I've thought about using hormones too, just to the point where my body would be less feminine. But considering the costs, time, and everything else that trying to get hormones would involve, I'm rather try to do everything I can without hormones first, just to see where it'll take me. If later on, I really decide that the results I want can't be achieved without hormones, then I'll look into it again.

Quote from: Shion on October 16, 2008, 06:07:40 PM
I've thought about using hormones too, just to the point where my body would be less feminine. But considering the costs, time, and everything else that trying to get hormones would involve, I'm rather try to do everything I can without hormones first, just to see where it'll take me. If later on, I really decide that the results I want can't be achieved without hormones, then I'll look into it again.

Always the best route in my opinion, to try and do everything you can to feel better (and things that aren't permanent) before you decide on hormones.

I've been doing a few things lately, mostly binding and how I dress, but I still haven't been 'mistaken' for a guy yet. I probably just look andro to some. I need a new haircut, something really really short that maybe I could spike up to help me look a little less female.

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 14, 2008, 02:53:49 PM

Quote from: Nicky on October 14, 2008, 02:30:37 PM
OTC hormones? You mean over the counter?

Unfortunately hormones won't affect your voice. But voice training can achieve stunning

ly unnatural sounding

Quoteresults.

Excuse me?
Sorry, but many, many people have gotten very good results from this.

It may sound female, but it so rarely sounds natural. In training a voice, training it to 'talk proper' or to 'talk woman' or whatever, a degree of imperfection and naturalness goes.

I've not heard many people who have had any voice training (or any kind) that I did not want to check for plug sockets/battery holes.

So every decent one you have heard, you thought was faked?

Just because you don't believe it, does not mean it's not real. Besides, I have heard some genetic women who sounded awfully manly. Not everyone sounds like Betty Boop.

No, I meant that all trained voice, all trained voice sounds mannered and if you listen to people, you hear the mannered quality.

I know some very gruff voiced females (my friend debbie's mum used to very much alarm me when i was very little) but the difference was that their voices, but more importantly their inflections and such, were there own, not something learned or mannered.

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 18, 2008, 02:25:18 PM
No, I meant that all trained voice, all trained voice sounds mannered and if you listen to people, you hear the mannered quality.

I know some very gruff voiced females (my friend debbie's mum used to very much alarm me when i was very little) but the difference was that their voices, but more importantly their inflections and such, were there own, not something learned or mannered.

I disagree with you.

It sounds like your saying people should not bother changing their voice because people will pick it despite the fact that there a numerous examples of people developing successful natural sounding voices in their target gender. It just takes practise and time. Perhaps at first they have a mannered quality but time tends to fix that.

I just wonder why someone would want to swap their voice for a mannered and trained voice for any reason. Be they androgyne, MtF or an actor trying to drop their home accent.

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 19, 2008, 03:44:23 PM
I just wonder why someone would want to swap their voice for a mannered and trained voice for any reason. Be they androgyne, MtF or an actor trying to drop their home accent.

Maybe because their natural voice causes dysphoria and discomfort. For some transgender/androgyne male bodied persons, the voice is as important to alter as the rest their bodies.
Not everyone has a voice like yours.
Relax, baby.

Quote from: Nero on October 19, 2008, 04:49:47 PM
Not everyone has a voice like yours.
Relax, baby.

Smooth Nero, smooth   

Good reply.

Quote from: Pica Pica on October 19, 2008, 03:44:23 PM
I just wonder why someone would want to swap their voice for a mannered and trained voice for any reason. Be they androgyne, MtF or an actor trying to drop their home accent.

Maybe because society frowns on looking like a woman and sounding like Mr.T.

I pity the fool who doesn't want Mr T's voice, be they any gender.

Anyway this is primarily about t'androgynes - society frowns on male bodies who speak in a breathy marilyn monroe voice.

I'm realising that my voice is one of those things that are intrinsic to me, and I will never see why anyone would want to alter it, but that's just my own blindness more than anything else. It's nice to know in some ways, the things I value about myself...

I reckon there's a poll their somewhere.

Is there a way to make facial features more feminine that wouldn't involve surgery or hormones?

Quote from: dina_hastings on October 21, 2008, 07:50:28 PM
Is there a way to make facial features more feminine that wouldn't involve surgery or hormones?

I think your options include:

Adjusting your facial hair - plucking, shaping, lasering, electolysising
Changing your haircut can make a big difference to your face
Make-up can make a huge difference. Takes a bit of technique and practise but it is doable.
Use moisturiser, oitments, lotions and potions to make your skin appear more youthful and softer

If you have the dosh - collagin injections in your cheeks and lips, and botox to remove and masculine wrinkles. Not sure if you consider that sugury or not but they 'wear off'.

Wearing earings can change people's perception of your face too. Actually perception counts for a lot. Lead them so far and they tend to fill in the blanks themselves. I think this is why confidence is a really big aspect in passing for transexuals.

I suppose facial expressions could make a difference too - smiling more, forwning less. Might be a bit stereotypical but it might count for somthing

Quote from: dina_hastings on September 26, 2008, 09:19:12 PM
Has anyone here currently or previously used hormone treatment in order to help them be androgynous? Would they recommend it or not, and why?

I had an orchiectomy and now take estrogen, as well as anti-androgens.  I always looked androgynous, but as I got to be in my early twenties I started to become more masculine and I didn't want to get any worse.  I am very pleased with my hormones and what they have done for me, though I will have to take them for life and they can be expensive.  I definitely recommend them, at least in those who are highly masculine (or feminine) and need to tone that down to appear more androgynous.

Quote from: ChrisSuperstar on November 19, 2008, 02:04:11 PM

Quote from: dina_hastings on September 26, 2008, 09:19:12 PM
Has anyone here currently or previously used hormone treatment in order to help them be androgynous? Would they recommend it or not, and why?

I had an orchiectomy and now take estrogen, as well as anti-androgens.  I always looked androgynous, but as I got to be in my early twenties I started to become more masculine and I didn't want to get any worse.  I am very pleased with my hormones and what they have done for me, though I will have to take them for life and they can be expensive.  I definitely recommend them, at least in those who are highly masculine (or feminine) and need to tone that down to appear more androgynous.

If you dont mind me asking, orchiectomy or orchidectomy?

Quote from: dina_hastings on November 19, 2008, 11:58:58 PM

Quote from: ChrisSuperstar on November 19, 2008, 02:04:11 PM

Quote from: dina_hastings on September 26, 2008, 09:19:12 PM
Has anyone here currently or previously used hormone treatment in order to help them be androgynous? Would they recommend it or not, and why?

I had an orchiectomy and now take estrogen, as well as anti-androgens.  I always looked androgynous, but as I got to be in my early twenties I started to become more masculine and I didn't want to get any worse.  I am very pleased with my hormones and what they have done for me, though I will have to take them for life and they can be expensive.  I definitely recommend them, at least in those who are highly masculine (or feminine) and need to tone that down to appear more androgynous.

Orchiectomy.  Both terms mean the same thing, but "orchidectomy" seems to be used in the UK sometimes.

If you dont mind me asking, orchiectomy or orchidectomy?

Really? I thought orchiectomy meant to remove one, and orchidectomy to remove both.

Quote from: dina_hastings on November 20, 2008, 08:20:44 PM
Really? I thought orchiectomy meant to remove one, and orchidectomy to remove both.

Not as far as I know.  Just "bilateral" orchiectomy, and "unilateral."  Just removing one wouldn't have any effect on hormone levels.

Time to introduce you to my little friend again.

Voice Training

The voice is very important at least just as important as your appearance if you are going to be credible to the folks you interact with everyday. I am only a small person so I never really had a very deep voice. the mode of exercises I used to bring my voice up closer to sounding like that of a feminine quality I just did mostly by humming tunes to myself, I could also hum tunes no mater where I was without bringing much attention. Below is a you tube video of voice training, I liked it, I thought it was pretty good way to train your voice.


http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=s7qSJ19f_QU&feature=related