Wish could grow extra skin for FTMs!  I have heard about how there are surgeons who put a small bloon under skin to grow out more skin for surgical purpouses... wish was possible for FTMs.

Quote from: KJS MOM on August 05, 2008, 05:02:13 PM
I am a married woman to a heterosexual man (my child is TG).  He was so "ashamed" at not being circumsized that he did it as an adult!! (before I met him, I think he was in his early 20's).  He is a baby boomer (55) so, yeah, I guess it is a big deal to some guys.  I had 2 sons and had both circumsized...doctors said for health and cleanliness issues and their fathers were....now I wish I hadn't done it to my youngest (19) who is transitioning to a female.  Apparently the SRS goes better with more skin to work with....   

Hi KJS MOM

I'm sorry you arrived on this topic while we were having a humorous moment....

Please don't blame yourself for the decision; you were clearly pressured by those around you, some of whom should know better and given alternative advice..

Although it will have an effect on SRS for your youngest, it's not the end of the world, and in many cases the depth achieved in SRS can be greater than that of genetic women.

What is done, is done....

Look to the future, your continued love and support is much more important than a little bit of skin....



Chrissty

I don't miss my foreskin because I don't really want a penis, either.  If I had a male child, though, I don't think I could allow him to be circumcised as an infant without a real medical reason.  I would like him to start out as an intact male, and allow him to decide on any alterations to normal, healthy body parts at a later time.

Circumcision should be treated similarly to other surgeries that alter normal, healthy body parts: at the very least, the person having the surgery should be able to express a desire for it, and therefore should not be an infant.

I'm from the US and , although its not something guys discuss, uncircumcised penises are weird. Most girls think the same thing.

This day and age, the circumcised  image is pushed through porn movies.. and guys compare it to the porn cock. And I think its the same for girls. Before they even see a cock, they usually see it in a porn or something ... and they expect a guys cock to look like that.

I think it's strange to call something "weird" when every normal genetic male is born with one.  The opinions of most girls should not determine what happen to babies' genitals.  As for porn and comparing, I don't think porn should determine what happens to babies' genitals, either.  One problem in the US is poor sex education (I've experienced it firsthand); I don't know in how many schools this extends to not explaining the natural state of the penis, but I hope it is not too many.  Anyway, I don't want to get into a heated argument or anything, but maybe we have a cultural problem here.  Why should anybody expect that another person's healthy body be surgically altered?  I don't want to have a big argument or anything, but isn't that something worth thinking about?

I hope nobody takes this too personally.

For a lot of people its a religious deal, and for those who have it as part of the religion, its not likely to change.  And for the record most of the girls I've ever heard express an opinion prefer circumcised men.  But that's not like a scientific survey or anything.

Quote from: IHPUN on August 12, 2008, 09:28:31 PM
Why should anybody expect that another person's healthy body be surgically altered?  I don't want to have a big argument or anything, but isn't that something worth thinking about?

SRS?

Oh slaps.  Tough routine and stuck the landing.

Quote from: tekla on August 12, 2008, 09:49:10 PM
Oh slaps.  Tough routine and stuck the landing.

*Nod* Thanks, Kat.

N~

Quote from: Nichole on August 12, 2008, 09:39:24 PM

Quote from: IHPUN on August 12, 2008, 09:28:31 PM
Why should anybody expect that another person's healthy body be surgically altered?  I don't want to have a big argument or anything, but isn't that something worth thinking about?

SRS?

I'm not sure exactly how to respond here.  When you say SRS, I think of a procedure generally performed on adults who express a strong desire for the procedure, not on non-consenting infants.  A decision to transition and have SRS is made by an individual against strong societal pressure, not for an individual without any input from him, based on societal pressure.  Routine infant circumcision is completely different from sex reassignment.  I am advocating against involuntary surgical modification of healthy body parts based on somebody else's idea of what they should look like.

Regarding surgical procedures performed at birth on intersex persons (which might relate to SRS and social expectations), I've heard that a lot of XY intersex people later identify as male, even if they were surgically modified in infancy to look female and raised as girls.  Here, socially-motivated involuntary genital modification can cause problems worse than the ones it was supposed to fix by making it more difficult for a person to adopt his desired gender role.

Regarding expectations that an adult has had SRS, I support non-op transsexuals in resisting this pressure.  People should do what feels right to them, and they should be given a chance to figure out what this is.

I'm a little tired today, so I hope I didn't misunderstand you.

I answered the question with one. Your question didn't specify children, merely Why should anybody expect that another person's healthy body be surgically altered?

Why the circumcision? Well, were I to be with a man I'd prefer it be cut. For the rest, I'd imagine that a parent's decision would be fine with me. Were I Jewish or Muslim it would be automatic.

No misunderstanding as far as I see. Your opinion is fine. I have a diff'rent one.

N~

Yes hygiene, religion, culture, and the fact it is done under hospital care. It saves the mother some work. A careless person could let odor build up. It could increase chance of transmitted disease. It used to be 90% done in the US now it is about 75%.

If you are not a big sports nut your life has limited locker room exposure. I could count on one hand how many times I needed to be naked in front of strangers.

Quote from: lisagurl on August 13, 2008, 09:48:39 AM

If you are not a big sports nut your life has limited locker room exposure. I could count on one hand how many times I needed to be naked in front of strangers.

Not much of a sex life, eh? 


Q: What is the technical term for an uncircumcised Jew who is more than 8 days old?
A: A girl

Quote from: lisagurl on August 13, 2008, 09:48:39 AM
If you are not a big sports nut your life has limited locker room exposure. I could count on one hand how many times I needed to be naked in front of strangers.

Yeah, the few times I've had to navigate men's locker rooms, I pull it off fine by just seeming really shy and keeping something in front of me at all times. Still makes me nervous, but guys in locker rooms (except at gay gyms) are definitely not gonna want to look at each other.

Dennis

The gay gym in SF is its like kindergarden Show and Tell all over again.

I was circumcised as a child and I am extremely glad I was. I don't think I've ever heard a girl actually say she prefers an uncircumcised penis.

Quote from: Jamie-o on August 02, 2008, 03:44:40 AM
I was recently watching the Bris episode of Queer as Folk (U.S. version), which got me to thinking.

I was under the impression that, at one time at any rate, there was a social stigma attached to guys in the U.S. if they were uncircumcised.  Is that true, and if so is it still the case?  Or, has locker room culture changed as the popularity of the procedure has diminished in recent years?

And for those of you in the rest of the world, is there social stigma attached to being circumcised, or is it not something people even think about?

I've always said that if I had a son, I would leave that decision up to the father, since he would know more about the potential consequences than I would.  But since I would now be the father, I figure I ought to try to find out what the whole story would be for him at school, etc.  Besides, it could potentially make a difference in decisions I make for future surgery.

No, there's the false impression that being uncircumcised somehow leads to illness and cancer, which is totally ridiculous. Circumcision is mutilation and other than in Jewish circles and the US, it's not widespread at all. It exposes the soft flesh of the glans to friction which creates callousness and deadens sensation. I wonder why don't we just lift stupid taboos and teach proper hygiene instead of circumcising.
If a son of mine *wanted* it, it's definitely his decision, but it's irresponsible to make it for them at birth.

FallenLeaves: Other than aesthetic concerns, I don't see why a girl would prefer one over the other. That stuff retracts, you know?

One thing I hate about phallo: no foreskin. It completely gives it away and makes it look totally fake.

Quote from: soldierjane on August 18, 2008, 06:10:31 PM
Circumcision is mutilation and other than in Jewish circles and the US, it's not widespread at all. 

Not only in the US. Worldwide, both Jewish and Muslims practice it. Since historically both religions came from arid regions of the Middle East where water was scarce, in such an environement it originally was an hygienic solution.

Quote
That stuff retracts, you know?

In my own experience a lot of women actually find this facinating ... and some can't even resist playing with it! 

LLL&R

Maebh

Quote from: Maebh on August 19, 2008, 03:57:05 PM

Quote from: soldierjane on August 18, 2008, 06:10:31 PM
Circumcision is mutilation and other than in Jewish circles and the US, it's not widespread at all. 

Not only in the US. Worldwide, both Jewish and Muslims practice it. Since historically both religions came from arid regions of the Middle East where water was scarce, in such an environement it originally was an hygienic solution.

Actually, if you count that it's not widespread in Western Europe, Central and South America, Canada, Australia and Eastern Asia, that's a big chunk of the world. Even Southern Africa is not too circumcised. And you are right, I forgot the Muslim population... boo jane!