Now that is something serious.

I don't recommend ANY one lie about being TS. TS is no fun.

Be honest with yourselves, lying to therapists about TS conditions is not going to help in the long haul.

I also agree that therapists shouldn't embrass people and should be open-minded.

About people that want to get medical treatments such as crossdressers, other "something else" types...I believe therapists should try to make them take a much closer look at EXACTLY why they want this. Seeking short term solution and remedies will just make the problem worse than it has to be.

Taking hormones and surgery is not to be taken lightly, and as a 18year old it has been a very very, tough desicion for me. Especially when your being pressured so hard my narrow minded parents, family and friends. It's a real hard call.

Also take in the fact of my Singing career. Yes, I'm going to get into a Singing career and need to market myself as what Hollywood wants. 

Here's my advice and remember this is my opinion only so don't get angry at me...lol: If you think your TS, keep a journal. Write down thoughts every night. Write down how you felt and be honest when writing. Write down your life story as honestly as you can and analyze each aspect of it related to gender. This will take awhile. Then list out your consequences and rewards for transition.

And far most importantly, think LONG TERMLY. Imagine what you will be from now after becoming a women 30yrs down the road. Will you be a mother? Will you be a sister? Wife? Businesswoman? Are you PLEASED and FEEL AT PEACE with what you see?

Now picture yourself as a man? Are you feeling at peace as a man? 


Lastly, about the "something else" gender- again, it is very possible that their might be something as that. But I'll say it once more, it is a disorder. It's a serious one. Think about it: Every species to live needs to either be male or female. Having something in the middle will cause instinction.

And again, don't get angry at me. I'm not trying to flame anybody. This condition is also possible because of the brain development in the fetus being distracted by the mix of wrong amounts of hormones.

Also this is all THEORY. Some women are excellent in math. Some women are bad. Some men are excellent in math. Some are horrible.

The current medical treatment of TS is so far effective but it can be improved. I've heard of some committing suicide and some not happy, others being very successful. Maybe they were really TS, maybe they weren't. Same thing with any medical treatment.

My point is that one treatment is not for all. If I could improve the current medical treatment, I would highly recommend some funding on researching stem cells, changing chromosomes, DNA, organ transplants. The current GID treatments help but again improvements will make the life of TS women and men a lot better. A LOT!

Then comes the whole religion aspect. God doesn't want any human to suffer. If your suffering greatly from this then god isn't going to hate you. But this "spiritual" subject is a whole diff topic that causes much heated debates so I'll let you decide on your own about that.

Changing the brain is by far very difficult. Very difficult but it isn't impossible.

I've even heard of people that try to CHEAT the system. Your only cheating yourself. I read a story about some man who happened to have FORGED SRS letters and actually changed his sex to female through illegal means.

This man later on said "I can't have sex with women, I feel like a freak"

Looks like he was doing it for "kicks" and there are people that are like that. I strongly advise these type of folks also go to a therapist, and the therapist should also be open minded to try to resolve their sexual fantasy disorders. Problem with this guy was he was thinking short term. He defiantly was NOT TS. He was faking it and the results of his actions taught him a great lesson.   

I don't understand those people that also obtain all procedure for transition and don't actually LIVE like women. What are you doing? (Again, this is my opinion, anyone here is free to think otherwise)


Bottom line? You must put yourself into the future and think of the outcomes of changing sex. Changing sex is not something that can be done overnight nor changing sex will keep your life destiny the same. It won't!

I had to consider this very seriously due to my singing career(Even though I can be a female singer, women and men have different roles in the music industry) , family problems, results of the sex change procedures, inner peace and WHY I want this.

If you TRULY believe that living as a girl will give that peace and happiness you want, go ahead and do it. If right this moment you can see yourself very happy as being a girl, go ahead and do it.

But if you feel you need to be a girl and you truly feel like one but you feel your doomed to misery- then you are doomed to misery.

Sex changes are simply to help you MOVE ON with your life and they should be taken as such. If you can't move on with your life after getting a sex change, then I'm sorry, the medical treatment has failed for you. Sex changes are to help you straighten your mind so you can function as a normal man or woman. They are not placed so you can regret your decision and moan.

At the end of the day. A successful transition is simply a state of mind.

I calculated all my consequences critically, took a HARD look at myself, wrote down my thoughts honestly, and put myself into the future. I didn't seem to felt like I would find happiness. Why? I didn't feel like a real woman. And again, successful transition is a state of mind. I didn't feel that state of mind. Being a true woman is being happy with oneself. If you believe your defeated, you are. If you believe and FEEL like your a success, you are.

Being happy with oneself is all that matters. And if your a sex change ain't going to do that for you, then I strongly believe a big mistake has been made. Your not supposed to "want" to be a woman. You supposed NEED desperately to be a woman. Then again, a sex change sometimes doesn't even become effective for classical TS women.

"If your happy and content with yourself truly after a sex change, that's all that matters"

PS. Based on my philosophy and my opinion. Nobody here is said to be wrong.

Quote from: Tanya1 on October 04, 2008, 11:01:54 AM
Okay I decided not to transition and as of now it is final.

To the poster about what is normal and what is not? I will say this, transsexuals, men born without penises, and woman with penises- It is a birth defect that needs to be corrected. Transsexuals are given medical treatment to alleviate their GID so their brain confirms properly with their body.

And about people having both gender identities, etc- Again that too is a disorder. I believe that disorder should be corrected b/c nature created two sexes. And no, I'm not trying to offend anyone, so please don't take it the wrong way at all. This is only my opinion. I will treat any "->-bleeped-<-" with respect that they deserve. I'm not those narrow minded folks.

And again my perception may change. If my GID begans to get really serious within 2 years I'm going to plunk down 100K or whatever it takes to fix my body. If I need $1 million dollars, so be it. If I need $2 billion so be it. I can afford it easily.

But to all who are transitioning, my blessings and heart goes to you all. And I strongly advise you all to transition and start living like normal women.

Disorder is a matter of perspective. And the "->-bleeped-<-s" you respect prolly hate being called that. You should not stop dilating that un-narrow mind.

And please define "Normal woman". Submissive subservience and I cook stuff???

  The "->-bleeped-<-" coment .    I don`t think there are any ->-bleeped-<-s on here.

I simply said "->-bleeped-<-" because someone had pointed it out on one of the posts.

I never was the one to even mention that term. If you notice, I put quote marks on them referring to what others say or name as.

My god people seem to be so critical. Just relax, read all the posts again and you'll see that I never was the one to say that about anyone or use that term. And Yes, I think that term is also very offensive. It's widely used in porn and pretty degrading in it's intent. So don't get the wrong idea b/c I myself hate that term.

About "normal women", I wasn't implying about 'cooking stuff' or anything 'submissive'.

What I meant as 'normal' was to move on with your life and began to do other things like all other women do such as any hobbies, career goals, getting a boyfriend, marriage, kids... Reason I brought that up is because some get caught with transition soooo much that they forget to actually begin finally LIVING as a women. And I've seen it a lot. All they talk about is transition, surgery, hormones etc. Not that is wrong but sometimes they forget that it needs to end sometime and they should start thinking to move on and do other things.

That's what I meant, I didn't mean any stereotype hobbies or actions. 

i brought up the term ->-bleeped-<-.  it is a used term and has a rather specific definition.  i used the term in reference to tanya's wondering why any woman would "want" to keep her penis.  my point was, that sounded more like a ->-bleeped-<- to me then a transsexual.  i wanted to make the point that many can and do transition without even an iota of hope for getting the surgery...that doesn't mean they "want" to keep their penis', it just means they'll have to live with them.

i know a couple of "->-bleeped-<-s" who don't take the term as derogatory at all, it's what they are and they are ok in their own books.  if you aren't someone who wants to present as female and yet still love your penis, then the term does not apply to you.

i also know many transsexuals who move on after surgery with hardly a glance backwards...good for them!  for me, though i'm almost two years post-op, i have yet to even begin to get over the wonder and beauty of my transition.  it's the highlight of my life, a mountain i thought i'd never climb...i love still being connected with it, i hope i never lose the passion and compassion that have resulted.  i thank my God every day for it.  good for me!

Quote from: Zythyra on October 04, 2008, 11:13:49 AM

Quote from: Tanya1 on October 04, 2008, 11:01:54 AM
Okay I decided not to transition and as of now it is final.

Best of luck with your decision Tanya!

It is an extremely difficult decision whether or not to transition, as the consequences can be severe either way. I know this all too well having once transitioned and then transitioned back. I now contemplate it again. It's never over, it doesn't go away. If your situation is different later, you can always transition then.

hugs,

Zythyra

I contemplated transitioning four years ago and decided for certain that I wouldn't. Well, time changes things. Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on.

Also, you can bushwhack somewhere between the paths. It's okay -- causing erosion in this area is a good thing.

--

I study the simplest, most discrete aspects of nature that exist, yet the only binaries I understand or ever expect to observe are of the propositional calculus. Nothing in nature is completely clearcut. So I don't know how any very high-level emergent phenomenon such as sex or gender could possibly be truly binary.

Who wants to take a guess as to how long it takes for this topic to get locked?

Quote from: pennyjane on October 04, 2008, 10:02:34 PM
i brought up the term ->-bleeped-<-.  it is a used term and has a rather specific definition.  i used the term in reference to tanya's wondering why any woman would "want" to keep her penis.  my point was, that sounded more like a ->-bleeped-<- to me then a transsexual.  i wanted to make the point that many can and do transition without even an iota of hope for getting the surgery...that doesn't mean they "want" to keep their penis', it just means they'll have to live with them.

The terms transgenderist or non-op TS both describe women who choose to not have SRS.

Z

yes....for awhile i thought of myself as a non-op ts.  i had pretty well decided that surgery wasn't for me.  it wasn't that i "wanted" to keep my penis, there were many other reasons for my exceptional reticense at the time.  although i have often heard the terms transgenderist and ->-bleeped-<- used interchangably i wouldn't at all put non-op ts in that catagory....anyone who "wants" to hang on to their penis doesn't  sound like any form of transsexual to me.  again...<sigh>  i refer this back to it's origin...tanya's question about why any woman would "WANT" to keep her penis.  i share that question with her.  it doesn't make sense to me that a woman would "WANT" to keep her penis, eventhough i understand there are many very good reasons why many women end up doing just that.

Could we please just stop using the term "->-bleeped-<-" all together??  Please?  Yes it's a stereotype used in the porn industry but that doesn't mean we need to keep using it in reference to those who don't get full SRS.  There's no need to keep perpetuating this derogatory term within our own community and I for one think we all need to stop using it.

There are those who choose to have SRS because they feel complete in body and spirit by having a vagina.  However, there's also those who feel complete in body and spirit without a vagina, and simply undergo an Orchi or choose not to have surgery for a multitude of reasons.  That is a personal choice.

I'm of the latter group: I don't need to have a vagina because I'm completely female in mind and body and spirit now, having just gone through with my Orchi.  Whenever this debate comes up of what makes a "true" transsexual or a "real" or "normal" woman, I take it personally because I have to point out, again and again, that what is one's personal identity as female does not correlate with what surgeries they have or have not had, or what body parts they have or do not have.  Stop associating body organs with what makes a man or woman like cis-gendered people do, that's reverse trans-phobia.  If someone doesn't have SRS it doesn't mean they have a "penis," some of us choose to rename it (i.e. clitoris) because we see as a female part and ACCEPT it as a female part; as part of our female body.  I don't understand why that's so hard for others in our community to grasp!.

Not trying to be a bitch, I just have to speak up every time this conversation occurs because it seems everyone thinks they have the answers without asking those of us who are actually experiencing it.

Jenn

p.s. I hope this made sense, I'm sleepy and still on the painkillers so my writing might be messy...

Quote from: Tanya1 on October 04, 2008, 08:44:39 PM
I simply said "->-bleeped-<-" because someone had pointed it out on one of the posts.

I never was the one to even mention that term. If you notice, I put quote marks on them referring to what others say or name as.

My god people seem to be so critical. Just relax, read all the posts again and you'll see that I never was the one to say that about anyone or use that term. And Yes, I think that term is also very offensive. It's widely used in porn and pretty degrading in it's intent. So don't get the wrong idea b/c I myself hate that term.

About "normal women", I wasn't implying about 'cooking stuff' or anything 'submissive'.

What I meant as 'normal' was to move on with your life and began to do other things like all other women do such as any hobbies, career goals, getting a boyfriend, marriage, kids... Reason I brought that up is because some get caught with transition soooo much that they forget to actually begin finally LIVING as a women. And I've seen it a lot. All they talk about is transition, surgery, hormones etc. Not that is wrong but sometimes they forget that it needs to end sometime and they should start thinking to move on and do other things.

That's what I meant, I didn't mean any stereotype hobbies or actions. 

People can be more obsessed with their transition than being the gender they strived to be, sometimes... But seriously, how COULDN'T you? The science of doing this to yourself, is AMAZING. I've never seen more of what you should consider a miracle. My friends are amazed, and I'm shocked and relieved at the same time. It will take much longer to get over something that I've dreamt of since I was a kid. This is effectively the ONLY dream thats been coming true in my entire life that I thought of... So don't shun. I think its far too amazing to not analyze and think of. Also... Depression sucks. Most of us are depressed. Doing healthy hobbies is entirely a fight sometimes.

And...

Getting a boyfriend has absolutely nothing with being a girl. Just remember this... I happen to be kinda ghey.

Quote from: pennyjane on October 04, 2008, 10:02:34 PM
i brought up the term ->-bleeped-<-.  it is a used term and has a rather specific definition.  i used the term in reference to tanya's wondering why any woman would "want" to keep her penis.  my point was, that sounded more like a ->-bleeped-<- to me then a transsexual.  i wanted to make the point that many can and do transition without even an iota of hope for getting the surgery...that doesn't mean they "want" to keep their penis', it just means they'll have to live with them.

i know a couple of "->-bleeped-<-s" who don't take the term as derogatory at all, it's what they are and they are ok in their own books.  if you aren't someone who wants to present as female and yet still love your penis, then the term does not apply to you.

i also know many transsexuals who move on after surgery with hardly a glance backwards...good for them!  for me, though i'm almost two years post-op, i have yet to even begin to get over the wonder and beauty of my transition.  it's the highlight of my life, a mountain i thought i'd never climb...i love still being connected with it, i hope i never lose the passion and compassion that have resulted.  i thank my God every day for it.  good for me!

I'd beg to differ. You can still be transsexual and non-op. You don't have to treat your junk like a war criminal in order to know inside you're a girl. Thats meeting other peoples pre-drawn, bigoted expectations, and it greatly disturbs me that people get lumped into these pseudo categories like this. Like... Seriously. They might say they're ok with it but there are reasons I'd NEVER wanna be called a "->-bleeped-<-", even if I decided not to get SRS. Yes... It is true that being a woman with a penis is different and less traditionally feminine, however... You don't keep stamping that term on them to put them somewhere, especially when I know for sure that even being called a boy hurts me. Its like knowing someone died that your friend knew, and bringing it up. It may be that way in some respects, but you don't effing SAY it, cause thats not cool.

If you're dual gendered.. Fine. Call yourself ->-bleeped-<- all you want! That would actually make SENSE.

As for being non-op... Honestly... If I wanted to use the same method of applying observational truth on something, I could. Like...

Person with a penis and transitioned body=Not "Transsexual"=->-bleeped-<-! LOL

But I could also say something like...

Boy=person with a penis
Girly Boy=Person who transitioned and has a "neovagina" which is your penis tissue inverted and sculpted.

I'm not trying to make your womanhood any less legitimate, remember. I'm just trying to compare two things I find very similar.

I have known for a while now not to say things just because they are true from a certain point of view, because it HURTS PEOPLE. HURTS.

I'm just trying to say that basically, we're sculpted of putty. Whether it be surgical, or in the womb. I see no difference really... But If I really wanted to be mean, I could say that one putty has XY chromosomes in it, and one has XX. Sometimes a doctor can do wondrous things, because In my opinion, SRS is much more an ART form than it is a medical procedure. All have their own techniques... Its really like going back to the middle ages and seeing how different clans did things the way they did. Kinda sucky that we're stuck in such a primitive place, but on the other hand, I'd say some SRS results are prolly awesome, cause of EFFORT and PASSION involved... I hope??

Heres more food for thought. I have not had SRS. Do I go into a fit when I'm called a boy, and elaborated upon as not being able to do things girls do...

Stuff like, "Oh. You're SO LUCKY you don't have a period! Oh Hahha."
Do I react? No... I laugh along a little. Does that mean they're a terrible person...? Not really, they don't know really. Who would? Does it help my self esteem and roll off my shoulders? HELL NO! I want to cry when people say stuff like that. Yeah... It sucks bleeding once a month, but thats the point! You need a balance of things that suck and don't, and I'd prefer it were a period vs. anything else a guy gets like it. Unwanted erections... Thats a good one. (Thank you spiro... If you were a person, I'd seduce you.).

Its just my point.

A. People not objecting doesn't make it right to them and their life. Dubbing people is pretty stupid sometimes.

B. You don't say things that are true to your observation just because. Thats totally blind to what they may be feeling inside, and is totally terrible when you know the pain of a perceived truth that you don't need to hear OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

C. Screw the binary. It cannot explain the anomalies that occur cause of the zillions of chemicals we consume and drink and breathe in day by day that cause things that aren't one or zero. We can barely explain why a girl would have a boys body, let alone when mammals are born intersexed. There is probably no singular cause, and it may be a normal step in our evolution for all we know.

D. If you aren't hurting other people, or yourself, and you're different for some reason, its NOT A FREAKIN' DISORDER. Thats TERRIBLE. Thats the kind of thinking that keeps trans people stuck in all of the writings on MENTAL illness when I would argue its a PHYSICAL DEFECT which reflects in the mind and clashes. Imagine your body as a computer... Your hardware is your body. Your minds chemical processes is the operating system. Things you do in life is software. Why does the machine not work? Its cause you're trying to run software (everyday life) on the wrong operating system (chemical processes) and with TOTALLY incompatible hardware. No wonder trans people don't work so well in society sometimes... When to live a wrong to you role, is to shove a square peg in a round hole. HRT was awesome for me cause I'd be getting error messages from my male operating system saying stuff like, "This hardware is performing an illegal operation and will be shut down through you KILLING YOURSELF KID."
So when the program I was trying to run was blatantly for a female OS, I'd be getting messages saying it didn't work. Go figure. Finally HRT came, and I reinstalled my OS. It can now barely run those life programs better cause I'm running on the right juice. The right sort of system process. My hardware is wrong too... Pity. Second it was unwrapped you could hear that disappointed little kid silently crying. Why did they get a PS3 and not an X box 360 for example?! WHY? CAUSE we cannot get the universe to work for us I think.
So now I'm modifying the hardware to work better for the software I always dreamt of using since I was a little kid. Its been a long strange trip building this infernal machine! Its buggy sometimes cause I had the Male OS installed for so long and had no idea it was possible to switch over to the other OS. I never knew it was possible. Stupid me, this is so much better. Its still glitchy, but its working BETTER at least.

Is this the case for everyone in this analogy? No. Course not. Some people prefer to make their own operating systems in life to maximize how they personally utilize the hardware and run software. I mean, if Mac OSX is a girl system, and Windows is a boy system, surely we cannot ignore the Linux rig that someone makes? ^_^

Do you shun the Linux cause they don't perfectly fit in? If you did, I'd laugh at your force fed ideas of what is "good" or "works".

And lock this thread if you think its too interesting. That tends to happen way too much. After all... Palin can have a debate and still get a cheer at the end. Why can't smarter people do the same on a FORUM of all places? I mean... Locking a thread makes you acknowledge ideas on the interwebs are to be taken seriously. XD

Well, I may change my path but as of right now it seems that not transitioning feels right for some reason.

Today, I found out I have some other non-sex change related surgeries to take care of.

First I have a Asymmetrical face, also known as uneven jaw or Hemiafacial Atrophy (think I spelled it right?)

Basically a certain side of face is either over grown or stunted in growth. Either the jaw is misplaced improperly grown or something like that. It is a growth defect I believe. It can also be defective within the teeth. Can be caused by TMJ which mostly women have due to neurological problems or by uneven teeth. My neck is also hurting.

Also I have a deviated septum in my nose.

I'm going to see some reputable doctors about this. I'll see a dentist, orthodontist, plastic surgeon and I'm going to make all three of them talk to each other. Even if it costs me some extra consulting fees to have them talk to one another I will do it because all three of these doctors diff expertise and I have 3 diff problems that they can fix.

I'm first going to go to my dentist, talk about the problem with my uneven face, get some xrays to see if it is a problem with the teeth, jaw. Then see a orthodontist. talk to him about it and see if it is a problem with the jaw, neck or whatever. Get a full checkup and have the two talk together for a solution.

I'll then get surgery on that to fix it. Then I'll get braces. Finally a nose job for breathing problems/cosmetic reasons too.

Even though this isn't TS related...lol... What do you ladies think? I also want to go to top doctors/surgeons. I don't care if they are expensive either because I want docs who have a rep to protect and not their money to protect only.

you know what would be interesting?  if people actually read and made some effort to understand what they are disagreeing with. i don't know how many ways, or how many times i've said it.  ->-bleeped-<- DOES NOT DEFINE ANY TRANSSEXUAL...PRE-OP, POST-OP OR NON-OP.  ok....one more time...->-bleeped-<- DOES NOT DEFINE ANY TRANSSEXUAL...PRE-OP, POST-OP OR NON-OP.  ->-bleeped-<- defines a man who wishes..wants to...present himself entirely female...often breasts are involved...and yet WANTS to retain his penis.  he doesn't retain it because of any other reason then that HE WANTS TO.  yes, i am absolutely aware of the fact that one's gender identity is generated in the brain.  biology can be totally irrelevant to identity.  i had a penis for over a half a century and never believed i was anything but female... i always say and entirely believe..."i was every bit as much a woman the day before surgery as i was the day after."i am intimately aware of the relationship between gender and biology.  when i considered myself non-op ts it wasn't because i WANTED to keep my penis, i most certainly had no use for it, it was because there were factors around surgery that i felt precluded me from being a good candidate...many factors...none was the desire for a penis.

why is it that people want to be contentious instead of trying to understand what is being said?  argue first, figure out what you're arguing with later.  just doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

sometimes i think that people who take the use of the term too personally may actually have a relationship with their penis that they don't want to admit to.  if the term doesn't define you, why such personal offense?  why so irrationally defensive about it?

Quote from: pennyjane on October 05, 2008, 07:39:51 AM
you know what would be interesting?  if people actually read and made some effort to understand what they are disagreeing with. i don't know how many ways, or how many times i've said it.  ->-bleeped-<- DOES NOT DEFINE ANY TRANSSEXUAL...PRE-OP, POST-OP OR NON-OP.  ok....one more time...->-bleeped-<- DOES NOT DEFINE ANY TRANSSEXUAL...PRE-OP, POST-OP OR NON-OP.  ->-bleeped-<- defines a man who wishes..wants to...present himself entirely female...often breasts are involved...and yet WANTS to retain his penis.  he doesn't retain it because of any other reason then that HE WANTS TO.  yes, i am absolutely aware of the fact that one's gender identity is generated in the brain.  biology can be totally irrelevant to identity.  i had a penis for over a half a century and never believed i was anything but female... i always say and entirely believe..."i was every bit as much a woman the day before surgery as i was the day after."i am intimately aware of the relationship between gender and biology.  when i considered myself non-op ts it wasn't because i WANTED to keep my penis, i most certainly had no use for it, it was because there were factors around surgery that i felt precluded me from being a good candidate...many factors...none was the desire for a penis.

why is it that people want to be contentious instead of trying to understand what is being said?  argue first, figure out what you're arguing with later.  just doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

sometimes i think that people who take the use of the term too personally may actually have a relationship with their penis that they don't want to admit to.  if the term doesn't define you, why such personal offense?  why so irrationally defensive about it?

I understand what you were saying pennyjane, and yes I have been reading your posts in this topic.  The indirect sarcasm isn't appreciated either.  You kept the can of worms open by keeping the discussion of '->-bleeped-<-' going, and so I must offer a rebuttal once again.

First, let me be clear: I don't have a penis, I have a clitoris.  I like my clitoris, and I wish to keep it the way it is.  No, the term ->-bleeped-<- doesn't define who I am, but I take offense because I feel it is being used towards people like me who don't get SRS and keep their "penis" as you say.  Again, let me be clear: It's not a penis, it's a clitoris, and I have the right to rename it as such.  I don't consider myself non-op, post-op (despite being 5 days post-op), ts, tg, whatever...I'm a woman.  However, one could say that I fit your definition of a ->-bleeped-<- and say "that's a man" and mis-read my gender completely and judge me without even asking me how I identify.

I'm highly offended by the word, it was created by men in the porn industry to misrepresent all of us in the community.  I have to ask: WHY do we use it???  Once again, can we please just stop using the term ->-bleeped-<- completely, there really is no need to keep discussing it!

Jenn

There is no hard and fast line between these places, they are but stops, milemarkers on a journey, and not all of us are on the same path.  Not even close.  What are good choices for some may be wrong for others, we've all seen that in our lives regarding a wide range of issues and events, why would it not be true about this also?


Porn, porn, porn - poor little victims of the industry, big bad porn picks on transgender people.  What?  Wait, there are lots of other porn categories also?  Hundreds you say?  There is smoking porn and balloon porn (I don't get it either, at least the balloon deal).  Most ages, all races - arab porn, desi porn, young, MILF and Old, like granny old, who knew?  It's been around so long that there is 'classic' porn from the 70s&80s, and 'vintage' porn for stuff 1960 and before.  Rumor has it that the Roman's were pretty darn fond of it too.  There is porn for clothing, from shoes, to nylons, schoolgirls, goth girls, nurses, nuns, bras and panties, uniforms for miles, and business drag.  There are dungeons, yachts, and jungle settings.  The list is really amazing.  Yeah, there are types of transgender porn too.  Unless you seem to think that it somehow is dwarfing gay, lesbian (known as girl on girl), and straight porn (yes, its rumored that even straight people have their own porn), I don't think you can single yourself out as a victim.

Turns out, that - for reasons still unknown to medical science - lots of people (mostly male) seem to like looking at pictures of nekked persons.  Or nekked persons doing things, while thinking 'Gee, if somebody did that to me I'd be so happy!"

But, all god's children got their porn.  The guy with all the copies of Road and Track and Car and Driver all over the house when all he drives is some Toyota with tricked out wheels?  Car porn.

Materialistic porn, as a matter of fact, is widespread.  From Fashion mags, to the car rags, to the bewildering number of catalogs out there, which is just people sitting around looking at something and thinking "Gee, if I had that in my life I'd be so happy."

Of course violence is the real American porn.  From war movies to slasher films, to cop shows - we love a homicide.  Which is a lot sicker than liking naughty pictures when you get down to cases. 

Really, if a movie opened up and sucked you into it would you rather it be a porno, Apocypse Now, or Alien?  If the choice is between opening your eyes on that boat on the river in Viet Nam, or thinking? "Gee, your Sigourney Weaver and this sure looks familiar, and damn, this isn't going to end well is it?" or say, Big She-Male Spanking Surprise. Well its not much of a choice is it?

Its just all a matter of choice, preference, styles, time in your life, your life period and all that stuff in the mix that allows people to choose what is right for them.  Not all people transition.  Simple as that.  Reasons may vary and they do.  But what's it to any of us? 

Why should anyone's personal choice in the matter be of personal concern to any of us?

I don't think anyone's choice makes a difference in our ability to choose, except that it might only serve to expand it.  While I don't think that it needs to be expounded upon in a militant tone people sometimes take that on as a way of asserting their view, and reassuring themselves about their choices.

And in that vain, leave the She-Males alone.  Some choose to go that way, and who are we to define what they should or should not be - or how they should call themselves?

The beliefs we have about ourselves - our identity beliefs - are emotions that we experience. The words we use to describe them to ourselves and others are narratives, socially approved justifications. Our emotional beliefs about ourselves are far more powerful than the words.

Many persons suffering under the burden of a personally-experienced identity that does not match an identity category that is acceptable in our society are unhappy. That unhappiness is how societies impose conformity to social "norms". Much of the pain experienced by gender disphoric persons is that pain or fear of social humiliation. This is evident in several of the posts above and can be seen between the lines and often in the words of any thread discussing this topic. We are all subject to it.

I think the pressure to find an acceptable identity narrative is stronger when one is young. Try to tell a 16 yo daughter what clothes she can or can not wear to school. When a person lives with identity disphoria for many years their mind finds other ways of relieving that pressure and making it bearable. Personalities can gradually mold around any injury and lessen its effect. Some just become desensitized. You find friends who stick with you over the years.

But we all have the right and duty to feel as good as we can about ourselves. That means we all have the right to adopt a narrative or physical appearance (or anatomy if we wish) and declare our self as "normal" in our own eyes. No-one has the right to condemn anyone for following their own path to reach that state of mind. There is no need to make others feel bad about themselves who are not on your same path. (Who don't share your same narrative.) When you do that it is an indication that you are insecure on the path you have chosen - and it can be very hurtful to others.

There is nothing "essential" about the narratives we adopt. They are just words. The only essential parts are the emotions inside us that cause us to seek comfort from them. But, we should seek that comfort without hurting others.

Added on edit: These are just some thoughts I had from following the discussion this far. They are general ideas I have had about these things and not directed at anyone here.

a rose is a rose.....but i don't remember ever even inferring you or anyone else might be a ->-bleeped-<-.  perhaps you have been reading my posts but clearly it goes right over your head.  again...jeeeezzzzz  outta here.....back with the women!

Quote from: pennyjane on October 05, 2008, 12:12:57 PM
a rose is a rose.....but i don't remember ever even inferring you or anyone else might be a ->-bleeped-<-.  perhaps you have been reading my posts but clearly it goes right over your head.  again...jeeeezzzzz  outta here.....back with the women!

I'm reading your posts pennyjane and I'm clearly understanding what you're saying.  I'm reading between the lines and you are spewing hate speech about those who don't undergo SRS, and it's disgusting!
 
First you insult my intelligence, and now you question my identity as a woman by saying "jeeeezzzz outta here...back with the women"?!?!  How DARE you!  I'm done with this conversation!  Consider yourself ignored.

Jenn

Disclaimer: Unfortunately, this reply will be modified a bit because of how I talk. I'm a very raw individual and I don't believe in censorship. However, I'm abiding by the rules given that some are more sensitive than others. Forgive if I slip up, but I'm only human. With that said....

So, I don't post very often but things like this, I have BIG problem with. First of all, for those of you that are trying to say if a person doesn't have SRS surgery a person isn't trans.....get off your high horse! Honestly, being that this is SUPPOSED to be a unified community with non-judgement,...I thank you for ruining all that we stand for. Give yourself a round of applause! I don't see anyone in here that has the right to justify ANYTHING for another human being. It would be equivalent to a religious extremist  casting judgement on you about whatever and saying "We welcome anyone to our growing community and family" Contradicting right?!

Anyone ever hear of "live and let live?". I'm sure we all have. Why should it matter to anyone else but that person what they define themselves as? As long as they are a part of this community and respect others it shouldn't matter at all. For those that are trying to defend what you believe, this is also to you. Being the person I am, I don't feel the need to "prove" anything to anyone. If someone tries to prove that you aren't "trans enough", tell them to shove it. That may sound harsh, but if they have the ...guts, to say things like that then they can deal with the consequences. After that, keep on doing what you are doing. It makes the person "casting the first stone" look incredibly dumb.

My overall opinion: For people trying to prove no trans enough, shove it
For the people trying to defend themselves: Don't even worry about it, just keep it moving

My very last little bit is, I'm sure I'll get a reply saying some of what I say isn't "called for" or rude. I'm not here to baby anyone, I'm just spitting my opinion out there the way I am. You have a problem with it, I personally do not care. I will listen to what you have to say, but I will never tone what I say down. Thank you,have a wonderful day!