Republicans Have Handed Democrats a Winning Election Issue
By David Morris, AlterNet. Posted August 20, 2008.

http://www.alternet.org/environment/95469/

The Republicans keep handing the Democrats a winning election issue. And the Democrats keeping refusing to accept the gift. I hope the beginning of the formal election campaign knocks some sense into them.

The gift is the Republicans' continued opposition to extending renewable energy incentives. Eight times since the fall of 2007, a Republican-threatened filibuster has thwarted a vote on extending these incentives. They will expire at the end of this year -- and with that expiration, many believe the solar and wind industries will come to a grinding halt.

Never second guess the Democrats ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

QuoteDemocrats keeping refusing to accept the gift

They are not stupid. Just like ethanol solar and wind have serious problems that do not make them the answer. Lobbyists push the issues one sided without listing the problems. It is throwing money away and could create worse pollution and water shortage, environmental and noise and wildlife issues without making a dent in the energy problem. The public been duped by marketing.

OK, what happened to my Lisa? Who put Ralph Nader behind her avatar!!

Love it. Right on again, girl ... er, Ralph? >

Actually there have been a number of breakthroughs when it comes to solar including a rather powerful solar cell that you can just roll up and take with you. Where this type of technology needs to be implemented is where it would not impact what is already there, namely dense population centers and airports.

Hawaii is going with algae for some of their power needs, there are some large farms already in place.

I love the push for change in the energy sector, it is driving a lot of technology to change and adapt and I love technological evolution.

Quoterather powerful solar cell

I think solar cells make great sense in applications that the costs (including all factors environmental etc.) of other power sources are not practical.  However making solar cells is a very energy and water intensive process that produces pollution. The life of the cells at best will only produce twice as much energy during its life time as it took to make. The sun only produces so much energy per square foot a year. You could only collect that much even at 100% efficiency. It would take a array bigger than your car just to power the A/C in your car. 

The thing is, these sources of power may not be efficient now, but that is technology.  We learn and make it better, so if we don't try something, we cannot improve it.  Sure it may not be that good now, but we are trying.  If they drop all these newer sources of energy, the power companies will just go back to Coal and Oil and never look for alternatives, which would be horrid.  It means we would be MORE reliant on oil than we already are, and that would just suck.  I would rather see a little inefficiency at first to help the overall picture.  We cannot succeed if we don't try.  Sticking to old tech and old ideas isn't going to help us in the time to come, for when we run out of what we need, we will not have had the technology to make it better.  We need to actually try, or we will get nowhere, trial and error is key to discovering new tech.

Quotetrial and error is key to discovering new tech.

Not when it goes against the laws of physics. I agree we need to do research. People fund research in hopes of getting a return on risking that money (economics).  Fusion? 50 years so far and billions but no success but physics tells it can be done. Photo electric cells? 60 years and billions with clear limits of its abilities.  Nukes? 50 years of working plants with political problems and a waste issue that does not have 25000 years of proof it works. Fusion could answer the waste problem but never count your chickens before they hatch. We would need 1000 new nuke plants to create all the energy for the oil and water we use. McCain wants to build 50 of them they only take 10 years each to build. They also do not last more than 50 years. Right now we import all nuke fuel as well as the material to make solar cells. No matter what solution is workable we still have to import it making us in the same situation as oil. Do not forget the air quality issue and the next problem "water".

Quote from: lisagurl on August 24, 2008, 11:00:44 AM

Quoterather powerful solar cell

I think solar cells make great sense in applications that the costs (including all factors environmental etc.) of other power sources are not practical.  However making solar cells is a very energy and water intensive process that produces pollution. The life of the cells at best will only produce twice as much energy during its life time as it took to make. The sun only produces so much energy per square foot a year. You could only collect that much even at 100% efficiency. It would take a array bigger than your car just to power the A/C in your car. 

What you said used to be true but is not any longer. Expect announcements within the next year from some big and not so big companies. Plus the universities are sitting on a couple of things that will not go public in the near future (which is their right, by contract with those that work for them).

QuotePlus the universities are sitting on a couple of things that will not go public in the near future (which is their right, by contract with those that work for them).

My former job was bringing technology from Universities to main stream industries. It takes years to get successful demonstrations and then market.

Getting lab projects working in real life environments requires a lot of shake downs and many times is abandoned in favor of more economical solutions. Success rate is not great. But it is a start.

QuoteExpect announcements within the next year from some big and not so big companies.

Yes marketing, people listen to dreams and try to buy them until they find out the problems. Think drug companies. Stuff that works is keep secrete to give a company an advantage then they only will lease it till the patent runs out.