I know Tobi. I wrote on Tobi's blog and told Tobi how I thought it was offensive and that some of the gender queer group was trying to normalize the word. I find it as offensive as the "N" word and others that were brought up. I'm not a label like that, I'm a woman and I have a name. Those are the two distinct labels I have other than Miss, Ma'am and maybe honey and that is a maybe. Write to Tobi and read some of the comments on Tobi's blog.

Use of the word ->-bleeped-<- among fellow transpeople doesn't bother me, I see it as reclaiming words that have been used against us. I rarely use the word myself, when I have it was humorously directed at myself, never towards others. I would never call someone else ->-bleeped-<- who wasn't comfortable with it. I certainly don't wish to incur the wrath of Nichole's brick. 

That said, I'm still not totally used to the idea of identifying as queer, even though the community has reclaimed that word. I guess the many times I was called that as a kid really stung. And as a Jew, I would never use the word kike for myself or another Jew. I find it interesting which of these bother me and which don't.

Z

I say that the word mostly is. My anti-trans little sister uses it quit a lot.

I used to think it was, but most people seem to use it as a throwaway word without really thinking about it, so I don't bother too much about it now. In common with many others however, I would be angry if it were used in order to be offensive.

The one word which does annoy me, my current pet hate at the moment, is genderqueer.

Quote from: Secretgirl on September 11, 2008, 07:45:56 AM
I say that the word mostly is. My anti-trans little sister uses it quit a lot.

Your little sis sounds like one of the other hot words in this discussion.

Quote from: Karen_A on September 11, 2008, 11:12:55 AM

The one word which does annoy me, my current pet hate at the moment, is genderqueer.

I'd like to hear more about this.

Quote from: iFindMeHere on September 12, 2008, 12:09:49 AM

Quote from: Karen_A on September 11, 2008, 11:12:55 AM

The one word which does annoy me, my current pet hate at the moment, is genderqueer.

I'd like to hear more about this.

Me too. I have friends who identify as it. Its kind of non insulting...

You don't exactly hear a redneck call people that....

I realy don't know much about the meaning of genderqueer is so I am certainly not sufficiently educated to comment on that one. But if you take that just ten years ago, queer anything, at any rate wasn't considered a very nice compliment.

Cindy

Quote from: cindybc on September 12, 2008, 12:58:28 AM
I realy don't know much about the meaning of genderqueer is so I am certainly not sufficiently educated to comment on that one. But if you take that just ten years ago, queer anything, at any rate wasn't considered a very nice compliment.

Cindy

It's also one of those phrases that is being reclaimed.

I don't get how reclaimers think they can fix things.

Well I am happy to have got through transitioning I got enough of the being called queer, Odd, nuts,  crazy, a space cadet, weird well as the litany goes. Just all so childish as I look back on it now, bullies and meanies, air headed red necks. Akkkkk glad it's over for me. And if you think that name calling and cuts and bruises makes you stronger, think again. People treated me better once I came out as myself for keeps.

Cindy

Let me say at once that I don't consider the word 'genderqueer' any more offensive that I now consider '->-bleeped-<-'. What I really object to is the 'queer' part and how that appears to the many ill-informed people out there who will, for example, either treat it as meaning weird or homosexual.

Having been involved in the TV/TS scene in London in the early eighties, I am only too aware of how people treated all gender fluid people as strange and, usually, automatically assumed that they all were homosexual. Society has, thankfully, become slightly better acquainted with the facts, but I feel that the use of the word 'genderqueer' may rekindle this old belief.

Recently I read on another site that 'genderqueer' is gaining popularity among androgynes and may eventually replace androgyne altogether. I, for one, feel that may be a bad step.

Quote from: Karen_A on September 12, 2008, 07:56:04 AM
Let me say at once that I don't consider the word 'genderqueer' any more offensive that I now consider '->-bleeped-<-'. What I really object to is the 'queer' part and how that appears to the many ill-informed people out there who will, for example, either treat it as meaning weird or homosexual.

Having been involved in the TV/TS scene in London in the early eighties, I am only too aware of how people treated all gender fluid people as strange and, usually, automatically assumed that they all were homosexual. Society has, thankfully, become slightly better acquainted with the facts, but I feel that the use of the word 'genderqueer' may rekindle this old belief.

Recently I read on another site that 'genderqueer' is gaining popularity among androgynes and may eventually replace androgyne altogether. I, for one, feel that may be a bad step.

i don't know a whole lot about androgynes. I always sensed a strong difference between the androgynes i have met and the queer-identified people i have met.

Quote from: iFindMeHere on September 13, 2008, 01:09:44 PM

Quote from: Karen_A on September 12, 2008, 07:56:04 AM
Recently I read on another site that 'genderqueer' is gaining popularity among androgynes and may eventually replace androgyne altogether. I, for one, feel that may be a bad step.

i don't know a whole lot about androgynes. I always sensed a strong difference between the androgynes i have met and the queer-identified people i have met.

I knew of the term genderqueer for years and never identified as such, however as soon as I heard the definition of androgyne, it resonated with my internal sense of being neither gender, and felt exactly right for me.

Z

Why do we have to have all these offensive labels? We don't call other ethinic people by names that were used in the 50's and by Archie Bunker. Why would we call ourselves by names that are very demeaning of who we are. I know that I'm a woman, not a "B" or a "C" or any other bad name. Just because I did transition from one gender to another, why should I be called a "T--Y" or "G--Q" or someother label from the porn people. I don't look at porn nor do I condone it either. Maybe I am a prude but I think somethings should remain in the privacy of your bedroom. I find some of the things that Tobi and company do are a little offensive to me. Like pornography.

The word '->-bleeped-<-' always conjurs up the wrong sort of image, and for those who don't know what I mean, think UK comedy sketch show 'Little Britain' and the image it attaches to transsexual peeps.  It's completely inaccurate, and very offensive, to use it to describe a transsexual person.

Quote from: Tink on September 09, 2008, 08:25:54 PM
Personally I find it terribly insulting since it implies we are not real women or men (in the case of FTM's) but a cheap imitation.  It doesn't really matter if the person saying it is transsexual herself/himself; it just shouldn't be said to anyone IMO.  If anyone (people, friends, etc) wants/want to refer to me, please use woman or girl because that is what I am.

tink

I agree with has been said here.  "->-bleeped-<-" means cant look for ourselves as what we really are.  I dunno. but I don't want to be "a man that changed sex" after my GRS.  "->-bleeped-<-" means we are what we aren't & that's not me. I'm female. A girl. a woman. Can't think of anybody that wants to be "that ->-bleeped-<-". Sorry can't identify. 

Hi, Sheila, If I had to use any of those labels I would and I did accept the label "trans" but I have not had to use any type of labels to address myself except for Cindy, she, her, Well I have heard the word "bitch" used a couple of times in the past six years, both times were just an off day, otherwise I usually get along with folks pretty well.

But I do agree with all of the rest of you girls.  Why do we have to use such archaic and defunct terminology on ourselves? Medical science researchers have been teaching students about "trans" for how long? Since Christine Jorgenson, maybe? I mean, cheez whiz, have they not classified some gender variances with proper and official scientific labels? I mean, what ever they come out with will no doubt be sterile and hard to spell for the most part but at least we would have official labels for the different gender variances from the scientific research community.

What we are getting for description of the gender variances are street talk made legitimate by medical and academic usage. Now I do really hope I don't get abducted by aliens from Andromeda or the men in black come to take me out for a nice car ride in the desert never to be seen again except on the other side of an experimental star gate, Dang Grauwels anyway.

Cindy

Quote from: Jeannette on September 19, 2008, 11:51:32 PM

Quote from: Tink on September 09, 2008, 08:25:54 PM
Personally I find it terribly insulting since it implies we are not real women or men (in the case of FTM's) but a cheap imitation.  It doesn't really matter if the person saying it is transsexual herself/himself; it just shouldn't be said to anyone IMO.  If anyone (people, friends, etc) wants/want to refer to me, please use woman or girl because that is what I am.

tink

I agree with has been said here.  "->-bleeped-<-" means cant look for ourselves as what we really are.  I dunno. but I don't want to be "a man that changed sex" after my GRS.  "->-bleeped-<-" means we are what we aren't & that's not me. I'm female. A girl. a woman. Can't think of anybody that wants to be "that ->-bleeped-<-". Sorry can't identify. 

I support this notion too.  This word can't be good when applied to transsexual people.  It's contemptuous & denigrating!

Quote from: Leiandra on September 09, 2008, 05:29:36 PM
I don't know, I don't find the word offensive unless the context it's used in is one I find offensive... but I personally don't like the word and wouldn't use it in conversation.

The word makes me think of the gearbox on a car.

Quite obviously you have never been called a "->-bleeped-<-", a hybrid, a freak of nature, have you? You're lucky!  When you are, I'd be looking for your answers...

Quote from: Nero on September 09, 2008, 08:15:12 PM

Quote from: Tink on September 09, 2008, 08:11:08 PM
I said it before, and I will say it again, this term along with "she-male" should die in a fire and go to hell while we are at it! 

tink

agreed.

"... but my trans friends are okay with me using it" is akin to "...but my black friends are okay with me using the N-word".
Doesn't mean you should say it, especially in the company of random black people. Same with '->-bleeped-<-'.

I completely agree with Tink & Nero.  I put all of these words in the same category as the "c" word.  In my opinion they should never be used under any circumstance.

Personally, I am even slightly bothered by the word "transsexual". Although I think it has an accurate definition, the connotation of it these days seems to be very sexually charged. Just put it in Google and see what it turns up.  Consequently if I'm referring to someone, I use their name, and the appropriate pronouns of the gender they identify with if I know it, or by the way they are presenting.

When I came out to people, I never even used "Transgendered" or "Trans". When I "came out" I used phrases such as: living as a female, assuming the gender role, change of gender, gender reassignment, etc.   However, if I am comfortable with people and they know my personal background, ie. I'm Trans, I am comfortable using the word Trans or transgender.

As one other person said, for me.... I would be preferred to be referred to as Tina, Miss, Ms, She, her, woman, or female......and if you are going to swear at me or use a derogatory word, use the word b****.(I may not like it, but at least I won't want to hit you over the head with a heavy object!)

QuoteWe don't call other ethnic people by names that were used in the 50's and by Archie Bunker

Archie Bunker is a fictional character, exaggerating the low class, living in the melting pot of a world of immigrants. The culture of many people not very articulate in English and all trying to improve their lives after coming from much worse conditions make for funny and colorful language use. Looking beyond the surface of words you see a heart of gold. Do not be so quick to take language at face value.