I thought the question was whether androgyne was synonymous with genderqueer -- gender[frack], as far as I've seen, does refer to intentionally obnoxious presentation, just like you say it should. But either way, I agree. Androgyne sounds more an identity while the others have more to do with presentation, roles and all that, and with a clear anti-binary twist.

  Nfr

it was, i got my memory wrong.

I agree completely.  For some reason, when I hear 'gender[frack]', it makes me think of a teenager who's rebelling against their parents/school/etc.  Not that that's the only thing it means, but that's the image I get.  Good video!


...Now I have this urge to run around saying "I'm a gender[frack]er!!!"  >

Hehe.

Quote from: Jaimey on September 08, 2008, 05:58:25 PM
...Now I have this urge to run around saying "I'm a gender[frack]er!!!"  >

Troublemaker!!!! 

I personally don't care for the "****" term myself.

I like it - hey gender[frack]ers, whats up?

To me the term applies to people purposefully going against the grain using an extreme mix of presentations. I would have been into it when I was younger but I don't feel the need to shock people so much anymore. All my 'gender[frack]ing' is purely personal expression these days.

Every time I hear/see the word 'gender[frack]' it makes me giggle, because it's just such an odd word. I have no problem, with the word '[****]' and actually I use it a lot sometimes, though not here on these boards.

I do however, agree that 'gender[frack]' is purely a term of expression or how you show yourself to the world but it's not an identity like androgyne.

Basically 'gender[frack]' is '[messing about] with gender' going against the grain, being different, etc, but usually it's done with the intent to be intentionally shocking and/or obnoxious (at least it seems that way) but not always.

Edit- Yeah I know I'm over 2 weeks late on this I haven't been on the boards much lately, but I just now was able to watch this video.

*applauds* 

Great video! You got me laughing at "I'm a gender[frack]"

Perhaps genderqueer/gender[frack] describes something more fluid than androgyne?

Is androgyne a combination of the binary? Or, is androgyne a third option? If it's a third option, then perhaps genderqueer/gender[frack] are a fourth, or maybe a fourth & fifth?

It does seem to me that androgyne is an identity and genderqueer/gender[frack] is an expression of an identity.


Posted on: September 28, 2008, 09:51:03 am

---

My last reply wasn't as lucid as I intended, so here we go again.

In a sort-of crass way, the tern "gender[frack]" is an apt one. It seems to imply, to me, a person who openly and publicly challenges the ideas of what is socially constructed gender. As such, yes, it is an expression but not necessarily an identity.

"Genderqueer," to me, isn't necessarily as openly confrontational "gender[frack]," but it could be. From what I've noticed, there seems to be political ideas associated with the word "queer." Bigots use the word as contemptuous. But, there are those who self-identify as queer as an expression of challenge towards societal "norms."

I don't care for the term "gender[frack]" as it seems unnecessarily harsh and crass. I don't quite care for "genderqueer" either, as one of the main definitions of the word queer is in essence strange or abnormal. So, I prefer the phrase "gender fluid." To me, it implies the same concepts as described by "gender[frack]" and "genderqueer," but in a less confrontational manner.

I never set out to **** with people's concept of gender identity. Nor do I think there's anything all that strange or abnormal about what I am and how I identify myself. There are days when I feel "masculine" as defined by society and days when I feel "femminine" as defined by society. This to me is fluid, and so I prefer "gender-fluid."

Ahem-- Kind of a clear violation of the TOS, Rule 11.

I'm a former U.S. Marine, and can swear up a storm when it suits me.  So the choice of words does not bother me personally.

It does, however, give ammunition to those who would shut down Susans -- just look at the Yes on Prop 8's use of Mayor Gavin Newsom's phrase, "whether ya' like it or not!" in their TV ad.

The concepts can be discussed, certainly, and I find it a good concept to discuss.

I'm reminded of an episode of Moonlighting where Dave and Maddie are arguing about something at the end of the show.  Maddie keeps saying "I don't give a fig!".  After a few of these, Dave says, "I don't know what you mean by 'fig'."  Maddie says "I don't either, but," she turns to the camera, "THEY do!"

Quote from: Karen on October 12, 2008, 03:18:52 PM
I'm reminded of an episode of Moonlighting where Dave and Maddie are arguing about something at the end of the show.  Maddie keeps saying "I don't give a fig!".  After a few of these, Dave says, "I don't know what you mean by 'fig'."  Maddie says "I don't either, but," she turns to the camera, "THEY do!"

Hmmmm, genderfig video doesn't have quite the same zing 

Z

not when it is about the inappropriateness of the term, you gotta use the term

It still has a certain kick to it don't it? I guess that is why it is so effective.

To shock, to get noticed, to cause a reaction. It has even worked here and we are not polite company =D

Yes, what Pica said.

Furthermore, please note that the term in question has its own entry in Susan's wiki. In my view this is one more argument that it has become sufficiently detached from the f word that its use wouldn't automatically be a violation of the obscenity ban in the ToS. Then again, I don't have the authority to interpret the ToS, Karen does.

  Nfr

oh its fine to mute the forum bit here, just the not video