on July 31, 2008, 08:48:45 PM
I don't agree that partners leave because they fell in love with a lie.  Personally, unless someone's keeping score and marking off achievements (one of them being marriage) I can not fathom that someone would LIE about the sex they identify with.  Either the partner knew in the beginning which gender his/her partner identified  with (or maybe both genders), or there was some 'discovery' on the part of both partners along the way.  As was the case with me.  Not knowing IS NOT the same as lying.

It's all semantics at that point

Quote from: Tasha Elizabeth on August 01, 2008, 09:18:19 AM

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on July 31, 2008, 11:00:57 PM

Quote from: Aeron on July 31, 2008, 08:48:45 PM
I don't agree that partners leave because they fell in love with a lie.  Personally, unless someone's keeping score and marking off achievements (one of them being marriage) I can not fathom that someone would LIE about the sex they identify with.  Either the partner knew in the beginning which gender his/her partner identified  with (or maybe both genders), or there was some 'discovery' on the part of both partners along the way.  As was the case with me.  Not knowing IS NOT the same as lying.

It's all semantics at that point

how come people who never have experienced something always seem to know the most about it?   

Because I'm an opinionated little stinker who insists that she knows more than you 

Seriously though, experience isn't the only way to gain wisdom. I am capable of gaining knowledge through the observations I make.

QuoteIt's all semantics at that point

I can see why you might think that it's all semantics. But, I'm not sure I would agree.

I'm in my late 30s and married. Up until a little over a year ago the thought that I might be trans-anything never occurred to me. Denial is a very powerful thing and I had managed to go all those years without allowing myself to reflect on any of my thoughts and feelings that would have enabled me to really recognize or acknowledge myself for what I am. As I look back on my life now, I am amazed that I never saw it like I do now. But that's the nature of denial I guess. I know there are probably many ways to define the word lie. To me it means that you are being knowingly deceitful. When I got married I was not being knowingly deceitful to my wife. I didn't really "know" about the issues I was facing and therefore had nothing to deceive her about.

Now is a different story. In the year or since I came out of denial, I have known and have not told her. Now, it's a lie - one of omission. But, going into the marriage I didn't knowingly deceive my wife - I didn't lie.

What her opinion will be when I come out to her, I don't know. It's her right to decide that for herself and I don't expect her to automatically agree with me that I didn't lie going into the marriage. I can only hope she won't feel that way or see it that way. Ultimately, she's her own person and is entitled to make up her own mind.

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on July 31, 2008, 02:09:56 PM
This may change with married couple who have been together for many years, but in all the cases I have read about, they sexual attraction dies, and becomes a "best friends living together" sort of relationship.

For us, the relationship always WAS a "best friends living together" sort of relationship... which we tried to coerce, bludgeon, shoehorn, and otherwise mutilate into an ordinary hetero sexual marriage for 18 years.

It's not that I became a different person than the one she married, it's that I couldn't become the person she needed me to be.

~Kate~

The reason that people break up are almost legion.  As Leo Tolstoy said in his vast and sweaping treatise on family life, Anna Karenina, (matter of fact, it starts it off, its the first line of Chapter 1);

Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way

Sometimes people just grow apart, sometimes one grows and the other doesn't, sometime they don't grow and expected to.

If one person, the TS, has a right to say "this is not my life, I want another" then who could blame the other in that relationship for taking upon them the self-same right?


As for why... people who never have experienced something always seem to know the most about it?

One of my favorite quotes, (ascribed to noted American philosopher, Yogi Berra) time tested and battle proven is that:

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; in practice, there is.

By which Yogi was saying its real easy when you are sitting in the stands eating popcorn to play the game, its a lot harder behind the plate.