And a day is also 794 243 384 928 000 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom at 0K.

Thus spake science.

Posted on: September 22, 2008, 05:51:30 PM

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And an hour in church is also like a thousand years.

Thus spake the lord thy god when s/he said:

Thou must not try to reason a person out of a belief that they got into from an irrational stance in the first place.  For such only serves to amuse the lord thy god.

Nope, science and religion don't mix.  That is, you can't hold both a scientific and a religious explanation for the same phenomenon without feeling cognitive dissonance.

cognitive dissonance

Is the human condition.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

~Albert Einstein.

Fish without Bicycles are just fish without Bicycles also.

tekla

Quote from: tekla on September 22, 2008, 05:08:53 PM
cognitive dissonance

Is the human condition.

So is thirst - and when either happens, we act to resolve it.

Quote from: Leiandra on September 22, 2008, 05:11:26 PM
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

~Albert Einstein.

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

- Albert Einstein, letter to an atheist (1954), quoted in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffman

The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.

- Albert Einstein, letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, January 3, 1954

You are right it is all in the details. No doubt local produce is not as efficient as mass produced. There are more factors than price as you know. Grass feed cows take a lot longer to add weight so they must cost more and require more labor and time. Would you rather have a 50" TV made by slaves in China or a steak free of hormones and antibiotics with less fat? Each person has to look at their moral values to choose and then vote with their dollar.

What good is a fish without a bicycle, tekla?  I mean, come on!

Posted on: September 22, 2008, 06:23:21 PM

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Quote from: lisagurl on September 22, 2008, 05:23:01 PM
You are right it is all in the details. No doubt local produce is not as efficient as mass produced. There are more factors than price as you know. Grass feed cows take a lot longer to add weight so they must cost more and require more labor and time. Would you rather have a 50" TV made by slaves in China or a steak free of hormones and antibiotics with less fat? Each person has to look at their moral values to choose and then vote with their dollar.

Exactly.  For my part, I'm voting for the factory-farmed, hormonally-charged, slop-inflated cows, until a viable large-scale alternative comes around.  Viable meaning cheaper.

Nor do I watch TV - I'm afraid I might catch sight of Bill O'Reilly, and be out the cost of a new TV.

And I'll keep the fat, too.  I've lost 40 lb on a bastardized version of Atkins, and it's been a struggle to find meat with a decent fat content.

QuoteViable meaning cheaper.

Then those are your values. For my own life I prefer things money can not buy.

Yeah, its absurd, so too is people who don't think two very different thoughts at the same time.  Really.  Golly gosh, that's what keep me going and getting out of be each day.  Sure, I could be doing the same suck ass rock band (My Chemical Romance) that is just like every other suck ass rock band (See: Panic! At the Disco) who know less about those instruments they play then I know about being a Georgia Redneck, but alas and alack, its going to be My Chemical Romance anyway ain't it?  (file:  My Chemical Romance under:  Bands That Wear Their Girlfriends Pants To Play In)

But hey, it might be Zappa plays Zappa, and once a year, it is.

Quote from: tekla on September 22, 2008, 05:32:23 PM
Yeah, its absurd, so too is people who don't think two very different thoughts at the same time.  Really.  Golly gosh, that's what keep me going and getting out of be each day.  Sure, I could be doing the same suck ass rock band (My Chemical Romance) that is just like every other suck ass rock band (See: Panic! At the Disco) who know less about those instruments they play then I know about being a Georgia Redneck, but alas and alack, its going to be My Chemical Romance anyway ain't it?  (file:  My Chemical Romance under:  Bands That Wear Their Girlfriends Pants To Play In)

But hey, it might be Zappa plays Zappa, and once a year, it is.

Where are you getting the idea I said it was absurd, or wrong?  It's a basic and widely accepted theory of human psychology.

Quote from: lisagurl on September 22, 2008, 05:29:57 PM

QuoteViable meaning cheaper.

Then those are your values. For my own life I prefer things money can not buy.

That's a little unfair.

Would you have me indulge in premium products produced in such a way that they can never be provided in quantity enough to replace the standard good?  You'd want me to squander that extra wealth to indulge my own selfish desire for an unusually "pure" or morally "correct" product, when the money could be put to some more productive use, like growing a company, developing a new substitute, donating to charity, buying pristine land to preserve it, or even saving for my retirement?

Do you buy fair-trade coffee?  Organic produce?  Antibiotic-free meat?  One of these is a scam - do you know which?  Are you so sure you're making good decisions with your money?

Quote from: tekla on September 22, 2008, 01:04:59 PM
Once I found out about that and nothing happened I'm kind of skeptical about...

Pretty much my notion about g*d too.

same for me but with sex. 

QuoteAre you so sure you're making good decisions with your money?

Not 100% I do read the signs and do research. No I do not buy coffee. Organic does not mean without slaves or chemicals, the USDA has approved the use of that word to accommodate almost everything.  But I do buy grass fed beef and chicken but less than once a month. Locally catfish is a staple. We make our own bread to avoid corn syrup and cook all meals from scratch never eat at restaurants. Buy nothing made in China and use less than a tank of gas a month. You can not live entirely free from the corruption but you can make a difference.

I also send plenty of letters to Government and corporations asking them to clean up their acts. I do spend lots of time in the library.

Quotecan never be provided in quantity enough to replace the standard good?

Americans do not need 90% of what they buy. Check out the land fills a quality product does not need to be replaced. It should last a lifetime.

Quote from: lisagurl on September 22, 2008, 05:29:57 PM

QuoteViable meaning cheaper.

Then those are your values. For my own life I prefer things money can not buy.

well, money can't buy my love, so, uh... where does that leave us?     Should I be expecting flowers? heh

Quotewell, money can't buy my love

I did not say everything. You probably have a hard time giving it away.

Thanks for spilling that secret. Now I have to find new lies to tell people about me.

I'm all into free trade sex, it's like free trade coffee, but without the buzz, but a lot more mess.  Is that the same thing?

Cognitive dissonance is vastly over rated as a mental corrective for illogical beliefs and the behavior they produce. It's based on the false premise that cognition is a greater force in the human mind than emotion.

If those who cling to irrational beliefs ever change their behavior it is because of reality dissonance biting them in the ass. Not because they couldn't handle the "terrible pain" of holding beliefs that obviously did not conform to reality.

People use reason to justify their irrational beliefs, not to examine them.

Just a few scary thoughts that seemed to be lacking in this thread. 

Cognitive dissonance is vastly over rated as a mental corrective for illogical beliefs

See:  Republican Party of the United States of America.


People use reason to justify their irrational beliefs, not to examine them.

See:  Republican Party of the United States of America