Hey,

One thing I don't understand is why don't some go the FULL way and opt for SRS. I mean what kind of women would want to have a penis?

This is only my opinion, I have respect for those that don't want to have SRS. But again, I think it is not normal. We are created as either male or female with of course distinct private parts.

I don't understand why someone would want to keep their male parts? And again, if that's what you want, I'll still respect you and your desicion. But to me that is not what I think is a proper solution.

Enough with that, I'm starting to think about NOT transitioning. to make a long story short, I decided that the cost of transitioning is tremendous even though I still may suffer.

My desicion isn't final till tmrw morning though. So I will keep you ladies updated.

For those that are deciding to transition. Well, you have all my respect. encouragement and gratitude. I will treat to you just as any normal human being.

In my case, If I don't transition, justice eventually will prevail. With time all injustices and wrong doings upon (wo)mankind will be fixed. Even if I die, I'm sure in heaven I will be a woman not a man. God is watching...

Unfortunately, some people aren't created distinctly male or female, and ambiguous genitalia are just as real and natural as "pure" male & female.  The gender binary really is illusory - it's not even a spectrum, but a multi-dimensional range of characteristics.  There just happen to be two particular probability clouds within this space, where maybe 95% of people are located.  It's very much like the electron shells of atoms - they define a space where you have a certain probability of having an electron at any given moment.

Anyway, I don't see how your decision can ever be final, as long as you're still alive.  You can always have a change of heart.   

Hi, I personally would become a complete woman if I could. My situation though is that at this time I cant. But when I think about what I really want for my body I'd probably have to spend about $100.000! If I do ever transition its all or nothing! And yeah I would be extremely happy!

Quote from: Tanya1 on October 03, 2008, 10:30:35 PM
Hey,

One thing I don't understand is why don't some go the FULL way and opt for SRS. I mean what kind of women would want to have a penis?

This is only my opinion, I have respect for those that don't want to have SRS. But again, I think it is not normal. We are created as either male or female with of course distinct private parts.

I don't understand why someone would want to keep their male parts? And again, if that's what you want, I'll still respect you and your desicion. But to me that is not what I think is a proper solution.

Some people don't base their decision on what is 'normal'.  There's nothing wrong with being abnormal.

"We are created as either male or female with of course distinct private parts. " Then explain transsexuals existing... Some women are born with a penis, some men without one.

"But to me that is not what I think is a proper solution. "  What is the correct solution or path to take for one person may not be the best path to take for another.  There is no one-size-fits-all correct transition path.  What is the "FULL way" for one person may not be the "FULL way" for another.

transition and surgery are such intimate, personal and complicated issues that for one to understand all the motives of another may be impossible.  i would think that someone who "wants" to keep their penis probably doesn't fit the classic definition of transsexual.  they probably are more like what we think of as "->-bleeped-<-".  so you might render that down to this question:  "if grs would not be a financial burden, if surgery were risk free, if no one else would be harmed by your change...then would you have surgery?"  that's really a lot of qualifiers, some might preclude the surgery for some and not for others.

in my case, surgery was penciled in as a destination when i began my transitional journey.  i knew there were so many factors to be taken into account that i didn't have enough experience with to make a rational decision about.  i didn't put pressure on myself and i didn't allow anyone else to pressure me into a decision.  i felt that being whole was what the process was about, discovering what would make me whole, not arriving at the conclusion without the evidence.

although appearance is important, i found that it really wasn't nearly as important as i believed in the beginning.  as you say, i could have spent my entire fortune and mortaged every bit of my future in the name of appearance and in the end it would leave me anyway.  i worked with my therapist on setting realistic and reasonable goals, one step at a time...accepting that perfection was an illusion to begin with, so setting those boundaries helped me make better decisions.

i warmed and chilled several times during all that process towards grs.  there was one period where i thought that surgery might not be for me. not that i wanted to keep my penis, but that i could live with it.  yes, some then began calling me a "wannabe", not really transsexual...but they weren't me and they weren't making decisions for me so i pretty well just let that be.  one's surgical status states nothing of their inner gender in my opinion.  a true transsexual can be pre-op, post-op or non-op and still be just exactly who they are on the inside.  it's just way above my paygrade to judge why or when another might take such a profound decision.

i say just let it go, let it flow.  decisions you make are your own and in the end you are the only one you owe any explanation to.  yes, those you love and what the repercussions for them might be are serious considerations, but the decision has to be yours.  I say that with this caviot...my annie finally said..."for crying out loud....will you just do it already and get it over with?"  ok.

Okay I decided not to transition and as of now it is final.

To the poster about what is normal and what is not? I will say this, transsexuals, men born without penises, and woman with penises- It is a birth defect that needs to be corrected. Transsexuals are given medical treatment to alleviate their GID so their brain confirms properly with their body.

And about people having both gender identities, etc- Again that too is a disorder. I believe that disorder should be corrected b/c nature created two sexes. And no, I'm not trying to offend anyone, so please don't take it the wrong way at all. This is only my opinion. I will treat any "->-bleeped-<-" with respect that they deserve. I'm not those narrow minded folks.

And again my perception may change. If my GID begans to get really serious within 2 years I'm going to plunk down 100K or whatever it takes to fix my body. If I need $1 million dollars, so be it. If I need $2 billion so be it. I can afford it easily.

But to all who are transitioning, my blessings and heart goes to you all. And I strongly advise you all to transition and start living like normal women.

Quote from: Tanya1 on October 04, 2008, 11:01:54 AM
Okay I decided not to transition and as of now it is final.

Best of luck with your decision Tanya!

It is an extremely difficult decision whether or not to transition, as the consequences can be severe either way. I know this all too well having once transitioned and then transitioned back. I now contemplate it again. It's never over, it doesn't go away. If your situation is different later, you can always transition then.

hugs,

Zythyra

Quote from: Tanya1 on October 04, 2008, 11:01:54 AM
To the poster about what is normal and what is not? I will say this, transsexuals, men born without penises, and woman with penises- It is a birth defect that needs to be corrected. Transsexuals are given medical treatment to alleviate their GID so their brain confirms properly with their body.

And about people having both gender identities, etc- Again that too is a disorder. I believe that disorder should be corrected b/c nature created two sexes. And no, I'm not trying to offend anyone, so please don't take it the wrong way at all. This is only my opinion. I will treat any "->-bleeped-<-" with respect that they deserve. I'm not those narrow minded folks.

Nature did not create only two sexes, nature created a spectrum (just one where most people are close to one of two poles).  In my opinion it's not anybody else's place to say whose body parts are defective and whose are not.  If a person is happy with a given sex characteristic or absence of sex characteristic there is nothing 'defective' about that part.  If nature created two sexes then the medical profession wouldn't see fit to perform genital surgery on infants to make them fit people's idea of normality.

The gender binary and sex binary are constructions of society and modern medicine.  If anything is unnatural it's those constructions, not the spectrum of identities and body types that exist in nature!

Anyway, how do you propose to 'fix' people who have 'both gender identities'?  We haven't found a way of altering people's gender identities yet, just altering their bodies to match.

hi tanya.  your decision to transition or not to transition is yours and yours alone.  your attitude about gender is as valid as the next person's.  i certainly take no offense that your decision is different then mine.  i did try your shoes on but they didn't fit so i couldn't walk a mile in them...don't matter...as long as they fit you.

when i did my grs i called it "crossing the event horizon".  it was at that point that the bridges were burnt, there was no going back, you're in it for the long haul.  at any point before that i reserved to right to change my mind and chart an entirely new course if i were so disposed.  i think it wise of you to not allow yourself to be captured in the event horizon unless and until you are fully willing to accept whatever the consequences might be and know that some of those consequences might be unforseen.

transition might not be quite as profound as crossing the event horizon but it is alot like squeezing the toothpaste out of the tube.  you can get it back in but it'll probably always be lumpy and uneven after that.  the cat's out of the bag, the horses have left the barn...all of that.  i think that not doing it doesn't take the conviction that doing it does, so being sure up front is really the smart thing to do.  again the caviot...sometimes when we don't make decisions they will make themselves...and not always in our best interest.  good luck and God bless with...

There are only 2 sexes & 2 genders.  Anything else is a variation of those two.  There's no "spectrum".  Such opinion is normally reinforced by those peeps that don't conform with the gender binary. Transsexuality is a birth anomaly, brain and body mismatch. This is why it's treated medically with HRT & surgery. Transsexuals are either male or female but not "something else".

hi yvonne.  i can't make any sense out of the "spectrum" idea either.  thing is, i know some awfully bright and real people who do, so i think it could be something that exists, just out of my view.  credibility is lent when i become aware of my own deep felt suspicion of "absolutes".

you can call it an illness, a syndrome a pathology or whatever you wish...but i have met a person who convinced me that "her" gender was variable.  i use her because it fits with biology and she often uses it herself in generic conversation.  this person, and i have witnessed it myself, can switch gender in the middle of a conversation.  i don't know what triggers it, or what it might be called...but it is real, of that i am convinced.  i don't get it, don't get it at all...but...there it is.

Quote from: pennyjane on October 04, 2008, 11:50:52 AM
this person, and i have witnessed it myself, can switch gender in the middle of a conversation.  i don't know what triggers it, or what it might be called...but it is real, of that i am convinced.

Multiple Personality Disorder, perhaps?

Quote from: Yvonne on October 04, 2008, 11:38:18 AM
There are only 2 sexes & 2 genders.  Anything else is a variation of those two.  There's no "spectrum".  Such opinion is normally reinforced by those peeps that don't conform with the gender binary. Transsexuality is a birth anomaly, brain and body mismatch. This is why it's treated medically with HRT & surgery. Transsexuals are either male or female but not "something else".

Hmm, this could descend into a rather pointless arguments over definitions.  There is male and female yes but people can identify as one or the other, both, neither or somewhere between.  People's bodies either by birth or by medical technologyy can be somewhere between too.  Gender identity is certainly not binary, such a view is easily discredited by finding just one person who identifies otherwise (remember an identity is a conscious thing).

I agree about the brain and body mismatch, that's indeed what I experienced and what I sought treatment for.  I have been diagnosed as being gender dysphoric and have had surgery however I am not male or female identified. I altered my sex not to make my body male or female but to make it "something else".

Quote from: pennyjane on October 04, 2008, 11:50:52 AM
hi yvonne.  i can't make any sense out of the "spectrum" idea either.  thing is, i know some awfully bright and real people who do, so i think it could be something that exists, just out of my view.  credibility is lent when i become aware of my own deep felt suspicion of "absolutes".

you can call it an illness, a syndrome a pathology or whatever you wish...but i have met a person who convinced me that "her" gender was variable.  i use her because it fits with biology and she often uses it herself in generic conversation.  this person, and i have witnessed it myself, can switch gender in the middle of a conversation.  i don't know what triggers it, or what it might be called...but it is real, of that i am convinced.  i don't get it, don't get it at all...but...there it is.

Hiya! Nothing wrong with being what you are.  If you're happy with what you are.  Be happy as what you are. I'm a very open-minded gal & I don't have any kind of prejudice against anybody.  Problem is that I've also met too many peeps that don't fit the medical definition of transsexual ...gender variant, ->-bleeped-<-, crossdresser... but hide behind the transsexual label aiming at some kinda medical or societal validation whilst I get lumped right along with them & medical treatment's denied to those peeps that genuinely need to correct their birth defect anomalies.  That pisses me off & I'm against that!  I'm bloody tired of peeps conveniently trying to change the definitions to their advantage!

Quote from: Yvonne on October 04, 2008, 12:21:44 PMProblem is that I've also met too many peeps that don't fit the medical definition of transsexual ...gender variant, ->-bleeped-<-, crossdresser... but hide behind the transsexual label aiming at some kinda medical or societal validation whilst I get lumped right along with them & medical treatment's denied to those peeps that genuinely need to correct their birth defect anomalies.  That pisses me off & I'm against that!  I'm bloody tired of peeps conveniently trying to change the definitions to their advantage!

The medical definition has altered in the past to be more inclusive.  It used to exclude people who weren't heterosexual (see the Harry Benjamin Scale for example). 

"medical validation": well I've had that (not that I feel my identification needs external validation).  "societal validation", I don't need the transsexual label to get that, indeed given the level of stigma attached to the label it may be better avoided!

"medical treatment [...] genuinely need to correct their birth defect anomalies": been there, done that.

Quote from: Andra on October 04, 2008, 12:09:09 PM
I agree about the brain and body mismatch, that's indeed what I experienced and what I sought treatment for.  I have been diagnosed as being gender dysphoric and have had surgery however I am not male or female identified. I altered my sex not to make my body male or female but to make it "something else".

I think this is what transition is all about. Altering the body in a way that you can be comfortable with it. Some may not need to change as much as others.

Let's not cite the Benjamin scale because then most peeps will be disqualified.  I may be young but I'm not dumb & I'm not "new" at this either.  I've met too many gender variant peeps that right out lied through their teeth in therapy to get what they wanted as "transsexual" whilst they wanted to live as "something else".  It worked out ok for them for a couple of years but societal pressure was too much that they reverted to their original birth sex or transitioned fully to the other as depression set in.  It'd be ideal to live in a society where gender variant peeps lived happily as what they identify but the reality is that we don't live in a society like that, do we?  I know some peeps don't care about what others think & take drastic measures without thinking about the consequences.  If they can pull it off being content with who they are in a binary world, more power to them & good for them, but if not, that's the cost they've got to pay unfortunately.  Not trying to be unkind just matter of fact.

Quote from: Yvonne on October 04, 2008, 12:58:14 PM
Let's not cite the Benjamin scale because then most peeps will be disqualified.  I may be young but I'm not dumb & I'm not "new" at this either.  I've met too many gender variant peeps that right out lied through their teeth in therapy to get what they wanted as "transsexual" whilst they wanted to live as "something else".  It worked out ok for them for a couple of years but societal pressure was too much that they reverted to their original birth sex or transitioned fully to the other as depression set in.  It'd be ideal to live in a society where gender variant peeps lived happily as what they identify but the reality is that we don't live in a society like that, do we?  I know some peeps don't care about what others think & take drastic measures without thinking about the consequences.  If they can pull it off being content with who they are in a binary world, more power to them & good for them, but if not, that's the cost they've got to pay unfortunately.  Not trying to be unkind just matter of fact.

All too true sadly.  I was lucky to have understanding therapists who I could be honest with.  I had to be honest with my surgeon too since I didn't want the standard male-to-female reassignment operation.  You're right though, being out a non-binary can make for a difficult life and there's no point pretending otherwise.  Things are getting better in that regard, but they've still got a long way to go. Therapists really should be able to help people make that decision rather than putting people in the position of having to lie to get any treatment.

hi mari.  no, at least in my friend's case i dont suspect mpd.  her personality doesn't change that much, but her sense of gender does.  she is perfectly aware of this and knows herself when it's happening.  she doesn't make a scene about it and the pesonifications are pretty subtle.

i do know people though that seem to have two very different personalities...one male and one female.  some i've met live very comfortably in that way.  they are in control and use whatever they gain from the split to enhance their overall selves.  if it were a problem i don't think that integration as we think of with mpd would meet with much success, i think the dynamic is very different and is much more about gender then protective custody.  some similarities and maybe even some relationship, but still each, as i see it, stand-alone.

Quote from: Yvonne on October 04, 2008, 11:38:18 AM
There are only 2 sexes & 2 genders.  Anything else is a variation of those two.  There's no "spectrum".  Such opinion is normally reinforced by those peeps that don't conform with the gender binary. Transsexuality is a birth anomaly, brain and body mismatch. This is why it's treated medically with HRT & surgery. Transsexuals are either male or female but not "something else".

I agree, I have had nearly 15 years to think about and analyze this condition. I beleive that you either are or you are not. I for one never would want to be somewhere in between (physically) to me it seems as awful as my current condition. I just want to be a normal woman, nothing more nothing less!

I think people that do not wish to be completely male or female may be suffering from something other than transexualism! this is not meant to be condemning it is only my opinion, I grew up in a awful environment and from the time I was 12 all I wanted was to be normal, but I could not tell anyone about it.

Posted on: October 04, 2008, 03:17:58 pm

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Quote from: Yvonne on October 04, 2008, 12:21:44 PM

Quote from: pennyjane on October 04, 2008, 11:50:52 AM
hi yvonne.  i can't make any sense out of the "spectrum" idea either.  thing is, i know some awfully bright and real people who do, so i think it could be something that exists, just out of my view.  credibility is lent when i become aware of my own deep felt suspicion of "absolutes".

you can call it an illness, a syndrome a pathology or whatever you wish...but i have met a person who convinced me that "her" gender was variable.  i use her because it fits with biology and she often uses it herself in generic conversation.  this person, and i have witnessed it myself, can switch gender in the middle of a conversation.  i don't know what triggers it, or what it might be called...but it is real, of that i am convinced.  i don't get it, don't get it at all...but...there it is.

Hiya! Nothing wrong with being what you are.  If you're happy with what you are.  Be happy as what you are. I'm a very open-minded gal & I don't have any kind of prejudice against anybody.  Problem is that I've also met too many peeps that don't fit the medical definition of transsexual ...gender variant, ->-bleeped-<-, crossdresser... but hide behind the transsexual label aiming at some kinda medical or societal validation whilst I get lumped right along with them & medical treatment's denied to those peeps that genuinely need to correct their birth defect anomalies.  That pisses me off & I'm against that!  I'm bloody tired of peeps conveniently trying to change the definitions to their advantage!

Yvonne I feel the same way about this also, I think the lumping together of these different problems has done alot to hurt people like myself, I was so afraid growing up and watching Jerry Springer, that I would be seen as "Just Like" some of the ->-bleeped-<-s or drag queens.  I tried so hard to make myself not feel like I did. I was miserable.

Posted on: October 04, 2008, 03:22:15 pm

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Quote from: Yvonne on October 04, 2008, 12:58:14 PM
Let's not cite the Benjamin scale because then most peeps will be disqualified.  I may be young but I'm not dumb & I'm not "new" at this either.  I've met too many gender variant peeps that right out lied through their teeth in therapy to get what they wanted as "transsexual" whilst they wanted to live as "something else".  It worked out ok for them for a couple of years but societal pressure was too much that they reverted to their original birth sex or transitioned fully to the other as depression set in.  It'd be ideal to live in a society where gender variant peeps lived happily as what they identify but the reality is that we don't live in a society like that, do we?  I know some peeps don't care about what others think & take drastic measures without thinking about the consequences.  If they can pull it off being content with who they are in a binary world, more power to them & good for them, but if not, that's the cost they've got to pay unfortunately.  Not trying to be unkind just matter of fact.

I also agree, about the the amount of people that lie about their conditions to their therapists. I just recently discussed this issue with my therapist, because alot of what I experienced (when I was young) was not similar to the "Text-book" definition of what all young transexuals experience.

"Specifically the age that you knew for sure you were TS": See I always knew I was different from the other children but I did not know exactly why. I grew up in a very rural area and had very little contact with girls. Until I was about 9 or 10 yrs old I thought the only difference between boys and girls were their hair and clothes. I was always uncomfortable with my private areas and I would try to make it go away, but I was never sure why I was doing this.

My therapist said that alot of people who say they know from the time they are 3 or 4 yrs old eventually admit that they did not.

Why would anyone want to lie about this type of stuff, it is very serious, you go to a psychiatrist/psychologist to be treated, you need to tell the truth, if you are TS let the therapists diagnose it. I for one was hoping that maybe it was some kind of hormonal imbalance that could be fixed without a transition. So it is kinda difficult for me to understand a person who would go in and lie so they can be diagnosed TS, I just dont see how they could be suffering from the same thing as myself. This has been nothing happy, I have had a miserable life because of this condition, and on top of it I have made others lives miserable because of denial due to my upbringing!