This all started a few weeks ago. I was at a friends house at a party. There were several people I knew but more I didn't. My friend introduced to me to an acquaintance of his who is also trans. I politely introduced myself and asked how she knew my friend. We chitchatted briefly before she suddenly asked what kind of work I had had done. I've never been asked something like that so I stuttered that I hadn't had anything 'done.' She then proceded to tell me about everything she's had done along with the surgeons who did them. I understand she was proud and probably very happy to feel better about herself, but near the end it was more like listening to someone talk about their prada bag and their gucci shoes. She then asked me when my SRS was scheduled. I informed her it wasn't currently scheduled and that most likely it will never be scheduled. She gave me a puzzled look, like I had just spoken greek to her. She asked me why, and I politely explained it was personal and not really anyones business but my own what I do to my body. She looked indignant and walked off.

Now this isn't a one time incident, there have been several occasions where I've had to explain myself to a bunch of people why I'm not having SRS. One of the most insulting and hurtful comments was at a support meeting when I explained I wasn't getting srs and an older transwoman said, 'tsk, what a waste.' I was extraordinarily hurt by that remark, like my life and happiness and being content with my body is a waste. That I need to go through an expensive and dangerous procedure in order to mean something.

I understand these are just the remarks of people who in the grand scheme of things don't matter, however that doesn't lessen the hurt I feel when I hear them. I've been on hormones longer than most of those people. I've had more time to adjust to being myself. I feel indignant when they make all that seem like a waste of time. Thanks for listening to my rant.

Quote from: c4lypso on August 04, 2008, 06:50:48 PM
'tsk, what a waste.'

Best answer I can think of is, "If I'm happy, it can't be much of a waste."  Of course their attitude might be that your misery at not having surgery would be required to validate their misery.

Lisbeth

SRS is a very personal matter and a private choice.  It is no one's business when or if you have SRS.  If you choose to that also is only your business.  Your true friends will like to know when you decide to have SRS, but only because they care.

For someone you do not know to be miffed that you are not going to have SRS is total beyond me.  It is noneya if you ask me.


By the way what do you mean you're not going to have SRS?  >>> Janet laughs knowing she really does not care if you don't.  It's Your choice. <<<  >

Janet

Well I had an orchi a while back and at the time I wasn't sure if I was going to have SRS/GRS. However afterwards I felt very at ease with myself and felt a lot better overall. I don't hate my penis, I don't even dislike it. It gets in the way sometimes but to me it's a piece of me that I actually kind of like. Philisophical and physiological arguements aside, thats how I feel. I don't mind having one (except at the beach) I'm glad I feel content.

c4lypso, it seems to me that people should be glad that you are pretty happy with your equipment. I mean, surgery IS risky...and people are not made with a cookie cutter (no pun intended).

I like Ellie's answer.

I'm male (FTM), but I don't want bottom surgery...I don't have a vagina anymore; I think of myself as a boy with two holes.

I like to think that it makes me versatile. More than that, it makes me ME.

You go, girl. More power to you!

Thanks it's just that I felt so belittled by the entire thing. I don't normally care for the most part what others think of me, they can either like me or hate me. However it still doesn't mean it can't hurt. Does it?

Quote from: c4lypso on August 04, 2008, 08:18:37 PM
Thanks it's just that I felt so belittled by the entire thing. I don't normally care for the most part what others think of me, they can either like me or hate me. However it still doesn't mean it can't hurt. Does it?

Well, I somewhat idealistically like to believe that other people only hurt you if you let them, but humans are social animals who typically enjoy having the approval of other people--at least SOME other people. Which implies that we are usually not immune to other people's negative judgments, either.

I know what you mean, that you don't normally care what others think but that you can still be hurt by what they say. I think that it takes practice to hurt less when people say nasty things. But for me, it really depends on WHO is saying negative stuff. If it's strangers, I may get nettled for a couple of minutes, but that's about it. If it's someone I like and respect, then it does bother me. And if it's an in-between situation--if I think I'm in a reasonably safe place with people I expect to be supportive (yes, like a support group)--then it will probably matter more what strangers say. We go to support meetings to be supported, yes?

You can take this person's comment of "what a waste" (and other people's comments, maybe) as a sort of backhanded compliment, I guess, but that's a bit of a stretch. I think that the gal at the support meeting was out of line. Well-meaning, perhaps; but she should be more careful with her words, no matter what she thought. The other one, who just walked off, might have felt awkward, as if you were judging her choice to "go all the way" with surgery. Even transpeople get caught up in the gender binary; perhaps that is what was going on.

I think that once you get a little more confidence, you won't feel belittled anymore. In the future, some comments or reactions might sting a bit but not make you feel small. You will probably have to actively work on your reactions and feelings, but at some point you'll arrive at a good place. Or at least a better one.

You're not less of a woman because you have a penis and have decided to keep it.
I'd think that transsexuals of all people should understand that. But perhaps I am a bit naive.

It's not that what's between your legs makes you a man or a woman. It's what between your ears. And that, as I hear it, is all woman.

First and foremost, SRS is expensiveand like all surgeries has risks invoved. For some of us out here, unless we have a rich uncle dying somewhere or we win a lottery we are SOL on SRS.
Second, I would like to meet these people for just 2 seconds just to make them blush  into giddiness. I am IS (as some say to the extreme). Even though I was declared a boy at birth because of this silly thingy called a penis, I am actually a woman with a penis. I have a partial vagina and a clitoris intertwined into the base of my penis. I suffer regular periods without the bleeding (thank God for miracles). I have B cup breasts and am not on hormones or anything like it. I have a very very small adam`s apple and very little hair growth on my body (except my face). For the sake of my wife and my marriage I decided to keep my penis. I mean what would SRS offer me anyways except opening my vagina more - it only goes so deep and then feels it is blocked from going inside, but has full feeling. Ok, now bring them gals on and let them make their comments to me. I dares them!!! LOL
I am no less a woman than the gal next door or my wife even. I just happen to have a pet that I take with me everywhere. As we say, how many can go out on the town and secretly but successfully conceal their strap ons?? LOL
Chins up gal, you are a woman and that's all you are. And as long as you feel good about yourself then that is all that matters, always. Friends come and go, but you are always you and will never leave yourself no matter what so that is who you should lean on, yourself. There are people out there who understand.
               Kim   

Quote from: PolarBear on August 05, 2008, 02:28:31 AM
You're not less of a woman because you have a penis and have decided to keep it.
I'd think that transsexuals of all people should understand that. But perhaps I am a bit naive.

It's not that what's between your legs makes you a man or a woman. It's what between your ears. And that, as I hear it, is all woman.

You would think we would be best understood by another transsexual, but that's like saying I'm Christian, so I would be best understood by other Christians.  That works, until of course, you behave in a way they don't like, and that's where you suddenly part company.

So, in our transsexual world, unfortunately, each individual has built a model in their mind of who is,  and who is not a transsexual.  Some of them are bound to accept you totally, while others mentally ban you for your having a penis.  On the other hand, it's my experience that you can also be banned from womanhood by many gg's and gm's for owning a vagina that was fashioned from male parts.

So, if I have a vagina that is made from parts of my used-to-be-a-penis, I can be considered by many for all eternity, to be a man with an artificial vagina, even though it is fashioned from the same embryonic tissues as a gg vagina.

And then, there are the intersexed, or people with AIS, many of them women who at birth were given no choice.  "I know the baby is XY, but it would be sooo much easier on her in this life if......", and then she is transported magically into womanhood by a well-meaning doctor, and the nod of a trusting, scared parent.

The question, sometimes, is not how to convince people, or to even educate people of who you are.  Sometimes, the best teaching comes through showing people who you are by what you do, and how you behave.  I have a tendency anymore to ignore what 'people-who-used-to-know-me-as-mike', think.  What they think has nothing to do with who I am, and in general, other things they think don't jive with what I think either.  These are also the people whom I've let go.

In this life, it's really nice to have a group of like people who help support, but in the grand scheme of things, you are on your own, and have to make your own way in the world.
I suspect that if at some point in your life you stepped out the door to represent yourself to the world for the rest of your life as your true self, and you are making it work, you will be alright.  One thing can cripple you, though.  If you cannot let go of those that you want to keep, but who want to keep you only as their second or third class friend, they will spiritually weigh you down.  Don't let them drag you under, 'cause you know what they'll say later??  They'll say, "mike?......mike who?.......oh yeah....too bad.  I knew him before he got all fuc*ed up".  ......And then they will forget, and go about their more important business.
At that juncture, you can form a new group of friends. I have.  But I never share my ts existence.  I expect at some point in time, some will find out.  When that happens, I will probably have to let some more go.

Funny, I have song lyrics going in my mind, but they're changed around from "love the one you're with", to "Be with the ones you love"

That works for me.  To them, I am forever, Bev (or Beverly if I'm being chastised), or Dad (Mom in public), or Nanna.
Be with the ones you love, because they form the other side of this obvious equation: = They love you.  And they see your true self. 


Bev
Morning thoughts from an old fartess.

Looking back I think it was the fact that I was in a support group meeting and the comment was said. My defenses were down and I wasn't expecting something like that. I've found that in a few groups that I've been to, I was ostracized because of my age and appearance. I've found new groups where I feel much more comfortable and more people within my age group. However I really enjoy talking with people older than I am due to their experience. So luckily I've found two groups within my relative area that I can go to. It still leaves the issue of how do I deal with this experience if or when it happens again. I mean other than saying well I'm sorry you feel that way. And would something like this warrent leaving a support group.

Just tell them it is none of their business. period. Life is not a waste if it is lived well.

When I first started out surgery was not important to me at all but transition was and it worked well for me. I had to deal with others who wanted to label me a certain way because my motto was not "Surgery or death!". Ignore them, they are not worth your time.

Watch THIS, Calypso.

What she says applies to ALL people, not simply nons. Such questions are rude and uncalled for, no matter the questioner. Being trans oneself doesn't give one a license to be personally intrusive. 

As for what is said in "support groups" apply those same rules, don't talk, they've nothing to comment about.

Nichole

You should not of been treated rudely. The person was trying to understand you and had no bearing on what is important to you. They can only create in their mind using their experience as to what your life is like. Not wanting the surgery puts you in an even more exclusive group. Questions of sexual relations get more confused. As does living in a binary world. The world is slowly changing but not as fast as the imagination. You will get better at dealing with certain types of people I hope it does not drain your patients.

Quote from: Nichole on August 05, 2008, 04:59:38 PM
Watch THIS, Calypso.

What she says applies to ALL people, not simply nons. Such questions are rude and uncalled for, no matter the questioner. Being trans oneself doesn't give one a license to be personally intrusive. 

As for what is said in "support groups" apply those same rules, don't talk, they've nothing to comment about.

Nichole

While it is funny, I don't really agree with her in terms of people asking questions of you. Yes it sounds hypocritical however where I draw the line in terms of what questions I feel are okay to ask and what aren't is when the questions insinuate that my choices in my life are the wrong ones. If someone asks me about being trans, I'm going to politely respond to them and try to educate them the best I can. I've had a few people ask me what my previous name is and I've told them. They've never used it to regard me by or anything like that. I'm really big on openness; for one thing it allows me to control what people know about me and how trans people in general should be treated. On the other hand it opens them up for conversation as well. The information I gave them has little relevant importance, but I've made them think it is important. There is a good chance they will divulge information of their own.

So in closing I've found it's good to keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. I've had a few occasions where someone tried to blackmail me, only to be found I could easily blackmail them. Kind of a backhanded way of being friends with someone I suppose.

I would just like to say, from your avatar --- I thought you were all girl  -- so what it you have an extra 15 ounces of flesh.....

I would have never known.

In addition -- you are quite pretty.

Daisy

Quote from: daisybelle on August 07, 2008, 04:01:18 PM
I would just like to say, from your avatar --- I thought you were all girl  -- so what it you have an extra 15 ounces of flesh.....

I would have never known.

In addition -- you are quite pretty.

Daisy

Thanks

I was in DC with some friends who'd never been in the city and I took them to Chinatown and all the usual sights. We saw the Smithsonian and The Mall. I even took them up to Congress. Afterward we went to Georgetown and walked along the canals. I love the city. I'm just glad I don't live there.

Quote from: c4lypso on August 05, 2008, 07:46:42 AM
It still leaves the issue of how do I deal with this experience if or when it happens again. I mean other than saying well I'm sorry you feel that way. And would something like this warrent leaving a support group.

I've been giving this some more thought...I mean, you DO expect a certain amount of acceptance and support from a support group. Only you can decide whether one or two SOBs spoil the group for you. It could be that if you stay, they'll even warm up to you. (Truly, who really knows why jerks say what they do? They may be dogmatic, insecure, even jealous. Maybe a little more, er, exposure to you can dispel some of these feelings.)

As for responses, you can develop a few standard responses to a number of foreseeable circumstances. You can have the polite "I'm sorry you feel that way" response, the huffy response, the downright sarcastic and somewhat rude response, etc.

I have a few standard verbal responses, some of which I've never actually had to use. But I have them in case I need them, and they range from polite to don't-->-bleeped-<--with-me.

Maybe we should start a thread titled "Snappy Comebacks." Here are a couple of mine.

"Are you a LEZBIYUN?" (Asked because I was a butch-looking female.)
"No, I'm a Californian."
"No, but I HAVE been to Greece."
"Not the last time I checked."
"Why, are you looking for one?"
"No, I'm a f***ing ->-bleeped-<-got."

"Are you a boy or a girl?"
"Yes, I am."
"No, I'm not."
(I like the above two. You can say them very politely, even with an "I'm sorry" thrown in with the "no" response, and it can confuse folks for a couple of seconds and give you a chance to get the heck away from them.)
"Are those the only two choices?"
"When I figure that out, I'll let you know."
"Does it matter?"
"Why, thank you! I think so too!" (They'll wonder if you misheard them.)
(For brief rude encounters, any non sequitur answer can work if it implies that you completely misheard the speaker(s). Tell them, no, you come from Colorado. Tell them, yes, I graduated last year. Tell them that you hate Hondas and only drive Cadillacs. Look at your watch and tell them what time it is. Invent your own.)

There's another one I ran into recently that seems tailor-made for just about any situation involving closed-mindedness or bigotry. It's mouthy, and I've never used it, but it could work well if other, possibly nicer, people are around to reinforce the message:
"Oh, I'm so sorry...I didn't know there were any BIGOTS in the room."

Sometimes you just need to laugh it all off and imply that the other person is barbaric or outdated. "Oh, my, what a QUAINT notion! How long have you had it?" Or, "What an int'resting idea! But don't you think you should replace it with a newer model?"

Practice with your friends if you want to. If nothing else, it'll make you laugh a little and might make you feel more in control next time some jacka$$ gives you a hard time.