What do you think?



I think Obama totally kicked McCain's tail this time around. McCain hardly answered any of the questions he was asked. I didn't even know it was possible for a man to say NOTHING with so many words. I just can't wait for the VP debates... Palin has dreadful speaking skills and a shrill voice that gives me heartburn.

It's hard to say.  I'm a total Obama supporter, but I unfortunately could only catch the last half hour or so of the debate.. however, most of the pundits seem to think the debate was a tie.  From what I saw, I'd agree with that.

The VP debates will be a ridiculously awesome bucket of FAIL for Palin!

well Obama did more then just pwned in the debate as you put it elwood . more like Obama put mccain str8. and told the truth . 

I think if you think that anyone give have a crap about anything they say I want have a hit of whatever it is you're on.  People don't care.  They want style not substance.  They want the person too looks right, not says what's right. 

For the record, I don't think Obama said much more than McSame did.  Same bailout of their fat cats and sticking us with the bill.

Thanks, but no thanks.  I can not vote for Obama anymore.

Quote from: tekla on September 28, 2008, 08:56:04 PMI think if you think that anyone give have a crap about anything they say I want have a hit of whatever it is you're on.  People don't care.  They want style not substance.  They want the person too looks right, not says what's right. 

For the record, I don't think Obama said much more than McSame did.  Same bailout of their fat cats and sticking us with the bill.

Thanks, but no thanks.  I can not vote for Obama anymore.

Um, okay? Apparently some people DO care (the mature ones, in my opinion) and actually consider a candidates views and plans when they vote. ->-bleeped-<-, the debates are McCain's last chance to get my vote. I'm listening very carefully to what they both say, and it's hard, because McCain does not voice his actual plans very well. He spends a lot of time telling stories, patting his back, and kicking sand in Obama's eyes. I still don't know what McCain feels about the current economic situation. He was asked like 3 times and never explained it. Am I going to vote for the guy who has a plan or the guy who won't even talk about his plan? And at least Obama's plans sound reasonable.

As for looking right, do you like McCain 'cos he's white? Or is the new thing that's "in" old men?

Obama said a ->-bleeped-<-load more than McCain did. He wants to reverse what taxes look like now, invest in American-only coporations (lessen outsourcing), and focus on issues within our borders. He wants taxes on the middle class and lower class American to be lower, and the taxes on those who are better off to be higher. The only thing McCain said that really had substance is that he wants to lower the business tax so that we don't have to compete with other countries (here the business tax is around 35% and in some European countries it's only 11%). THAT made sense. The ONE thing McCain said did make sense to me.

As for bailing out, sure, McCain did a HELL of a lot of that. Obama? He always answered the question. Even better, he'd politely defend himself from McCain's attacks instead of insulting him.

Your kidding me right?  As both of these guys want to take $81K out of your life, so that their pals in the finance industry don't have to lose the house in Aspen, and in the Keys, and the place in Bear Valley, and the one in the Hamptons too.  Oh. so sorry your investment plans didn't work out for you, please take my small paycheck as a reward for your totally moranic and idiotic decisions - as I'd hate to see you suffer and see you lose like one out of your five or six houses.

Yeah, sign me up for that.

Mature persons, understand that one candidate supports American Corporate Welfare, and the other candidate, pretty much does the same.

Do you really think that anyone who made their way up the Chicago Daily System is really a 'new' kind of political type, or is that pretty much the same as the old, with a new suit?

My, my!! Such cynicism, Kat!

Dan, I don't think tekla had in mind switching a vote to McSame from Obama. Something less direct than that.

The other thing many Americans don't seem to realize is that in most states there are always choices other than the two of the Big Two. Why, you can even write-in "Elwood Blues" if ya wanna.

Nikki

McCain and Obama are currently in competition for the title of Who Sucks Less.  Winner gets my vote.

My tally for this debate isn't Obama 1, McCain 0 but more accurately Obama 0.55, McCain 0.45.

I was more like Obama -1, McSame -5.  Its just a matter of who did worse.  Which was McSame.  But that's not like saying that Obama said anything.  Mater of the bluff and master of the proposition. But like, oh, say reality?  Yeah.  I'm still waiting.

You say this, tekla, as though the $81k is coming straight out of your pocket. There are billions of people in this country, and the money would be collected over a period of time. It would be spent and then the taxes would later cover a "debt." This is how the country runs-- it runs like most Americans, making payments now and actually having the money later. I find it fairly ignorant on your part to base your vote purely on one thing that was said in the debate, ignoring all other factors (what the men stand for, who they want to help, how they want to help their other plans, etc).

Supporting American Corporate Welfare  is necessary to keeping our economy stable. If you don't support the American economy, you might as well not support the people at all. Obama does not want to make cuts on business taxes the same way McCain does because Obama wants to cut taxes for the people, which is an action that is in direct opposition of your assumption.

Wow, you are certainly a racist, tekla. It doesn't really surprise me, though.

Writing in Elwood Blues is the same thing as not voting. It's a dead vote.

Hey, I'm not sure that not supporting Obama is the same as being racist..

Quote from: TamTam on September 29, 2008, 12:15:55 PMHey, I'm not sure that not supporting Obama is the same as being racist..

And his Chicago Daily System comment? 

(Just to add, I'm really not sure what pronoun tekla prefers. Could someone clarify?)

Well Ellwood, as a person who works, and pays taxes - a lot of taxes - it sure does come out of my pocket.  It comes out in taxes, in higher rates to borrow money, in less money there to borrow in the first place, and it comes out mostly, as it has done big time in the last 8 years - the money I make buys less and less all the time.  And I'm sure I'm not the only working person in here who find the money they make going a lot shorter than it did, and if you do foreign stuff, the price has gone through the roof.

First, do you think this will really work?  Can good money chase bad and make out OK?  Has the money that has been put into all this to date done any good.  Obviously not, or we wouldn't be having a crisis now would we.  So what reason do we have to think that this will work? 

That they had to rush it through  - Oh don't bother reading it, we just need you to vote yes - and then they had to declare what is called 'martial law' in the Congress, suspending the normal rules.  Why, well it wasn't going to pass with the normal rules.  And it does not look good even with that.

And when this gravy train pull out from the station it gonna have a whole lot of cars attached to it.  Detroit, got $25 Billion.  Others will step up and demand a bailout too.

By the way... Given the record of the Bush Administration, do you really trust them to make this work.  Like what?  After 7 years they finally figured out how to do it right, for once?  Why do I doubt that.

How do we make that money back?  After buying stocks and bonds that are referred to by the people who trade them as 'junk' and 'toxic' are they suddenly going to become golden?  If they are worthless today - and they are, that's the foundation of the problem - how are they going to be worth more in the future?

This is socialism, bad socialism at that.  The worst parts with nothing good.


And the Daley Machine is just that, big city boss rule politics that have been pretty much unchanged since the days of Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall in NYC back a couple centuries ago.  It has to do with how major cities are frequently run in the US (and in other places too).  The Daley machine, these political machines took corruption to levels of making it rival art, and sustain their power over generations.  The current Daley is the son of the famous Richard J. the boss of bosses.  There is nothing racist about it.  Matter of fact, these machines have been good for minority groups as a whole.

I prefer Doctor, if you must use something other than my name.

And Obama is the man who wants to lower taxes on the "working class" person.

Do I think it will work? No. Do I think Obama will actually get congress and the senate to allow him to spend this money? No. But what I do know is that a lot of the good things he wants to do WILL pass. Politics isn't 100%. Obama isn't going to get to spend that money-- not all at once like that. The other powers won't let him. There's just no way.

It's pretty simple. We won't be making any money back. The nation is in panic right now. The DOW went down 400 today because of the bailout bill. It's pretty obvious in my view that REGARDLESS of who is in office, we can look forward to a depression if not a recession. No president can stop that from happening. Stupid people will panic, and the economy will crash-- again. What we may be able to effect is how bad that crash really is.

By pronoun I meant "he" or "she." That's never been made clear to me... people switch it. You've got the attitude of a self-righteous man but you do get a lot of "she"s.

Sayin that 'he's the man whose going to do it, except that he will not get it done' is far from a ringing endorsement.

I mean there isn't a whole lot of other options, what an insane guy running with a religious nut case who thinks that dinosaurs and man co-existed and that teaching 'just say no to sex' is proven as a good idea by her preggers 18 year old?  Nah, not much of a choice there.

The DOW is overpriced (as is the housing market), so a 'market correction' was long past due, should have happened in the 90s, but the dot-com deal got in the way. 

We are already in a recession, so a depression is the only way this can go.  But depressions do not affect everyone the same.  Funny enough, Po' Folk know better how to get along being Po and all.  So they tend to suffer less.  The people who are going to eat it, and eat it raw, are the traders, the market guys, the bank people, and the real estate people, all of whom share some blame for these antics in the first place.

And hey, there is no money to spend.  The debt is at the largest levels its ever reached, so there is no tax cut, can't be one, they need the money to be sure.

Um, I am NOT voting for him because of the $81K proposal. It's actually a proposal I don't like, but I am not threatened by the proposal because I am certain he will not follow through. It is his other ideas I like, and those do have chances of passing. As far as I know, I do not like any of McCain's proposals, especially not with our current economic situation.

We may already be in a recession, but the recession can get deeper without being a depression.

I can be "po" just fine. I just don't look forward to the economy crashing, doctors losing their jobs, and my hormones being 10 years out of reach.

Aww heck, you are beyond poor, you don't even have a job and have never had a job - so for you, you can't lose what you don't have.  The new poor are going to be people who are not used to it as credit dries up, as credit cards are no longer usable, as college loans are much harder to get (much harder, as that's considered non-critical spending) and as no one can sell their house.  And its going to be hard for them, after all, they worked hard for most of their life to get ahead and its going to be a lot harder to do that, hell, its going to be all they can do to keep from falling further behind.

And its not going to take much more to push recession to depression, many feel that in critical areas of the economy we were there already.

I think what really happened (other than everyone in a tight election race voted AGAINST this bill) is that no one trusts Bush.  And why should they?

Okay?
You can call me what you want, but that doesn't make my views invalid or illogical.

You're actually kind of doing the same thing McCain does. You go off and tell stories instead of acknowledging the meat of an issue.

I heard this opinion of the debate, and of the two who spoke.

1.  The professional Poly Analyzer placed the debate as dead even.

     She went on to say that because McCain had been expected to do better this was a good step for Obama.

2.   That been said she went on to say Obama came off an a senior-level executive dude that could sale anything to anyone, but his Customer Satisfsaction after the sales is extremely low.

3.   On the other hand McCain comes across as an Implementation person that gets in the trenches with you, implements a plan and has great customer satisfaction afterwards, while garnering respect of his customers for a job well done.

In "T" terms, maybe this explains it.... Do you want a Silicone Breast Salesman to do your surgery, stating you need "FF" or do you want someone who does that surgery every day that reccomends "C" size?

I see McCain as not trying to sell anything to me , while every thing from Obama is Politic Sales spew.

And while placing me perhaps more towards the right, I want to say if Hillary was in this election I might be voting the other way.  I ask myself who do you trust?   I do trust that Hillary would be just as much a moderate liberal as Mr. Bill was.   I trust that McCain is his own man, and does things his way.  I do not trust Obama -- too many slurs that this country is not great. 

Just a thought. or two or three

Daisy

Though I never found Bill or Hillary to be 'moderate' - and for the record, nor do I favor any sort of moderate position when faced with real issues, real problems, and real trouble at our door.  I mean, FTR again, I never considered Bill a 'real' Democrat.

But I think that McCain, should he lose the election, will look to today as the day his ship sank.  He staked a lot on going back to 'straighten out DC and get this vote in" and he could not get the people of his own party on board.  If you can't control the party, your sure not going to control the nation.

At any rate, its not the reporters who really run and control the debate, but its far more of a superficial reaction on the part of those (and who are these people anyway) who, given what has been going on for years now, have still not made up their minds.

Now, for party types like me its pretty easy.  I was going to vote blue, because I always vote blue, I can't imagine ever voting for a Republican.  Hell, I voted for the stripper when she ran against Arnold, if only because her idea of taxing lap dances was one more revenue producing idea then her competition had.  It wasn't a great one.  It was not going to solve the problem.  But hey, at least it was one concrete plan, which put her way ahead.


A quote from someone who was rather misunderstood in his time, and a quote that pretty much lost him the presidency in '64, but I'm not sure he was all that wrong.

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."