Ok I told my wife the truth and she still loves me and wants to be married but I have to stay the way I am now. But shes afraid Im not attracted to her anymore. In reality I'm extremely sexually attracted to her but she dosent believe me. She thinks I have to be attracted to men now and thats just not happening. So then she thinks Im wrong about being a total woman inside. So really what Im asking for is some insight on this matter because I KNOW who I am inside and Im still and always been extremely attracted to women. I have noticed however Im having less (use imagination) since Ive addmitted who I am to myself. I still feel aroused but not with the body part as much. Does this always happen?

We're doing the same thing right now too.

I too got the stay the way you are clause.  Even though I have a really slow transition plan, it seems that knowing she doesn't want me to move past certain points makes me want them immediately.  Even if she was ok with a full transition I wouldn't be ready now, but her "no" makes me want it more.  But maybe dealing with the temptation now (with environment, money and her approval against it) will be easier than dealing with it later (when its only her approval against it).  There is always the hope that as we move forward she may change her mind (or maybe I'll be happy stopping before the end), but I'm trying to not worry about that bridge till we get there.

She was also very concerned that I wasn't attracted to her anymore.  One way to explain it (if you wife isn't accepting that you are bi/lesbian) is to point out that after you've been happily married X years then the deeper love you've built doesn't depend on gender.  IE: You don't love her because of sex, but because you love her you can express it with sex (regardless of her/your forms).  As far as less interest on your part for certain activities, when she is interested in more than you feel comfortable giving then I've found it helps to think about making her feel good instead of what is being asked.  By focusing on that instead of what I'm doing I'm not as uncomfortable (sure I'd rather do it a different way, but its a shared thing so we make a compromise).

I don't know what to say about when she thinks you aren't really a woman inside.  I get that too and it really hurts.  I'm constantly being told that being able to do x or y well is a guy thing.  Or questioned about why I'd want such a thing and I'm lucky to be a guy.  I had to leave the room and do other stuff for a few hours (and I still barely kept it together and didn't fall apart) this weekend when I was told "even though you think you have these feminine traits, you really have more masculine traits."  It wasn't even the statement that I did or did not have more guy traits, but rather that I "think" I have the others the really hurt (especially since she had already acknowledged that several of them are glaringly obvious).  Like you said I "KNOW" who I am inside, but it still hurts.  I'm not sure they are doing it on purpose.  I think its a way for them to deal with the change, I suspect they subconsciously think if they keep after us we'll just give up and everything will be back to normal.

For me I have actually changed my preference three times.  I thought that when I changed I would continue to want women and nothing would ever shake me of that.  I was wrong on that.  So I decided to try men and they were not for me totally.  I went back to dating women and I still felt I was not getting the satisfaction I was craving.  I ended up starting to attend a local support group meeting and hit it off with a girl that was a non op.  One thing led to another and we fell in love.  She was everything that I needed.  She has since moved on and married a nice man.  Dating her opened me up to new experiences to where if I hadn't I would not know what would full fill me.  If that makes sense.  Just my two cents

Quote from: coolJ on September 24, 2008, 04:58:51 AM
Ok I told my wife the truth and she still loves me and wants to be married but I have to stay the way I am now.

First of all, good for you on telling your wife. I'm proud of you! That took a lot of courage. *hugs*

As for your wife wanting you to stay the way you are...well, I'm not surprised. After all, I did the same thing with Dani 10 years ago. It's a fairly normal defense/coping mechanism, the want for nothing to change. You need to talk some more and explain that you *cannot* stay the way you are. However, also explain that your changes won't be overnight either, so there will be time to adjust. This is where some couples therapy would be beneficial. You can also ask your therapist for suggestions on how to approach things.

Quote from: coolJ on September 24, 2008, 04:58:51 AM
But shes afraid Im not attracted to her anymore. In reality I'm extremely sexually attracted to her but she dosent believe me. She thinks I have to be attracted to men now and thats just not happening.

Well, I don't know how common that reaction is, but I can understand it. Most of us think of gender as a binary thing, either male or female and it follows that if you're male you're attracted to women, and vice versa. It's a fairly narrow view of things, however, most religions and societal "norms" enforce this belief. Having spent most of my 35 years in a heavily conservative and heavily religious area, I understand how much and how well the beliefs can be ingrained. A lot of times, you don't even realize it happens either. Your job is to reassure your wife that you're not going to leave.

This can also be a reaction against being perceived as lesbian, because after your transition you will appear to be a lesbian couple. That can be difficult for a lot of women to handle, however it is possible to accept. Again, therapy for your wife and/or couples therapy would help here. Also just talking to her and allowing her to express *why* your wife feels this way may help her come to terms with her feelings.

This was something I had to come to terms with myself. Strangely enough being perceived as lesbian didn't bother me much. What *did* bother me was that I felt that Dani would somehow be a "better" woman that I was. Once I acknowledged that fact, I realized how stupid it was, although just because it was dumb, didn't make it less valid and I had to figure out why I felt this way. In the end I realized that there was no such thing as a "better" woman, just "different" and aren't we all different in some way?

Quote from: coolJ on September 24, 2008, 04:58:51 AM
So then she thinks Im wrong about being a total woman inside. So really what Im asking for is some insight on this matter because I KNOW who I am inside and Im still and always been extremely attracted to women. I have noticed however Im having less (use imagination) since Ive addmitted who I am to myself. I still feel aroused but not with the body part as much. Does this always happen?

So why does your wife think you're wrong about being a woman? Is it because of your hobbies or interests? If so, I should be a man then! My hobbies are very "male" oriented, i.e. motorcycling, computers, video games. Even my profession in Information Technology is very male dominated. I rarely wear skirts or heels because I find them impractical. But I can assure you I was born female So, we can draw the conclusion that hobbies and interests do not make you "male" or "female", they just make you *you*

As for the sex drive declining, that happened to Dani. It didn't go away, just reduced. Her theory is that she wasn't "trying to be a man" anymore. Personally, I can't say I'm displeased with that as prior to her coming out again, it was actually becoming a major issue for us. The end result is that we're actually intimate more often and it's *better*. It sounds weird, I know, but that's how it worked out for us.

I hope this helps you understand where your wife may be coming from on some things. Keep talking and listening to her though. It will take her some time to accept things, but as long as the lines of communication are open, you can make progress.

Good luck!

WR

Quote from: Windrider on September 24, 2008, 05:13:16 PM

Quote from: coolJ on September 24, 2008, 04:58:51 AM
Ok I told my wife the truth and she still loves me and wants to be married but I have to stay the way I am now.

First of all, good for you on telling your wife. I'm proud of you! That took a lot of courage. *hugs*

As for your wife wanting you to stay the way you are...well, I'm not surprised. After all, I did the same thing with Dani 10 years ago. It's a fairly normal defense/coping mechanism, the want for nothing to change. You need to talk some more and explain that you *cannot* stay the way you are. However, also explain that your changes won't be overnight either, so there will be time to adjust. This is where some couples therapy would be beneficial. You can also ask your therapist for suggestions on how to approach things.

Quote from: coolJ on September 24, 2008, 04:58:51 AM
But shes afraid Im not attracted to her anymore. In reality I'm extremely sexually attracted to her but she dosent believe me. She thinks I have to be attracted to men now and thats just not happening.

Well, I don't know how common that reaction is, but I can understand it. Most of us think of gender as a binary thing, either male or female and it follows that if you're male you're attracted to women, and vice versa. It's a fairly narrow view of things, however, most religions and societal "norms" enforce this belief. Having spent most of my 35 years in a heavily conservative and heavily religious area, I understand how much and how well the beliefs can be ingrained. A lot of times, you don't even realize it happens either. Your job is to reassure your wife that you're not going to leave.

This can also be a reaction against being perceived as lesbian, because after your transition you will appear to be a lesbian couple. That can be difficult for a lot of women to handle, however it is possible to accept. Again, therapy for your wife and/or couples therapy would help here. Also just talking to her and allowing her to express *why* your wife feels this way may help her come to terms with her feelings.

This was something I had to come to terms with myself. Strangely enough being perceived as lesbian didn't bother me much. What *did* bother me was that I felt that Dani would somehow be a "better" woman that I was. Once I acknowledged that fact, I realized how stupid it was, although just because it was dumb, didn't make it less valid and I had to figure out why I felt this way. In the end I realized that there was no such thing as a "better" woman, just "different" and aren't we all different in some way?

Quote from: coolJ on September 24, 2008, 04:58:51 AM
So then she thinks Im wrong about being a total woman inside. So really what Im asking for is some insight on this matter because I KNOW who I am inside and Im still and always been extremely attracted to women. I have noticed however Im having less (use imagination) since Ive addmitted who I am to myself. I still feel aroused but not with the body part as much. Does this always happen?

So why does your wife think you're wrong about being a woman? Is it because of your hobbies or interests? If so, I should be a man then! My hobbies are very "male" oriented, i.e. motorcycling, computers, video games. Even my profession in Information Technology is very male dominated. I rarely wear skirts or heels because I find them impractical. But I can assure you I was born female So, we can draw the conclusion that hobbies and interests do not make you "male" or "female", they just make you *you*

As for the sex drive declining, that happened to Dani. It didn't go away, just reduced. Her theory is that she wasn't "trying to be a man" anymore. Personally, I can't say I'm displeased with that as prior to her coming out again, it was actually becoming a major issue for us. The end result is that we're actually intimate more often and it's *better*. It sounds weird, I know, but that's how it worked out for us.

I hope this helps you understand where your wife may be coming from on some things. Keep talking and listening to her though. It will take her some time to accept things, but as long as the lines of communication are open, you can make progress.

Good luck!

WR

Thanks Windrider and I totally understand how hard this is for her to take. What I didnt convey is that she said she needs me to stay a man and after seeing her reaction Ive gotta do it for her. She said she really needs me the way I am or shes gonna die. I feel she's the pearl thats worth giving up everything to have. Also my daughters are young, I'd want them to be older. So this means I'm pretty much stuck in this body. I cant lose her. I do feel so much better telling her the truth. I was blacking out while driving trying to hold it in. So now I've finally talked to someone about it and no more blackouts! I feel relief but when I think of having to stay this way I have to blot it out. Maybe she'll change her mind someday but I doubt it. I cant expect her to just accept this like it was no big deal and she is having a hard time believing this. She wants me to pray to be a man inside so I said if you could be turned into a man would you want to-she said no way. I said thats how I feel. I'd rather suffer trapped in this body knowing I'm a lesbian woman inside than have my mind altered! Thank you for everything!

It takes two people to make a relationship work. Give and take.

What about your needs?

How can she be happy knowing that you're not?

It is confusing, isn't it?

I love women, but have always experienced more sexual "highs" with men.

I now have a woman in my life who accepts and loves me apparently without reservation, and that has caused my emotions to take control of my sexual needs to the degree that i feel unbelievably attracted to her.

It, to me, is now at least a time for me to understand that to be loved and to love is not just to be based on physical amenities. It is to be based on a total spectrum that includes trust, ability to share thoughts and emotions freely, and a belief that the other person truly wants to share love.

May sound corny, but hey, i'm a romantic...

Quote from: Leiandra on September 25, 2008, 12:49:27 AM
It takes two people to make a relationship work. Give and take.

What about your needs?

How can she be happy knowing that you're not?

While I agree this is true when entring into a relationship, the problem many of us face is that the rules have changed since those glorious days of young love and attraction. When you have committed to a partner for 20 years and you have children, you have to accept that your needs can be in the minority.

The thing that is constantly spinning in my mind is not whether I would be happier in transition, but whether I have the right to drag 3 other people through it with me so long as I can live with the pain.

There is a word that plays a big part for me in true love that goes beyond attraction.....sacrifice..

Chrissty

But sacrifice too much of yourself and what is there left for the other to love? What is there left for you to love?

How do you give your life to making others happy when you have, within yourself, no life to give because it's been trapped in a prison of selflessness?

Wouldn't you become something worse for your partner, and those around you, than anything transition could ever do... wouldn't you become a machine? A robot?

Quote from: Leiandra on September 25, 2008, 03:41:03 AM
But sacrifice too much of yourself and what is there left for the other to love? What is there left for you to love?

How do you give your life to making others happy when you have, within yourself, no life to give because it's been trapped in a prison of selflessness?

Wouldn't you become something worse for your partner, and those around you, than anything transition could ever do... wouldn't you become a machine? A robot?

I think I'm definitely a machine facade. I thought my whole life that this was what I was supposed to be-to be accepted. You see when I was young I was picked on and ridiculed so I started lifting weights in 7th grade then when the bullies tried to beat me up they got beat themselves. Its been like this my whole life having to try and be someone I thought I'm "supposed" to be. I even kind of look like the good terminator. Ive accomplished things that most men have to make up stories about. So yes Ive become a machine that I almost cant stand to look at! I'd throw the facade away in a second but I cant hurt my wife-I just cant. If she knew when we got married then I'd say hay you knew but this is a shock to her. Shes more worried that I'm going to leave her now.Maybe in a little time she will want to help me-thats my hope.     I'm thinking that she'll realize that she fell in love with the good person inside-the real me and then maybe things could change. She is questioning whether our marraige is a lie though and I said its not!

I guess I just don't understand... you don't want to be someone else, you want to be yourself. If your wife loves anything about you beyond the physical then she's already in love with a woman, she just doesn't realise it... because it's who you are inside and always were.

It's not as though you want an entire brain/personality transplant.

You're still the same person she married, it's not as though you're going to wake up one morning, look at yourself in the mirror and say "Hey, I'm a gorgeous woman... I need a man!"

Your hopes and dreams don't change, the love you have for your family doesn't change, the way you feel, think and see the world doesn't change... transition doesn't make you into someone you're not, it helps you become the person you always were. All that changes is your body, to match the mind is still yours and always was.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Quote from: Leiandra on September 25, 2008, 04:34:37 AM
I guess I just don't understand... you don't want to be someone else, you want to be yourself. If your wife loves anything about you beyond the physical then she's already in love with a woman, she just doesn't realise it... because it's who you are inside and always were.

It's not as though you want an entire brain/personality transplant.

You're still the same person she married, it's not as though you're going to wake up one morning, look at yourself in the mirror and say "Hey, I'm a gorgeous woman... I need a man!"

Your hopes and dreams don't change, the love you have for your family doesn't change, the way you feel, think and see the world doesn't change... transition doesn't make you into someone you're not, it helps you become the person you always were. All that changes is your body, to match the mind is still yours and always was.

Maybe I'm missing something.

No your not missing anything in fact I think your hitting it right on.Your right none of the truth changes. I think shes gonna see that she fell in love with me and not some lie and then she'll help me.Only problem is time. But you are exactly right.

Quote from: Leiandra on September 25, 2008, 04:34:37 AM
I guess I just don't understand... you don't want to be someone else, you want to be yourself. If your wife loves anything about you beyond the physical then she's already in love with a woman, she just doesn't realise it... because it's who you are inside and always were.

You know, this was an amazing revelation for me when I figured this out for myself. But I realized *I want Dani*. I want the fun, happy, person she is. I want how she laughs and we go do things together. I want her smiles and to share her sadness to make it better. I missed Dani during the years she was in denial (although I didn't realize that until later.)

Similarly, I could *not* ask Dani to return to the living hell her life had become during those 8 years. What kind of friend, let alone best friend, would I be if I asked that? Not a very good one. I think perhaps these things are some of the reasons I decided to deal with Dani's transition instead of hoping it would all go away (like I did the last time.)

And the rewards are totally worth it

WR

Quote from: Windrider on September 25, 2008, 07:11:19 AM

Quote from: Leiandra on September 25, 2008, 04:34:37 AM
I guess I just don't understand... you don't want to be someone else, you want to be yourself. If your wife loves anything about you beyond the physical then she's already in love with a woman, she just doesn't realise it... because it's who you are inside and always were.

You know, this was an amazing revelation for me when I figured this out for myself. But I realized *I want Dani*. I want the fun, happy, person she is. I want how she laughs and we go do things together. I want her smiles and to share her sadness to make it better. I missed Dani during the years she was in denial (although I didn't realize that until later.)

Similarly, I could *not* ask Dani to return to the living hell her life had become during those 8 years. What kind of friend, let alone best friend, would I be if I asked that? Not a very good one. I think perhaps these things are some of the reasons I decided to deal with Dani's transition instead of hoping it would all go away (like I did the last time.)

And the rewards are totally worth it

WR

hello windrider; I am new here and you are the first person who I can relate to. my situation is very similar to yours, I am married to a mtf (pre op) we have been dealing with these issues for nearly 6 years. I know my SO needs to transition, and I support this, but one thing bothers me.


I would like to have children in the future, and I am wondering if you know anybody who has stayed together and had children (after transition)?


Do you have children? if so has it been dificult to raise them with 2 mothers?

Quote from: AnnGGSO on September 26, 2008, 10:24:27 PM
hello windrider; I am new here and you are the first person who I can relate to. my situation is very similar to yours, I am married to a mtf (pre op) we have been dealing with these issues for nearly 6 years. I know my SO needs to transition, and I support this, but one thing bothers me.

I would like to have children in the future, and I am wondering if you know anybody who has stayed together and had children (after transition)?

Do you have children? if so has it been dificult to raise them with 2 mothers?

Welcome to Susan's You've come to a wonderful place.

I'm sorry I can't answer your question though. Danielle and I don't have children and are not planning on having any.

However, I don't see why having kids after transition is a problem (unless you don't have banked sperm. Trying to adopt could be a problem.) Kids are remarkably resilient, especially when they're young. I never believed that you needed one male and one female parent to have a happy kid. You need parents that *love* the kid to have a happy kid You'd probably get more flack from society for being a "non-traditional" family than anything else. Although this is something you will want to consider, just so you're prepared.
I'd discuss having children with your partner (if you haven't already.)

Maybe some others here will have more advice.

WR

Quote from: Windrider on September 27, 2008, 10:19:37 AM

Quote from: AnnGGSO on September 26, 2008, 10:24:27 PM
hello windrider; I am new here and you are the first person who I can relate to. my situation is very similar to yours, I am married to a mtf (pre op) we have been dealing with these issues for nearly 6 years. I know my SO needs to transition, and I support this, but one thing bothers me.

I would like to have children in the future, and I am wondering if you know anybody who has stayed together and had children (after transition)?

Do you have children? if so has it been dificult to raise them with 2 mothers?

Welcome to Susan's You've come to a wonderful place.

I'm sorry I can't answer your question though. Danielle and I don't have children and are not planning on having any.

However, I don't see why having kids after transition is a problem (unless you don't have banked sperm. Trying to adopt could be a problem.) Kids are remarkably resilient, especially when they're young. I never believed that you needed one male and one female parent to have a happy kid. You need parents that *love* the kid to have a happy kid You'd probably get more flack from society for being a "non-traditional" family than anything else. Although this is something you will want to consider, just so you're prepared.
I'd discuss having children with your partner (if you haven't already.)

Maybe some others here will have more advice.

WR

windrider, thank you for your reply. I really have nobody to talk to about the subject, (except our therapist and she said the same thing as you "children are resilient"). I think you have been through alot of what I am going through now, I just have so many questions.

Thank you

Well, Ann, ask away That's what we're here for after all.

Welcome again!

WR

For me it got to the point I was willing to loose my family if thats what I must do to be me. Luckly she supportss me on this and we are going through it together.

Your wife needs to understand that transition changes nothing but physical apperance. I haven`t taken on any new hobbies and/or other things girls like. I still love drag boat racing, I will continue to work constuction. ( I hate it but it`s what I know)

None of this means i`m not female in my mind. It is just where life has taken me at this point. Now I`m taking life to other places. It fells great to be more me and I hope you can one day become more yourself too.

Quote from: almost,angie on September 28, 2008, 09:48:08 AM
For me it got to the point I was willing to loose my family if thats what I must do to be me. Luckly she supportss me on this and we are going through it together.

Your wife needs to understand that transition changes nothing but physical apperance. I haven`t taken on any new hobbies and/or other things girls like. I still love drag boat racing, I will continue to work constuction. ( I hate it but it`s what I know)

None of this means i`m not female in my mind. It is just where life has taken me at this point. Now I`m taking life to other places. It fells great to be more me and I hope you can one day become more yourself too.

Well I'm glad your wife is supporting you on this thats great for you!I think my situation is in limbo right now. My wife is barely keeping it together about me and I feel bad because she wont talk to anyone about this for fear of whatever. Right now I have to wait. Where lifes taken me has also ruined my looks too. I know this sounds vain but the kind of woman I'd like to look like is just unatainable because of the shape I'm in. Either way it looks like I'm semi screwed.
To be me I'd have to look like a real woman and if you saw me youd know what I mean.
Its been a tough week to say the least! But I'm still happier than before!

Hi coolJ

I know there a number of us here in a similar situation to you (possibly more than would like to admit it).

The main problem is that once these things are out in the open, we want to move on... but for some reason reality seems to go into slow motion... it can even go backwards as our own guilt kicks in... 

The early days are the worst, but once you get over the initial trauma, things can get back to some sort of order.

The main hope I have, is that although you say your wife will not talk to anyone else, she will talk to you ?... If she won't talk, try to make physical contact if she will let you.... try to sit together and hug her as a comfort....you don't have to say anything...just be together..the dialogue will return with time.

On the physical side of transition.. nothing happens overnight, but if you may be surprised how much has been achived by many of the girls on this site...

I'm over 6ft tall, broad shoulders, and 50 years old, but I don't attract much attention in the high street... unless I want to..

Hang in there...



Chrissty