Hey guys, I haven't been as active as I used to be, but it's only for this first week of school. I will continue to be here once I get my time management under control.

I've got an important issue though that I feel like I need to share.

Things have become increasingly difficult for me to handle here at home. No, it has nothing to do with my coming out to my family. As far as my family is concerned, you can bring up an issue, they'll think about it for about a day, then everything goes back to the way things were before as though nothing ever happened.

Which is honestly where my main problem with them comes from. They NEVER change no matter what you tell them. So nothing ever changes here, we just sweep our problems under the rug and pretend that bulge in the rug just isn't there.

I thought I could handle living with them just ONE MORE YEAR before I move away to Cali, but I really can't take it anymore. Just recently I got yelled at by my dad for being "selfish" I suppose, when it wasn't selfishness that motivated me, it was ignorance. How was I supposed to know he was being a jerk about not sharing the car because he's going in for surgery tomorrow? No one ever talks about ->-bleeped-<- here. Yes, I'm very concerned for him, I'd be a heartless bastard if I weren't but it's just not fair to be treated like ->-bleeped-<- is all I'm saying. My dad yells at me whether or not he's 'stressed' about having an impending surgery....If I can't tell the difference whether or not he's angry at me or just worried about something else and taking it out on me....What does that say about him, really? I get upset a lot myself but I NEVER take it out on others, especially when it's not their fault cause CLEARLY I know from firsthand experience that it makes people feel like garbage.

Then there's my sister. Oh, she's changed alright but for the worse I would say. Yesterday I was having a belated bday thing at my parents place, and she kept insulting me and ordering me around in front of all my friends, and this is my YOUNGER sister needless to say. Maybe in the 1% chance I lose my cool and treat her the way she treats me, she yells at me for being such a jerk and I'm just like "wtf you can dish it but you can't take it??" It's just not fair that I have to take her garbage and keep it inside, she can abuse me all she wants but I can't do anything back. Part of that is because I care about her and don't like treating her the way she treats me, and the other part is that she's just so mean now that she might stomp in my face if I ever tried.

Point is, I've decided to move out. I can't afford it and neither can my family but the way I see it, I want to be independent of them. I just got a job at my school today, and I have other non-academic events that constantly keep me on campus, and I've been saying even before school started this year, "Why don't I live on campus again?! It would be so much easier if I did."

Home is within 10 miles of school I suppose, but because of all the traffic/overpopulation/idiot drivers on the road it's such a hassle to be going back and forth especially with gas prices. We have 3 cars at home, my mom uses one because her job is farthest and it's not on her way to be dropping any of us off. My dad uses another car and I am forced to carpool with him since he works at my school. My sister uses...what used to be my car because she has no other way to get to school. But I've been doing this carpool garbage with my dad ever since sophmore year and it's more trouble than it's worth. Whenever I used to try to take my car he'd be mad at me, even if I'd be staying on campus later than him or whatever so I was trying to save him the hassle of him having to pick me up. At least before, I could take my car if I needed a break from him and waking up at 6 am to get to school when I had a 3 pm class. I rarely ever complained about all the sacrifices I was making to let mom get that extra half hour of sleep before going to work since she had insomnia, or the sacrifices I had to make in not getting my own parking permit and having to buy temporary parking passes when dad was being a jerk, or the sacrifices in getting less and less sleep when I really didn't have to..... I RARELY complained, and I guess it's because I don't complain people take advantage of it and don't realize I could be a much bigger jerk about things if I really wanted to be.

In short I'm going to apply for a loan and hopefully move into one of the apartments on campus. No, I won't have a car but they have a car rental system at school so I'll have one if I need one. No, I can't afford it, but that's what the loan is for. Better I move in on campus where they pay for my utilities rather than the apartments off campus I've seen that can go for 2600 a month, when my student salary is only 400 a month at best. My family won't bug me much on campus, they didn't at all when I was a freshman even though I was within driving distance.

I have too many reasons to move out, and not enough to stay. I can list them later, but I feel like I've made this message long enough as it is.

I feel like I've definitely made my decision..... but my question to you guys is, How do I tell them?

I'm going to apply for housing and loans ASAP but if I manage to get the apartment I'm looking at, I'm sure it will be wiser to tell them I'm moving out...and not when my friends show up to help me move my things out.  I just don't know what to say to them, they'll take it badly either way. I'm 21 though, I need my space, I need my mental stability, and I need to be an adult.

Responses/advice would be greatly appreciated.

I know just how you feel dude.

At one time, I was feeling so pressured, so ganged up on in my household.  I felt like my mom and sister sided against me.  However, when my sister moved out, things got much better.  We all got closer.  I was hoping I would still be pissed off by the time I left for college, but sadly, I got really, really close to my mom for the last 6 months I was at home, so this transition has been very hard for me. 

I think it's a great idea to live on campus.  I almost wish I would have, but our dorms are WAY expensive.  There are brand new, so the payments are $891 a month.  I pay $649 for my FULL apartment that's all mine, not just a little bed with 3 room mates.  If the dorms would have been cheaper, I would have done that.  The on-campus apartments are even more expensive. EEK.  If you really can't stay with your family any longer, I'd say go for it.  Student loans are paid off AFTER you graduate, so if you finish your degree, you will most likely get a good paying job to make the payments.  That's how I see it anyway, which is a lot of the reason I changed my major to BBA in Finance. What's your major?

As for how to tell them... I'm not sure what to say.  How I would do it is probably very different than what most other people would do.  Me and my mom have a more best friend relationship than a mother daughter one.  I'd just say to her "So, I decided that I'm going to live on campus..." then when she said "WHAT?!" I'd say "Let me finish before you say anything..." then give my reasons and how I'm going to make it work.  I'm not sure if that'd work with your parents.  So, alternate way.  I'd sit them down, and say "So...what would you say if I said I wanted to live on campus?"  You could even say that you want more of a college experience and that you feel trapped in your current household.  Be sure to give reasons why.

If they refuse to let you move out, at least you told them what's going on in your head.  Ask them how to work out these problems and tell them that you are smothered and annoyed.  Then, try to work it out.

Quote from: Brady on August 28, 2008, 08:35:34 PM
I think it's a great idea to live on campus.  I almost wish I would have, but our dorms are WAY expensive.  There are brand new, so the payments are $891 a month.  I pay $649 for my FULL apartment that's all mine, not just a little bed with 3 room mates.  If the dorms would have been cheaper, I would have done that.  The on-campus apartments are even more expensive. EEK.

Wow that sucks. The apartments on campus here are about $3000 a semester, and off campus apartments are $2600 a MONTH. Plus I have no transportation to get to campus besides my own two feet so the house couldn't be far. The newest on campus apartments are $800 a month which is cheaper than off campus but still too much. I can do $3000 a semester. I don't make enough to pay monthly bills on campus or off campus, plus the $2600 a month off campus would come to $24,000 or so by the end of the school year whereas the loans for $3000 a semester may only come out to $10,000 in the long run. I can handle that, especially since I don't have any other loans or debts besides freshman year housing.

Anyway, my parents aren't like your mom, Brady. If I said "I'm moving out" they'd say "....huh?" then I'd explain and mom would go " I'm such a bad parent" and dad wouldn't say anything. It's not that they'll stop me from moving out, they'll just think I'm doing it cause of them and be all depressed about it. Truth is, they're half the reason I'm leaving but I can't tell them that lol. Especially not mom, despite her flaws she's the only one I love most, I'm a momma's boy and proud of it, but she'd take me leaving the hardest.

I could tell them the other part of the reason that I'm moving.. 1) I need to focus on school it's really important too me (the other half is all this home stress is distracting and already affecting my schoolwork and it's only the first week.... but I won't say all that)  and 2)I want to make things easier on them with our commuting situations. If I leave, each of them will have a car, and no hassle. (Which is only half a lie, I'M irritated with the commuting situation, they're stressed and won't admit it, but I'm leaving more for me than them).

That's all I could come up with that might not hurt them as much as the ENTIRE truth. Minus the stuff in parenthesis.

When I was a senior in high school I came out to my mom as a lesbian (step one in my process). Things got terrible, I ended up moving out at the very beginning of my senior year of high school. While it was hard for me, I was working full time and going to school ,it was well worth it. In the end I felt better about myself and the pressure of work/school was nothing compared to living at home. I say go for it if you can get a loan. Sanity over money!
In your case you can buy happiness!
Myles

I don't have any statistics, but I bet most college students do not live at home.

If you are going to college wouldn't financial aid cover it?  I believe a lot of students use it to pay for school and living on campus.

As for telling your family... I suggest just talking to them when they are togethor so you don't have multiple conversations and questions.  Tell them life at home, lack of transportation, etc. is affecting your studies and you want to do the best you can in school.  Just reassure them you plan to visit often and stay in touch but you need to have access to the school ad resources available, which could also include after hours study groups.   Every parent wants their child to have the best education so use yours as a way to soften the blow of wanting to move out.

Quote from: Devlin on August 29, 2008, 03:35:34 AM
If you are going to college wouldn't financial aid cover it?  I believe a lot of students use it to pay for school and living on campus.

My dad is my financial aid. Because he works at my school, I get free tuition. Tuition is a helluva lot there, so it helps a LOT but even if you get free tuition, you still have to pay for room and board. I did freshman year and I will have to again now. The only difference is freshman year I knew ahead of time I was going on campus so I was able to sign up for FAFSA. Right now school has just started and I thought I could live at home another year to save money, so I didn't sign up for FAFSA so now I'll just have to make do with a loan.

Quote from: Devlin on August 29, 2008, 03:35:34 AM
Just reassure them you plan to visit often and stay in touch but you need to have access to the school ad resources available, which could also include after hours study groups.   Every parent wants their child to have the best education so use yours as a way to soften the blow of wanting to move out.

Lol I will have to remind them I cannot come visit unless one of them picks me up, I only plan on paying for those rental cars if I need groceries or something else vitally important. That's great advice though, thank you. I feel like this is just like when I'm sick, I know how bad it hurts but I have to play it up a little to make people understand that I'm in pain, lol.

Quote from: tekla on August 29, 2008, 12:01:05 AM
I don't have any statistics, but I bet most college students do not live at home.

I'm sure they don't. Only a small percentage of us out there commute because it's cheaper, more convenient for us, whatever the reason. I did not live at home freshman year and life was great. I've lived at home the last two years and life has sucked. One of my friends lived 2 hours away and she commuted anyway though most people would normally move on campus from that far because of the horrible traffic here.

Quote from: myles on August 28, 2008, 10:33:37 PM
When I was a senior in high school I came out to my mom as a lesbian (step one in my process). Things got terrible, I ended up moving out at the very beginning of my senior year of high school. While it was hard for me, I was working full time and going to school ,it was well worth it. In the end I felt better about myself and the pressure of work/school was nothing compared to living at home. I say go for it if you can get a loan. Sanity over money!
In your case you can buy happiness!
Myles

Yeah things aren't terrible because of my being trans, but because of everything else. They still call me "she" "sister" "her" "[birthname]" at home and it makes me cringe, but it's like my coming out never happened, they just pretend like problems don't exist like I said and it drives me crazy. If they can't cope with the fact that they're all too lazy to clean the kitchen now and then, how did I ever think that I was going to be Nathan at home.

I try to remind myself that because I have free tuition, I won't be as in debt as all my friends,which helps soften this money blow a bit. Sanity over money indeed dude, I just wish I'd have realized it two years ago  Thanks for the reminder, I was weakening in my resolve when I woke up today. If I don't leave, nothing will change, I'll have to use study time to run around and pick up little cousins from elementary school for aunts, have people get angry at me for not doing more chores at the worst possible time [like when I'm taking a take home midterm...].... I'd almost forgotten all of that. Thanks bro

Man, swap your Dads surgery with my stepdad losing his position as manager and we have the exact same family (almost) XD I even have the sister being really crap to me! (my older one though)

I wanted to move out for sure too but  I firgure I will get top surgery faster if I have a job and dont have to pay bills... but if you personally feel that way and dont need to save money, then by all means get away from your family. Although that whole "she, sister, daughter,[insert birth name here]' thing is VERY annoying...but last time my mom and I were out in public, a guy and a couple of people keot callin me "he" , and she was gettin confused and surprised, but thens she startin callin me "he" too, but only in public, which I found interestin. I guess she got better, but if your family isnt, then get away from them because extra anger is not worth it, or maybe it is to an extent?

Only about 50% of 'the college experience' comes from the class stuff.  The other half is the networking, the idea sessions, the connections you make, the people you meet and all that.  I'm sure that a commuter student is not getting the full deal, which is a shame.  I know I gain as much, if not more, out of class, then I did in class - which was not inconsequencal by any means, still....

Quote from: tekla on August 30, 2008, 12:27:08 AM
Only about 50% of 'the college experience' comes from the class stuff.  The other half is the networking, the idea sessions, the connections you make, the people you meet and all that.  I'm sure that a commuter student is not getting the full deal, which is a shame.  I know I gain as much, if not more, out of class, then I did in class - which was not inconsequencal by any means, still....

I REALLY feel that I HAVE to reply to what you said tekla. I concur wholeheartedly, from experience. I lived on campus freshman year, then commuted sophmore and junior year.....I missed out on a LOT as a commuter that I had so much more access to when I lived in the dorms. It's harder to find out when events are going on, clubs are meeting, study groups, all that jazz when you have to go home at a certain time or you can't stay on campus all the time. There is a VAST difference between being a commuter and a dorm resident, and the dorm resident gets all the more benefit.

Quote from: Jack Daniels on August 29, 2008, 11:36:21 PM
I wanted to move out for sure too but  I firgure I will get top surgery faster if I have a job and dont have to pay bills... but if you personally feel that way and dont need to save money, then by all means get away from your family. Although that whole "she, sister, daughter,[insert birth name here]' thing is VERY annoying...but last time my mom and I were out in public, a guy and a couple of people keot callin me "he" , and she was gettin confused and surprised, but thens she startin callin me "he" too, but only in public, which I found interestin. I guess she got better, but if your family isnt, then get away from them because extra anger is not worth it, or maybe it is to an extent?

Yes, things will not get better. Honestly, the pronouns don't bug me as much now as they may a month or three from now, it would just realllllyyy be nice if people started addressing who I am. Nobody ever changes around here though besides the pronoun thing, at least not for the better. They don't see anything wrong with anything they do. If it was just me and mom, I might be tempted to stay, but I really need to leave.

Kestin:  LOL, nice.

I applied for housing this morning, paid my deposit check....hopefully I can go to the office tuesday and get the paperwork signed then start applying for the loans and letting my parents know move out day is around the corner.

I felt that way too. I except I said, "Just another couple months with them." But since I came out to my mom, my life was a living Hell. My parents stopped acknowledging me as their child. We lost the intimacy we once had. We're a family that hugs and gives kisses and says, "I love you" regularly and "Goodnight" every night. But things like that stopped happening. It put my family in pain every time they saw me. Their little girl each day started looking more like a boy. They couldn't stand it. I moved up here with my dad... things have been much better between me and my Southern California family. They miss me, so they worry more about missing me than my transition. My mom, however, is still horrified. She calls it a mutilation of my body. I admitted that it is, but I expressed that not mutilating my body is a mutilation of my person, my identity, and my "soul," so she calls it. I told her that if I do nothing, I will die from the inside out. It's something I must do.

I will be getting a job soon because I want to take responsibility for some of my needs... Living with my dad has had it's ups and downs, but it hasn't been nearly as hard as it was in Southern California. My life wouldn't have moved forward if I lived down there. Everyone in that house is unemployed...

Sorry, no advice. I'm just a dumb college boy.

Quote from: Elwood on August 30, 2008, 06:59:18 PM
I felt that way too. I except I said, "Just another couple months with them." But since I came out to my mom, my life was a living Hell. My parents stopped acknowledging me as their child. We lost the intimacy we once had. We're a family that hugs and gives kisses and says, "I love you" regularly and "Goodnight" every night.

I wish my family was like that.....my mom only makes sure I know she cares about me if she's worried about me. My dad...I can't remember the last time my dad said "I love you." Even before trans. I really can't.

My godmother gave me a bday card that said she loved me very much in it and it made my day, and still makes me happy to look at now and then. I take love where I can get it.

Quote from: trapthavok on August 30, 2008, 08:26:51 PM

Quote from: Elwood on August 30, 2008, 06:59:18 PMI felt that way too. I except I said, "Just another couple months with them." But since I came out to my mom, my life was a living Hell. My parents stopped acknowledging me as their child. We lost the intimacy we once had. We're a family that hugs and gives kisses and says, "I love you" regularly and "Goodnight" every night.

I wish my family was like that.....my mom only makes sure I know she cares about me if she's worried about me. My dad...I can't remember the last time my dad said "I love you." Even before trans. I really can't.

My godmother gave me a bday card that said she loved me very much in it and it made my day, and still makes me happy to look at now and then. I take love where I can get it.

Yeah. And my mom still tells me she loves me. But for a while it was pretty distant. Now she says it a lot.

"I love you, I just hate what you're doing to yourself. I am so scared for you." Those words, believe it or not, don't help me much. I'm glad she still loves me but... I need her support.

I moved out at 17 because I had to, even back then before I came out I had problems with my parents,I cannot imgine what it would have been like living at home and coming out,I mean I still can't tell them now and I'm 28.

I tried telling my mum but she could not really handle it and was saying stuff like I'm so worried etc..etc... and was really stressing out so I just took it back and made it in to a joke (coward that I am).

So I totally understand when you say about sweeping things under the carpet,I mean I reckon my mother knows just by the way I dress and act etc..but she doesn't want to acknowledge it. My Dad I don't know how he would react, when my mum told him he didn't take it seriously apparently and then I went and took it back anyways and pretended it had been a joke because of some stupid row I had with my partner when I was round my parents (which was when it initially all came out, mid argument lol).

My advice to you re: the whole college thing is definately get out there on your own if you can at all afford to the experiences you will have that you would not otherwise have and the independence you will gain, not to mention the peace of mind and the sanity you will get being away from your family for a bit (as much as you love them) is in my opinion priceless.

I've never looked back since leaving home, although of course I still visit my parents and love them very much.  Just because you love them it doesn'tmean you have to live with them or get on with them 100% of the time.

Quote from: trapthavok on August 28, 2008, 10:07:43 PM

Quote from: Brady on August 28, 2008, 08:35:34 PM
I think it's a great idea to live on campus.  I almost wish I would have, but our dorms are WAY expensive.  There are brand new, so the payments are $891 a month.  I pay $649 for my FULL apartment that's all mine, not just a little bed with 3 room mates.  If the dorms would have been cheaper, I would have done that.  The on-campus apartments are even more expensive. EEK.

Wow that sucks. The apartments on campus here are about $3000 a semester, and off campus apartments are $2600 a MONTH. Plus I have no transportation to get to campus besides my own two feet so the house couldn't be far. The newest on campus apartments are $800 a month which is cheaper than off campus but still too much. I can do $3000 a semester. I don't make enough to pay monthly bills on campus or off campus, plus the $2600 a month off campus would come to $24,000 or so by the end of the school year whereas the loans for $3000 a semester may only come out to $10,000 in the long run. I can handle that, especially since I don't have any other loans or debts besides freshman year housing.

Anyway, my parents aren't like your mom, Brady. If I said "I'm moving out" they'd say "....huh?" then I'd explain and mom would go " I'm such a bad parent" and dad wouldn't say anything. It's not that they'll stop me from moving out, they'll just think I'm doing it cause of them and be all depressed about it. Truth is, they're half the reason I'm leaving but I can't tell them that lol. Especially not mom, despite her flaws she's the only one I love most, I'm a momma's boy and proud of it, but she'd take me leaving the hardest.

I could tell them the other part of the reason that I'm moving.. 1) I need to focus on school it's really important too me (the other half is all this home stress is distracting and already affecting my schoolwork and it's only the first week.... but I won't say all that)  and 2)I want to make things easier on them with our commuting situations. If I leave, each of them will have a car, and no hassle. (Which is only half a lie, I'M irritated with the commuting situation, they're stressed and won't admit it, but I'm leaving more for me than them).

That's all I could come up with that might not hurt them as much as the ENTIRE truth. Minus the stuff in parenthesis.

Earth to Nate! Earth to Nate! You are responsible for treating them ethically and with respect. You are NOT responsible for their feelings. As long as you feel that you are, you'll be hampered in your becoming-adult process--nevermind the other stuff.

Don't give me a penny--i refuse to overcharge.

Posted on: August 31, 2008, 04:27:26 PM

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Quote from: milliontoone on August 31, 2008, 04:10:41 PM
I moved out at 17 because I had to, even back then before I came out I had problems with my parents,I cannot imgine what it would have been like living at home and coming out,I mean I still can't tell them now and I'm 28.

I tried telling my mum but she could not really handle it and was saying stuff like I'm so worried etc..etc... and was really stressing out so I just took it back and made it in to a joke (coward that I am).

OH MAN when I was 14 and the closest words for myself that i could find were "I think i'm bisexual..." i wound up doing the same thing. What else are you supposed to say when you basically get "You know you're going to hell, right?"

Quote from: iFindMeHere on August 31, 2008, 04:29:17 PM
OH MAN when I was 14 and the closest words for myself that i could find were "I think i'm bisexual..." i wound up doing the same thing. What else are you supposed to say when you basically get "You know you're going to hell, right?"

Dude that's rough  And wrong. 

Quote from: iFindMeHere on August 31, 2008, 04:29:17 PM
Earth to Nate! Earth to Nate! You are responsible for treating them ethically and with respect. You are NOT responsible for their feelings. As long as you feel that you are, you'll be hampered in your becoming-adult process--nevermind the other stuff.

I really appreciate you mentioning that dude. That issue has come up with me and my old therapist before and she also said their feelings are not my responsibility. Mental block, I suppose, I just hate conflict but you're both right. I need to remember that always,



milliontoone...you're right. I had a lot more fun and got a lot more out of my college experience when I lived on campus. I'm sorry that I lived at home the past two years but glad for the opportunity to spend my last year there. Haha I'm glad we've only had 3 days of school so far, I still have time to move in, but I'm not going to wait forever.

Quote from: trapthavok on August 31, 2008, 08:48:13 PM

Quote from: iFindMeHere on August 31, 2008, 04:29:17 PM
OH MAN when I was 14 and the closest words for myself that i could find were "I think i'm bisexual..." i wound up doing the same thing. What else are you supposed to say when you basically get "You know you're going to hell, right?"

Dude that's rough  And wrong. 

Quote from: iFindMeHere on August 31, 2008, 04:29:17 PM
Earth to Nate! Earth to Nate! You are responsible for treating them ethically and with respect. You are NOT responsible for their feelings. As long as you feel that you are, you'll be hampered in your becoming-adult process--nevermind the other stuff.

I really appreciate you mentioning that dude. That issue has come up with me and my old therapist before and she also said their feelings are not my responsibility. Mental block, I suppose, I just hate conflict but you're both right. I need to remember that always,

The only reason I know is because I have the same battle. as far as the other stuff goes, well, par for the course with my folks *rolls eyes*

Nate, I think that Devlin gave some good advice early on. And you yourself were talking about listing your reasons for moving. You might try the list and then when you have everything written down, figure out what the most compelling and least hurtful two or three reasons are. You're in your senior year and are presumably taking mostly courses in your major--that's one good reason to stay on campus. Academic reasons should be right there at the top. Stick to business, not personal.

I guess you might also think of it as a way of preparing for living on your own after graduation--a somewhat gradual way of getting ready to be a full-on adult. Don't know if you want to present this view to your parents, though.

iFindMeHere (and your therapist, too, you said) pointed out that you're not responsible for your family's feelings on the matter. Obviously, as he mentioned, you want to be as gentle as possible, but I completely agree with this statement. Do not, not, NOT allow yourself to fall into feeling guilty for their reaction. I did something like that for YEARS, and it did not help me one bit. You seem to have taken to heart what he said, but I just want to chime in here because of my own experience with such things.

Once they know that you love them and will stay in touch, the rest is up to them. And if they do hassle you, try to remember that they love YOU and want to keep you around. That can be stifling, but it can also be flattering. For their sakes, try to take it in a positive way--at least until you're on your own again!!!

Thanks everyone, you all had very good advice. I broke the news to my parents over the weekend, and my mom still feels like I'm doing stuff and telling her after I do it but whatever... I don't know how else I'm supposed to show I've changed, and I don't care enough, honestly.

I want back to apply for housing today and got my apartment key, same day :O Shocking. Still in the process of getting loans, but I'll be moved out by this weekend!!!

Today was such a stressful day it was merely a reminder of how badly I need this.