Has anyone here currently or previously used hormone treatment in order to help them be androgynous? Would they recommend it or not, and why?

I have not used hormones but I have been fantasizing about some day in the future going on Testosterone for the masculinizing effects, but I'd imagine that as an androgyne and not a FtM it would be harder for me to get hormones because I wouldn't be planning on transitioning.

I don't see why it would be a problem to take the hormones to make yourself look more androgynous though, if that is your wish. Though, some of the effects from taking a higher dosage of estrogen or testosterone are permanent, so that would be something to keep in mind before someone decided whether or not they wanted to go that route, but that holds true for anyone considering HRT.

I haven't used hormones either, but I hope that I'll eventually get to go on an anti-androgen and maybe take a low dose of estrogen.  (I can't imagine transitioning all the way to female, even though I think I'd prefer it to being male.)

If it's very important to you to change your hormones and you're willing to accept the risks (do some research on that), then go for it.  If not, then don't.  Sorry I don't yet have experiences to share regarding that.

Andra may have, Ken/Kendra did as well.

Heya.  Yeah, I'm on estrogen therapy to maintain an androgynous appearance (was on estrogen and anti-androgens before bottom surgery).  It's hard to "recommend it or not", depends if you're ready to deal with the changes as for everyone taking HRT.  It was a mixed blessing for me as I didn't really want any breast growth but was still the best of the available options.  Thankfully by keeping my estrogen dose low I've managed to stay pretty small in that area.

Not sure whether you're male or female bodied.  If you're wanting to take T then bear in mind that the voice change comes fairly quickly, I think even on a low dose.

Phate: There are therapists around who'll prescribe T to genderqueer/non-binary identified people, hope you manage to find one in your area if you wish to go down this path in the future.

Does having low E's and no T pose any particular health risk Andra?

I've been thinking about what I would want to achieve if I take hormones and I think I would go for a similar regime to a pre-op MtF i.e antiandrogens and female level estrogens.

I want to have breasts and some curves, and a more fem face. What works against MtF's in having a male base will probably work to my advantage.

I questions whether I will be happy living the way I am. I would rather be happy with what I have and keep my wife happy too. But I think in the long run I have quite significant distress from my dysphoria. So much so I think the pros out weight the cons of having hormone therapy, though by the smallest of margins. As such I'm prepared to sit on it for a bit longer, and learn more. I suspect with time the push will get stronger.

So my thought is you only take them if you can be sure the good out weighs the bad.

I did ask my doctor about breast growth with feminine hormones: he said that it is one of the hardest things to accomplish with HRT alone, and that many MTFs will just opt for surgical augmentation when they go in for their vaginaplasties.

I tried hormones a while ago but the side effects (breathing problems) meant I only lasted 2 days. I'm currently looking into the herbal route

Quote from: Nicky on September 29, 2008, 05:29:27 PM
Does having low E's and no T pose any particular health risk Andra?

Osteoporosis

QuoteBoth estrogens and androgens are necessary in both biological males and females for healthy bone. (Young healthy women produce about 10 mg of testosterone monthly. Higher bone mineral density in males is associated with higher serum estrogen.)

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Hormone_replacement_therapy_%28male-to-female%29

Speaking for myself, I am biologically male, currently 23 years old: what I'm looking for specifically is hair to grow thicker (I'm not going bald yet, but best to get that staved off as soon as possible, I think) and facial features to reshape. I am worried about loss of muscle mass (I don't have a lot to speak off, and make my living as a warehouse labourer) and possible erectile dysfunction (not so much that I enjoy using it during sex at the moment, but I may learn to in the future and might be a blow to my ego).

For DHT, the two most common is minoxidil (Rogaine and Regaine) or finasteride (Proscar, Propecia, Fincar, Finpecia, Finax, Finast, Finara, Finalo, Prosteride, Gefina, Appecia, Finasterid IVAX, Finasterid Alternova). Sometimes spironolactone (Aldactone, Novo-Spiroton, Spiractin, Spirotone, Verospiron or Berlactone). There are different brands of each of these I put in parenthesis.

Also iron deficiency, high insulin, and thyroid (over and under active) problems can cause hair loss.

While minoxidil does help with male-pattern hair loss, it's most likely because it stimulates blood flow around the hair roots. The exact way it works isn't really known, but it isn't anything related to dihydrotestosterone (DHT).

Male-pattern hair loss is genetic (a recessive gene in the X chromosome, so it's pretty rare in women). Once the genetics are there, DHT slows and eventually stops hair growth (and since it is a testosterone derivative, women with the genetic tendency don't have nearly as severe a hair loss than men). Finasteride is marketed for hair loss because it inhibits the process by which testosterone is converted to DHT, but it may also have some other effects besides delaying hair loss.

DHT is a strong androgen, so taking it out of the male hormonal cocktail may mean lowered libido, problems with erection and all that, although this usually goes away in a few months as the body gets used to the lower levels. Also, since the testosterone is no longer converted to DHT some of it is converted to oestrogen instead, which may mean some small degree of feminisation -- there are at least a couple of us here who've got visible breast growth, but that is officially listed as a rare side effect.

Anyway, Dina, if you are worried about male-pattern hair loss you should contact a doctor sooner rather than later and talk about your concerns. Finasteride (and the more potent 5-alpha-reductase blocker dutasteride, marketed as Avodart) will stop or at least significantly delay hair loss but they won't reverse it completely (or even very much).

  Nfr

I'm mtf, wanting to go fulltime etc but probably never will... even if I wasn't mtf I think I would still decide to go on horomones to help go for an androgynous look. Just cause im weird that way =)

It doesn't seem weird to us, Astral.   

Even if you can't go full-time or aren't even MTF, getting relief from urges that feel wrong to you and reversing some of the changes that never really agreed with your identity can be very helpful. 

I am interested in OTC hormones that would helpme.  I am okay with most side effects.  I have had ed for years now anyway, and breast growth would be good.  What I would like is something that softens my look and voice.  Are ther any recommendations out there. 

OTC hormones? You mean over the counter?

Unfortunately hormones won't affect your voice. But voice training can achieve stunning results.
My recommendation is to talk to an endocronologist. While quite a bit is known about hormones I don't think much is known about treatments for androgynes. Also the effects of hormones don't seem to be consistent across all people so I think monitoring is a really important part of hormone therapy.

(also I think it is against the rules of this site to talk about dosages)

Quote from: Nicky on October 14, 2008, 02:30:37 PM
OTC hormones? You mean over the counter?

Unfortunately hormones won't affect your voice. But voice training can achieve stunning

ly unnatural sounding

Quoteresults.

Alrighty then, well I'm no expert but I do have experience to draw upon. I am Androgyne, however I was born a female and raised as such. I've tried various different things, some worked and some crashed and burned into a nuclear doom, lol. I do know that what works for one person doesn't for another. So I found out I had PCOS and had it from a very young age and as a result my hormones have always been, er, interesting. So due to health concerns I had to start taking birth control and that was extremely, extremely difficult for me. I mean it felt like I was betraying/cutting off a part of me, and at the same time helping the other. So yes it was very, very difficult but there really wasn't a choice in my case. I don't recommend any hormone stuff for androgyne people because, at least for me, it causes issues in your head.

So, what worked for me was actually just expressing myself more. Like I would ware more masculine clothes, do things that in my mind were more masculine as much as I needed to to help that side of myself be more comfortable. I do the same with my feminine side and yes it's work, a lot of work but in the end it works for me and i'm happy as long as I get those expressive needs met. And they are needs and they do need attention. I find outlets for myself and it works, I do have facial hair still though lol. I don't know how i feel about that day to day but sometimes I like it and leave it alone and other days I shave it off it's a balancing act that is inevitable at least for me. So I would think long and hard about any hormone treatment. Try first expressing those needs and see if it helps and if not then at least you can say you tried everything yeah?

I agree with Shii, in that I think it is always worth trying other things before turning to hormones.

I think I agree with Shii and Nicky, at least in a sense.  Try lots of things that are less drastic than hormones before trying hormones.  I would say try everything less drastic than hormones, but depending on how you define "everything", that could take your entire life.

The HBIGDA/WPATH Standards of Care suggests some "adaptations" that have "helped people find more personal comfort," whether or not they opt for hormones and surgery.  Like the rest of the SoC (as far as I can tell), these can sort of be applied to androgynes, even though they generally refer to a binary.

QuoteBiological Males:
1. Cross-dressing: unobtrusively with undergarments; unisexually; or in a feminine fashion;
2. Changing the body through: hair removal through electrolysis or body waxing; minor
    plastic cosmetic surgical procedures;
3. Increasing grooming, wardrobe, and vocal expression skills.
Biological Females:
1. Cross-dressing: unobtrusively with undergarments, unisexually, or in a masculine
    fashion;
2. Changing the body through breast binding, weight lifting, applying theatrical facial hair;
3. Padding underpants or wearing a penile prosthesis.
Both Genders:
1. Learning about transgender phenomena from: support groups and gender networks,
    communication with peers via the Internet, studying these Standards of Care, relevant lay
    and professional literatures about legal rights pertaining to work, relationships, and public
    cross-dressing;
2. Involvement in recreational activities of the desired gender;
3. Episodic cross-gender living.

I tried a lot of these kinds of things without really thinking too much about why I was doing them; I didn't really want to admit a gender issue to myself.   For me, these included doing ballet (not to say anything bad about male ballet dancers generally, but part of the reason I liked it is that it made me feel more feminine), extensive body hair removal, more feminine undergarments, and experimentation with women's clothing and makeup to the extent that I found it possible to do it safely.