I ran across this book in the trans section of my local LGBT bookstore and flipped through it a little. I read several things I didn't like, so I didn't buy it. When I came home, I checked out the Amazon reviews, which were mostly positive. I tended to agree with one of the two-star reviewers about what rubbed me the wrong way, but of course I had only read small passages. At the moment, I'm not willing to buy the book just for the sake of reading it. I'd like to hear what y'all think.

If you've read the book, what did you think of it, and why?

Quote from: Arch on October 04, 2008, 01:38:22 PM
I ran across this book in the trans section of my local LGBT bookstore and flipped through it a little. I read several things I didn't like, so I didn't buy it. When I came home, I checked out the Amazon reviews, which were mostly positive. I tended to agree with one of the two-star reviewers about what rubbed me the wrong way, but of course I had only read small passages. At the moment, I'm not willing to buy the book just for the sake of reading it. I'd like to hear what y'all think.

If you've read the book, what did you think of it, and why?

I just had somebody suggest that I pick it up, and pass it along to my GP (doctor), I havent read it.

What about it turned you off?

I am very interested to know, since I do not want to give it to someone and then have them develope a biased opinion.

Quote from: Arch on October 04, 2008, 01:38:22 PM
If you've read the book, what did you think of it, and why?

I didn't care for it much, however a lot of people do seem to find it helpful. It's been way too long since I read it to remember exactly what I didn't like, probably that it was a bit on the clinical side and coming from a binary ideology. Suffice it to say that the more radical books such as Kate Bornstein's Gender Outlaw or Leslie Feinberg's books had more of an impact for me.

Zythyra

I originally thought that the title of this topic was "Anybody not read "True Selves"?"
This tends to be the #1 recommended book to read for a general audience.
It's been a while since I read it. I liked the stories and the sample letters in it.
I've heard a few people complain about some aspects of it, but I don't remember which.
Maybe I need to give it a re-read.

I read it a long time ago. Didn't much like it. Some bits were good, but for me they were outweighed by the dated-ness of it, and a whole section devoted to "why are they this way" that was just too general for people not to pick bits out and take them as truth, without taking it in context. I gave it to my mum, who somehow picked out something that supported her saying "so this is all my fault?"

Dennis

Quote from: Jesslee on October 04, 2008, 02:27:32 PM
What about it turned you off?

I am very interested to know, since I do not want to give it to someone and then have them develope a biased opinion.

I saw the paperback version, which was published in 2003. However, this edition is APPARENTLY just a reprint, NOT a revision, of a much older hardcover edition that was published in 1996. Therefore, the book is based on an outdated version of the WPATH/Harry Benjamin SOC. Not to mention that other things have changed in the last twelve years.

One thing that I found extremely irritating (as did the Amazon reviewer that I referred to) has to do with the SOC. The authors seem to be begging the question on this subject. As near as I could tell, this book staunchly defends a slavish adherence to the SOC (as I said, it's apparently an outdated SOC), with the reasoning that the Standards work and result in successful transitions, so they must be good. I'm sorry, but this is simply circular reasoning. You're gonna have to do better than that.

The book also seemed to pathologize so-called GID and (perhaps unintentionally and perhaps inconsistently) essentialize trans/HBS experiences. One passage said something to the effect that, due to their non-cisgender status, some folks suffer from depression and instability for the rest of their lives, or something like that. I might have been taking the passage out of context, so don't quote me on that.

As Zythyra points out on this thread, the book seems to be coming from a binary ideology. I got this impression not from one or two passages but several.

The authors seemed to be signally incapable of referring to people by the correct pronouns. I found this infuriating as well as confusing.

(I could swear that they said that RLT is supposed to be pre-HRT, but I've looked at a few sample pages online and can't find any such reference. I might be mistaken, or maybe it was an error or typo in one passage.)

There might have been one or two other things, but I can't remember now. And since I inferred all of these things after a ten-minute perusal while I was hungry, I can't be sure of how objective I was.

This book is available at my alma mater library, where I have extensive borrowing privileges, so I think I'll check it out and read it. I don't know when I'll get around to that. But when I do, I'll take some careful notes and report back. I will, of course, be operating from my own transguy, pre-transition perspective (I assume that I'll still be pre-transition), but I am a pretty decent critical reader with degrees in literature and English, as well as a strong background in LGBT studies. I think I'll give the book a fair shake.

I notice that the book's subtitle targets the book to "Families, Friends, Coworkers, and Helping Professionals" but does not explicitly mention actual transpeople/HBS folks. I've now read a lot of the Amazon reviews, and so far I haven't found too many reviewers who explicitly identify themselves as trans/HBS folks. I haven't read all of the five-star reviews, so maybe there are more transfolks there.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Keep it comin'.

My Therapsit suggested I get it, read it and pass it onto my folks.

I didnt mind the book, it was the first transgender book I've read that wasn't "novel/autobiographical" type. So I liked the outsider perspective. Even though there was alot in the book I felt for outdated and plain wrong, I still thought it was a good read. And when I get the guts up I will pass it onto my folks

Bought it,

Read it,

Marked it up,

Passed it along.

It wasn't the best of books but that's probably because it wasn't written by us.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,39691.0.html

Quote from: trapthavok on October 06, 2008, 12:11:19 AM
Bought it,

Read it,

Marked it up,

Passed it along.

It wasn't the best of books but that's probably because it wasn't written by us.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,39691.0.html

Boy, that's weird. I thought this might have been one of the books you were talking about awhile back, so I did a search for the book title, but nothing came up. This is the second search I've done recently that came up with nothing when there should have been--and was--something to find. Must've been broken.

I'm definitely going to check this out of the library and not buy a copy.

How about this one: Vanderburgh's Transition and Beyond? It's not in my uni library system, so I went ahead and ordered it. But I would love to hear from anyone who has read it.

Phase Two...

Quote from: Arch on October 06, 2008, 12:23:39 AM

Quote from: trapthavok on October 06, 2008, 12:11:19 AM
Bought it,

Read it,

Marked it up,

Passed it along.

It wasn't the best of books but that's probably because it wasn't written by us.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,39691.0.html

Boy, that's weird. I thought this might have been one of the books you were talking about awhile back, so I did a search for the book title, but nothing came up. This is the second search I've done recently that came up with nothing when there should have been--and was--something to find. Must've been broken.

I'm definitely going to check this out of the library and not buy a copy.

How about this one: Vanderburgh's Transition and Beyond? It's not in my uni library system, so I went ahead and ordered it. But I would love to hear from anyone who has read it.

Phase Two...

No big, man!! I was just way too tired last night to summarize how I felt about the book, so I linked it. In some respects it is crap, but so far it's the only book I've found that may give my mom half an idea of what being transsexual is like... Plus like I said I added my own notes on how certain passages did or did not relate to me in the margins of the book.

Let me know how you like Transition and Beyond. I've never heard of it, I'll have to look it up.

In other books, I've got FTM, Female To Male Transsexual in Society checked out right now, and I read Just Add Hormones last time I was on the job (I work at my school's library!) The first is a HUGE book so I'm not going to finish it anytime soon but it reads like an encyclopedia lol. The second was okay, I liked reading about the author's transition, but it bummed me out some on stuff I was already down about to begin with [lack of a penis, finding a partner/girlfriend/spouse/whatever].

I've read better books on the subject.  However, that is the view of someone inside it, as opposed to viewing it from the outside in.  Something I've never cared about at any rate.  So it might work for that.

Quote from: trapthavok on October 06, 2008, 03:50:04 PM
Let me know how you like Transition and Beyond. I've never heard of it, I'll have to look it up.

In other books, I've got FTM, Female To Male Transsexual in Society checked out right now, and I read Just Add Hormones last time I was on the job (I work at my school's library!) The first is a HUGE book so I'm not going to finish it anytime soon but it reads like an encyclopedia lol. The second was okay, I liked reading about the author's transition, but it bummed me out some on stuff I was already down about to begin with [lack of a penis, finding a partner/girlfriend/spouse/whatever].

I'll definitely report back on the Vanderburgh as well. The author is both a therapist and a man who has completed his transition, so I expect this book to be really good. Some folks might find it a bit pricey at thirty dollars, but a really good book on this topic is worth its weight in gold.

I have a copy of the first book you mentioned (FTM etc.). That's Devor, if I'm not mistaken. I read it when I first bought it, maybe eight or ten years ago, but I don't remember it at all. Maybe I should reread it. I also have a copy of Just Add Hormones. I read it several weeks ago and don't remember it at all, either! But James Green's book is very good. I like it very much.

I think I'll start a separate thread or two about people's favorite trans-related books--AFTER conducting a successful search for such threads.

P.S. Lucky you, Nate, to work in the library.

P.P.S. Tekla, WHAT better books?! Do tell. Inquiring minds want to know.

Kate B.  Gender Outlaws, the first, and last book I've read on the topic that was written by, and for people like her.

Quote from: tekla on October 06, 2008, 05:30:53 PM
Kate B.  Gender Outlaws, the first, and last book I've read on the topic that was written by, and for people like her.

Ah, yes, one of the classics. Been a long time since I read it, though.

Its written 'by and for' which, if you are one, makes it pretty good.

Quote from: Arch on October 06, 2008, 05:20:51 PM
I think I'll start a separate thread or two about people's favorite trans-related books--AFTER conducting a successful search for such threads.

Go for it! I'd read it/post there/check out the books mentioned

I was more impressed by Gender Outlaw when I first read it than I am now. It was one of the first books I read on the subject, when I was new to dealing with it. But now that I've been around the block and have a clearer, fuller understanding of where I'm at with my gender stuff, I don't find Bornstein very helpful any more. I came to understand that I am at home in the binary that she rejects. But yeah, the book does have some brilliant flashes of insight, on the whole though Bornstein's basic premise doesn't work for me.

The really good book I would recommend would be Sex Changes: The Politics of ->-bleeped-<- by Patrick Califia. The new edition came out after he did. He first wrote it as a lesbian urging other lesbians to be trans allies. Then he transitioned and reissued the book in a whole new light. It was interesting, and now it's by one of us.

I think I must have the older edition of Califia, but I'll have to poke around and see. In any event, it will have been years since I've read it. I kinda stopped reading any trans stuff when I went underground, so I'm about eight years out of date. (I wonder what that does to my expiration date?....)

True Selves was required reading by the administration, counselors and other support personel where I teach.  I read it.  Parts ot it were worthwhile.  Parts of it are becomming out of date - especially the causes of transexuality.  Parts of it were hitting too close to home and became painful to read.

Chaunte

A therapist had recommended True Selves to give to my family to read. I read excerpts from it on Amazon.com, I sampled bits and pieces of it from various places in the book, depending on which random samples Amazon let me see online. From what I saw, I said wow this is so excellent, this book really tells it like it is. In a burst of enthusiasm, I ordered copies for my mom, my daughter, and each of my four sisters. I never found out if they ever read any of it.

Then I began to get a different impression from parts that I hadn't read at first. For example, Mildred Brown's observations on transsexual motivations. She passes judgment on who she considers legitimate TS and who she considers deluded... and her criteria for legitimate TS are rather narrow. This could be problematic.

Arch noted above that Brown and Rounsley use the wrong pronouns-- I hadn't noticed this in the samples I read, but that is a serious error! Anyone who does that will lose my respect. It's easy to see why non-transsexual caregivers would promote this book. It reflects their worldview. But what's in it for us?