I have seen this question in many times. It has no right or wrong answer. However I find it rather interesting.

The truth/facts may speak for themselves, but most people won't let them get in the way of a good argument.

I don't think facts speak for themselves for two reasons.

1) A fact always comes with an interpretaion, a fact by itself doesn't really have any meaning.

2) An objective fact, is pretty difficult to determine.

Are facts not tested by scientific method and empirical causation?

Quote from: lisagurl on October 04, 2008, 02:38:58 PM
Are facts not tested by scientific method and empirical causation?

often not sadly.

Quote from: lisagurl on October 04, 2008, 02:38:58 PM
Are facts not tested by scientific method and empirical causation?

but they interpreted in a social sense and don't mean a lot without interpretation.

If the facts told you that duck x had a bill, duck y had a bill, duck z had a bill - those are the facts. It is the interpretation that tell you that 'ducks have bills'.

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 04, 2008, 03:18:54 PM

Quote from: lisagurl on October 04, 2008, 02:38:58 PM
Are facts not tested by scientific method and empirical causation?

but they interpreted in a social sense and don't mean a lot without interpretation.

If the facts told you that duck x had a bill, duck y had a bill, duck z had a bill - those are the facts. It is the interpretation that tell you that 'ducks have bills'.

Also that in many situations, what can be defined as a fact and the sources from which said "facts" come from becomes questionable.

Quote from: lisagurl on October 04, 2008, 02:38:58 PM
Are facts not tested by scientific method and empirical causation?

Rarely.  Take transsexualism.  Many people reject the idea that it is a real thing. Yet, the fact that there are thousands of us from diverse backgrounds screams that it is.

There are many ways to interpret facts.

Cindi

QuoteMany people reject the idea that it is a real thing

Many people voted for Bush also. The subjective view of people does not determine fact. That is the biggest flaw in a democracy.

Transsexualism is a word that describes changing gender. It does not pose any facts. Psychology is a young practice which sometimes uses the scientific method but has difficulty separating human interference with the science.

Hi,

     I didn't vote because I don't have much of a grip on the idea of facts. I'm not kidding. I seem to be nearly entirely intuitive. Sometimes at work, I do the opposite of what my knowledge and experience tells me to do and it sometimes work.

     I don't understand "what is a fact?" To me, nothing is permanent. Everything from mass to matter to energy are in flux. Whatever fits today will not fit tomorrow.

     I guess you can say that it's a fact that the word 'juice' has five letters, but does it really?  Should you be counting the letters 'I' & 'E'?  They are not pronounced. So, are they even really there? So, you might say it's a fact that the word 'juice' in the English language has 5 letters when written and maybe 3 letters when spoken. You now have 2 different facts concerning the amount of letters in one word.
     As I said, I'm not joking. I honestly don't feel that I can understand the concept of facts.

    My point is that everything is confusing to me. Anytime I believe something is true, it changes.
   
    I'm not trying to be a pinhead but, apparently, seems to come naturally to me.

QuoteIf the facts told you that duck x had a bill, duck y had a bill, duck z had a bill - those are the facts. It is the interpretation that tell you that 'ducks have bills'.

The only facts you have are 3 ducks have bills.You do not have enough information or size sample to make any interpretation except a subjective guess. Which is not a fact, merely a personal view. Logic is a type of math. As with all math garbage in garbage out.

well, that is because I didn't want to write that "such and such duck had a bill" many thousands of times. I reckoned you would get bored reading it, and I certainly would get bored writing it. A bit of sense please.

But you also need to know the total amount of ducks and the size of the sample then you could say that the probability of ducks with bills is X

Still not a fact only a hypothesis.

so, it's a fact that it's a hypothesis?

Quote from: Rebis on October 05, 2008, 07:23:22 PM
so, it's a fact that it's a hypothesis?

Fact=
Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.

Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed:

Now does it meet that criteria?

Do you have a sense of humor?   

Quote from: Rebis on October 05, 2008, 07:38:09 PM

Do you have a sense of humor?   

Not when it comes to facts.

Oh.

A mathematician, a physicist, and an astronomer are on their way to Scotland. They cross the border and observe a black sheep in the middle of a field. "Look," exclaims the astronomer, "all Scottish sheep are black!" The physicist responds, "No, no! Some Scottish sheep are black!" The mathematician shakes her head, takes a breath and proclaims, "Ladies, all we can truly say is that in Scotland there exists at least one field, containing at least one sheep, at least one side of which is black."

And the sheep turns and says, "Shut the hell up. I'm trying to eat here!"