Today I had the custody hearing in my divorce proceedings.  Marco went with me.  Actually you can read his account of our day in the FtM forum.  It was not a good day to say the least. My ex and his creepy attorney were there spewing all kinds of lies, some of which the judge believed, so I ended up completely raked over the coals.  I get to see my kids two days a week for 3 hours each.  Whew Whew!  On top of that, I have to pay child support to the tune of $644.00 a month.  That would be because my ex cheats on his taxes and completely lied about his income.  I just hang on to the hope of what comes around goes around.  He'll get his someday.  I'm not saying I'm going to do anything to him.  People that live their lives dishonestly like that will eventually get what's coming to them.  The thing that has me majorly stressed is that I already live pay check to pay check.  I don't know how I am expected to live when I'm shelling out $644.00 a month.  I don't have any problem supporting my children and I'm not trying to shirk my responsibility, but I don't think I spent $644.00 a month on them before my divorce! Then after all was said and done and the judge had called for recess, my ex's father darted at me with his finger pointing and started to say some nasty thing, and my attorney jumped in right in front of him and yelled at him, then the bailiff took him out of the court room.  While I was completely infuriated by the judges ruling, it was quite comical that he made such a fool out of himself.  Well, I've got to go for now...will type more later.

Bye,
Pam

I'm not an SO,but wanted to say hi anyway.
That really sucks about your lying ex.
How can your kids ever accept this with their father's lying and trying to make you and Marco look as bad as possible? He's really doing a great disservice to his children. My parents divorced and it is really hurtful and confusing when one parent is constantly bad mouthing the other. It's almost like you feel you're betraying the bad mouthing parent if you don't agree with their lies. And betraying the other one at the same time. I really feel for you and Marco as well as your kids.
Nero

Hi Nero,
          Thank you so much for posting to this.  I thought it was going to sit with that big fat 0 forever!  I know exactly what you are talking about when you say that the kids feel like they are betraying one parent for the other.  I know that is exactly how my son feels.  He idolizes his dad and I know he loves me and wants to accept mine and Marco's situation because he has such a huge heart.  But he is so torn with the things that his dad says.  His dad refuses to refer to Marco in the masculine sense.  And he is always referring to me as a lesbian.  I know that unforturnately until my son is older and feels that it is o.k. to disagree with what his dad says, it is going to be very hard to get through to him.  As for my daughter, she has never had a good relationship with her dad.  She doesn't mind disagreeing with him at all.  Who she feels she will be betraying is the rest of the family.  My sister (her aunt) and my in-laws (her grandparents) have pretty much disowned me.  Those people are very important to her and she has seen that they have ostrisized me, and she doesn't want that for herself.  Also, she is not as willing to try to accept it as my son is.  She is almost 15 and desperately wants to be portrayed as "normal" to her friends.  Although her friends would never need to know about Marco's past (he passes perfectly as a guy), she is afraid they would.  I'm sure my ex-husband would make sure of it.

Thanks again for the post!
Pam

I feel for you Pam, I really do. Which is one of the reasons I keep my mouth shut. Lets just say I would not do well in your situation. ^*curtsey*

I'm sorry I haven't responded before, Pam. It's just as a divorce lawyer I see this stuff all the time (not, I'll admit, with your particular circumstances that often). There is no short term good news. There is long term good news in that if you keep a positive attitude toward their father to the children then in the long term they will see who the better person is. But god that has to be hard to do. I can advise clients that until my face turns blue and very few actually can manage it. Those who do are rewarded long down the road, but the road is hellish to travel down.

I'm sorry to hear it Pam. It's a damn difficult situation to be in.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,
       Thank you so much for good advice.  Even though I cannot stand my kid's dad, I have made a commitment to myself that I will not bad mouth him to the kids.  I know this will pay off later down the road.  I can't stand that my ex uses such guilt trips on the kids, and the whole family makes them feel like the kids are betraying them if they were to even try to understand my situation.

Take care,
  Pam

Quote from: MarcosGirl on May 30, 2006, 01:45:50 AM
  I can't stand that my ex uses such guilt trips on the kids, and the whole family makes them feel like the kids are betraying them if they were to even try to understand my situation.

Hi Pam,

People tend to despise being manipulated.  Though they may not say anything to him initially, they will eventually make a stand against him if he keeps it up.

Melissa

Melissa,
    I agree with you, but my kids are 11 and 14 and are unfortunately easily manipulated by his intimidation tactics.  He makes their lives peaces and cream if they act like they don't want anything to do with me, but the minute they stand up to him and try to stick up for me, he makes their lives a living hell.  I can't say that I would do much different when I was their age, but I'd like to think I had more of a sense of loyalty to my mom.
    I think all I can hope for at this point is that when they are able to see the situation through adult eyes, they will see him for what he is.

Thanks for posting!
Pam

Quote from: MarcosGirl on May 31, 2006, 10:13:27 PM...
his intimidation tactics.
...

^{*blinks twice*}

I will hazard a guess that he will drive them away sooner rather than later.

I agree with what Melissa has said.

Pam,
Your children were not present for this proceeding I hope.
I'm so sorry to hear you are treated so dredfully. I can not begin to imagine what you must have felt like.
Please know we are hear to read what ever you need to say.

I know you need a smile to cheer you up.
Smiles,
Peggiann

Peggiann:
           No, my kids were not present for this hearing.  I'm sure my ex would love for them to be, because he whole-heartedly believes that what he and his fanatical family are doing is the right thing by God...utter insanity.

           One of the things that bugged me the most about that proceeding was that Marco was there to support me, and my ex's snakey attorney opened his arguments with gesturing to Marco saying "I don't know what to refer to it as, he, she, or what?"  My blood was boiling!!!

Thanks for posting!
Pam

That kind of rudeness would be grounds for a complaint to the Law Society here. You might want to check with your bar and see if it is. I don't know what the code of conduct says there, but here it requires courtesy.

Dennis

Courtesy should be the thing that is required and the Attorney that spoke that way and Judge that allowed such behavior should be delt with by the bar in your state. Even your Attorney for no objecting to it either I would think.
It could possibly lead to new hearings in all matters. Maybe?

Smiles,
Peggiann

Peggiann and Dennis:
            When I met with my attorney the other day, he had indicated that he was very bothered by the statement and that he was definitely going to bring it up in subsequent hearings.  He thinks that the judge possibly might have missed it or misunderstood it, but he said that he would make sure that this would be dealt with in the future.  I'm sure this won't be an isolated incident, my ex's attorney is a real snake.  My attorney said that behavior like that is going to be their ruin.

Thanks again for the support!
Pam

Hi Pam:

Sorry it is taking me so long in posting lately. 

This is so heart breaking for everyone involved.  As I have stated before, the kids are the real victims in all of this.  While we as adults have choices; to stay, to leave, to fight, to give in, etc, the kids are linked forever biologically with their parent.  It is shame that your ex doesn't realize this and that for everyone the kids should come first, no matter what.  Making the kids choose between one parent or the other is the crime here.  I agree with Dennis, keep a positive attitude when dealing with the kids. (I know it's hard, especially dealing with the ex).  The long-term benefits will be enormous. 

As the kids mature, try your best to educate them with your positive attitude, information, printed materials, web sites and/or support groups for kids.  There are few around, if you need some let me know and I'll try and find some for you.  If they have email - keep in touch with them, sometimes this is easier when circumstances are strained and difficult.  Talk with them every chance you get.  Don't run the ex down (that'll be hard), show them you are the better person here and are the one that is really looking out for them.  Like I said, the long term benefits will be enormous and worth it.  This game is called patience, and you know something, women play it better than the exes.

Keep your cool hon in this game, as the stakes are high.  Though your blood may boil, keep your cool.  That said don't let them run over you either.  The comment (slur) by the ex's lawyer should be addressed.  Personally, when I hear something like that, I call the person on it.  It's a "Positive Space" issue.

Keep talking Pam.

Gill

Pam, take a look into Parental Alienation Syndrome.

Melissa

Thank you, Gill, for your reply.  My attorney said that he intends to address the rude comment at our next hearing in August.

Melissa...you hit the nail on the head!  I went to that link and read about PAS and that is exactly what is going on here.  My ex comes from a long line of abusers, and it is not shocking in the least bit to find that his current behavior is also considered abuse.  I printed a bunch of literature and am going to take it to my attorney (hopefully tomorrow) and tell him that this is the direction in which I want to go.

Thank you both again!

Pam

Glad I could help.

Melissa